Apple: Rumors of EV to Challenge Tesla or Buying Tesla

[AlMc]

Thanks for the insight Maven.

Consumers don't understand all this, naturally, but they do understand "it just works, well". I know all the Apple haters laugh at this, yet here I am writing this from an iPhone that rarely (bordering on never) crashes.

I would really be interested in an Apple car.

Better still....A joint venture vehicle from TM/Apple.

 

[jbcarioca]

It puzzles me slightly that all this talk is about Apple rather than Google. Google already has the relationship, already is the supplier. One way or another we'll certainly be more likely to see Google than we would Apple.

 

[Johan]

It puzzles me slightly that all this talk is about Apple rather than Google. Google already has the relationship, already is the supplier. One way or another we'll certainly be more likely to see Google than we would Apple.

Google is mainly a software company. Apple sells physical objects and have their strengths in industrial design and manufacturing. That's why.

 

[techmaven]

It puzzles me slightly that all this talk is about Apple rather than Google. Google already has the relationship, already is the supplier. One way or another we'll certainly be more likely to see Google than we would Apple.

Several reasons. Google already has an autonomous driving project and we've seen some of their efforts so far. We haven't seen what Apple is working on, but we do know a slew of the hires. Also, Google is fundamentally a services company and Apple is a product company, even though both are attempting to blur those lines. Add the $200 billion in cash that Apple has on hand, and we have the perfect recipe for rumor mongering. Tesla's all in cost to bring the Model 3 to market is probably well under $10 billion. In many cases, the hires that Apple has done points directly to an BEV vehicle product offering. It might not come to pass, but it is definitely intriguing.

 

[DriverOne]

It puzzles me slightly that all this talk is about Apple rather than Google. /QUOTE]

Because this is the Apple thread...

 

[mspohr]

Google is mainly a software company. Apple sells physical objects and have their strengths in industrial design and manufacturing. That's why.

Apple doesn't manufacture anything.
They do great design of electronic devices but all manufacturing is contracted out and the contractors do all of the procurement, etc. Apple could take the same route with the car (hence the BMW speculation) but I don't see how BMW would benefit from being a contract manufacturer for Apple and I suspect that the corporate cultures of BMW and Apple are sufficiently different that they would never work well together in a partnership.

 

[Johan]

Apple doesn't manufacture anything.
They do great design of electronic devices but all manufacturing is contracted out and the contractors do all of the procurement, etc. Apple could take the same route with the car (hence the BMW speculation) but I don't see how BMW would benefit from being a contract manufacturer for Apple and I suspect that the corporate cultures of BMW and Apple are sufficiently different that they would never work well together in a partnership.

They don't manufacture, true. But is that important? Tesla doesn't manufacture battery cells either - Panasonic does. In the Gigafactory (to my understanding) it will still be Panasonic per se doing the manufacturing. I still think of the Tesla car battery packs as Tesla products though, as well as the Powerwall/Powerpacks.

 

[aesculus]

I suspect that the corporate cultures of BMW and Apple are sufficiently different that they would never work well together in a partnership.

You mean like Apple and IBM? I seems like they know how to work with different cultures already.

 

[mspohr]

You mean like Apple and IBM? I seems like they know how to work with different cultures already.

Apple and IBM? ... what do they do together?
The only thing I could find was something to have IBM sell iPads.

 

[tkizzy]

They use assembly lines in China, but to say they don't manufacture anything is false. Every single part of the assembly line is under their control. Apple take into consideration manufacturing and other constraints during the course of product design. Also, while they might contract the "sourcing" of some pretty standard materials, Apple are renowned for their supply chain management, and have been known to switch to backup suppliers on a dime for whatever reason. Make no mistake, Apple are known for great hardware because.... they make great hardware a cut above the rest, and to say they're not responsible for their products is just...silly.

 

[mspohr]

They use assembly lines in China, but to say they don't manufacture anything is false. Every single part of the assembly line is under their control. Apple take into consideration manufacturing and other constraints during the course of product design. Also, while they might contract the "sourcing" of some pretty standard materials, Apple are renowned for their supply chain management, and have been known to switch to backup suppliers on a dime for whatever reason. Make no mistake, Apple are known for great hardware because.... they make great hardware a cut above the rest, and to say they're not responsible for their products is just...silly.

I didn't say they weren't responsible for their products.
I said they didn't manufacture their products. They don't own factories or hire people to work in them. They do design products and specify how they will be built but that's very different than actually building things.
How about a car analogy? What company designs and specifies cars but doesn't have a factory to build the cars?... I can't think of one (but there may be some small specialty car designers who do this). It's several orders of magnitude difference to go from "design and specify" to actually building and running a factory with all of the supply chain implications.

 

[Fiver]

Apple will use Tesla tech. Apple's car, (if it does happen) will use be able to use the Tesla supercharger network as well.

A tiny fraction of Apple's nearly bottomless pockets will be used to promote EV's, and it will get more press coverage then everything Tesla has ever done combined, because.... Apple.

