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are insurance companies dropping folks with Tesla powerwalls?
- Thread starter h2ofun
- Start date
Matt-FL
Member
I've heard some folks in Florida were having issues with solar + insurance, but I think it is just some insurance companies looking to exit the market and finding any excuse. (I'm in Florida myself).
My insurance company renewed just earlier this month, they added special coverage for my solar + powerwalls, instead of the usual 'increase the rebuild amount'. Now they are fully covered in case something only happens to just them and not the entire house, which is great.
My insurance company renewed just earlier this month, they added special coverage for my solar + powerwalls, instead of the usual 'increase the rebuild amount'. Now they are fully covered in case something only happens to just them and not the entire house, which is great.
We already know many have lost their first insurance in California, especially in the sierra foothills area where I live.
The owner of the company who made the comment is one very very smart old timer, so I would be shocked he would say something like this without first hand talking to folks. With 7 powerwalls at my house, this would be huge. I had a multi million dollar claim 5 years back, so no insurance is not an option.
EVRider-FL
Active Member
I think insurance companies are more concerned about solar panels than Powerwalls, probably because of roof integrity and possible storm damage. Why would Powerwalls be an insurance issue?
Probably only those with more than five powerwalls, per the State insurance Commissioner, due to the added fire risk, don't you think?
Oh wait, what about those of us with powerwalls and generators? Or worse propane tanks on the property? Or worse yet high pressure natural gas or wood heating? Or worst of all heat pumps? Or lakeside homes prone to landslides and flooding?
All kidding aside, the global reinsurance companies took a bath 2018-2021, (the usual events covered in all the old books; drought, famine, flood, plague, wildfire, and hurricanes) and have raised rates to those that they insure, aka consumer facing insurance companies, who are now passing on those rate increases to us consumers. The insurance companies are also going over their portfolios reassessing the risks of their insured (us). There are a bunch of things that they have "found", I suspect via prodding from the reinsurance companies, namely most consumers are grossly underinsured, and for many customers, their rates don't reflect elevated risks now known more clearly, e.g. weather events (e.g. tropical storm Hilary and other extreme weather events), wildfires (the Santa Rosa and Louisville/Denver fires caused a number of insurers to rethink to whom wildfire risk applies), and the impacts of poor grid infrastructure. Many insurers have quit writing new policies, and several have outright canceled insurance for some of their customers. At some point, some people and some places have such elevated risks, that they can't be profitably insured by normal insurance companies. (Due to oversight by state regulators regulating rates. No profits means no insurance.)
Low insurance rates are over in my view. I expect more folks to be on policies from insurers of last resort, with deductibles high enough to wipe them out if an event happens. I lived through a "1,000 year flood event" once, and it showed me how fast you can go from "normal" to house and hillside eating water flows (less than a day). There are a whole bunch of places that you won't catch me living in as a result.
I think that if you can mitigate your local risks and demonstrate it to your insurance company, I would not wait to put on that all metal roof, rewire with new wiring and a new main service panel, repipe the house with new pipes, install a fire resistant deck, add fire resistant windows, move your powerwalls to a freestanding concrete wall away from the house, and get the shrubs away from your house. Those are all items that my insurer has asked about and for. (Ok, not to move the Powerwalls.) YMMV, but not by a lot I suspect.
Just my $0.02, and I really, really doubt that Powerwalls will be grounds for cancelations; it is such small beer compared to location, shake roofs, wood siding, decorative wood fences, old water pipes, space heaters, hot air