It's literally the worlds largest brand, and when they do stuff, people all over the world know about it. They will bring EV to the masses in a way Elon could only dream about. Tesla will be there riding the publicity coat-tails and making as many cars as they can to keep up with the huge amount of interest Apple will create for all EV's.

 

[TEG]

Apple will use Tesla tech. Apple's car, (if it does happen) will use be able to use the Tesla supercharger network as well.

A tiny fraction of Apple's nearly bottomless pockets will be used to promote EV's, and it will get more press coverage then everything Tesla has ever done combined, because.... Apple.

It's literally the worlds largest brand, and when they do stuff, people all over the world know about it. They will bring EV to the masses in a way Elon could only dream about. Tesla will be there riding the publicity coat-tails and making as many cars as they can to keep up with the huge amount of interest Apple will create for all EV's.

You say this speculatively, or with some knowledge of what is really happening?

 

[pGo]

I didn't say they weren't responsible for their products.
I said they didn't manufacture their products. They don't own factories or hire people to work in them. They do design products and specify how they will be built but that's very different than actually building things.
How about a car analogy? What company designs and specifies cars but doesn't have a factory to build the cars?... I can't think of one (but there may be some small specialty car designers who do this). It's several orders of magnitude difference to go from "design and specify" to actually building and running a factory with all of the supply chain implications.

Heard of Magna Steyr?

Magna May Become the Foxconn of Cars Morgan Stanley - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

Apple has many options including Foxconn to help them manufacture cars. When Elon first visited china, there was some statements from Foxconn executives showing interest in car manufacturing. I am not sure what path Apple will take if they are to build an EV, however they are capable to figure it out.

 

[tkizzy]

Also, Apple do have a homegrown manufacturing presence in the States, albeit a small one (mostly for the Mac Pro and some of the silicon). Historically they have had pretty nifty manufacturing facilities that were ahead of their time, one of which was in Fremont actually.

Also Apple have designed from scratch some of the tooling for their Chinese assembly lines. Many of the processes are strictly theirs. The reasons they conduct their manufacturing in China are primarily related to labor costs. It's my understanding, however, that in certain facilities and tooling, the likes of their Chinese factory partners are second to none.

Point being that "lack of manufacturing experience" is unlikely to be a valid reason for Apple not manufacturing a car, whether they build stateside factories from scratch or not.

Sidenote: If Apple were to have a Chinese partnered manufacturing network for a car, the adoption of EVs would skyrocket in China! Knockoffs would abound (sometimes using the same parts)!

 

[woof]

Apple and IBM? ... what do they do together?
The only thing I could find was something to have IBM sell iPads.

Apple has partnered with IBM to build mobile enterprise applications. They can be installed outside the Apple App store, and customized per buyer.
See Apple - Business - Mobile Enterprise Apps - Cross Industry

 

[Fiver]

Apple has partnered with IBM to build mobile enterprise applications. They can be installed outside the Apple App store, and customized per buyer.
See Apple - Business - Mobile Enterprise Apps - Cross Industry

Apple, IBM and Motorola together built the PowerPC architecture... That was a big deal for almost 2 decades.

 

[vinnie97]

Some day this whole Apple/Tesla rumor will die. Until then, it's got more legs than a centipede.

The day can't come soon enough.

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You say this speculatively, or with some knowledge of what is really happening?

Drunk-on-Kool-Aid wishful thinking!

 

[RobStark]

Heard of Magna Steyr?

Magna May Become the Foxconn of Cars Morgan Stanley - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

Apple has many options including Foxconn to help them manufacture cars. When Elon first visited china, there was some statements from Foxconn executives showing interest in car manufacturing. I am not sure what path Apple will take if they are to build an EV, however they are capable to figure it out.

I have heard of Magna Steyr and no OEM outsources more than 5% of their volume to them.

They handle overflow demand. And their entire capacity is spoken for at least for the next 7 years.

No OEM outsources significant amount of their final assembly.

Foxconn has zero experience manufacturing cars. They have similar experience in appliances and electronics but none in automotive and it will be a steep learning curve.

Allegedly, Apple wants to sell a premium car.

Made by Foxconn in Taiwan?

Valmet of Finland only has capacity of 70-100k cars and wants out of the car manufacturing business.

I am sure Apple can figure it out but it can't play dozen of manufactures against each other to get prices that allow only razor thin margins for the contract manufacturer.

Shipping cost per iPhone or iPad is a tiny amount relative to the total cost of the electronic device.

Shipping cost for an entire car from Asia to the North America or Europe is relatively large.

It would add at least 8-20% of the cost.

 

[mspohr]

Heard of Magna Steyr?

Magna May Become the Foxconn of Cars Morgan Stanley - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ

Apple has many options including Foxconn to help them manufacture cars. When Elon first visited china, there was some statements from Foxconn executives showing interest in car manufacturing. I am not sure what path Apple will take if they are to build an EV, however they are capable to figure it out.

Yes, I've heard of them. They are a large auto parts manufacturer who do a small assembly line for specialty cars. Interesting speculation but not likely in the face of current overcapacity in most auto manufacturing plants.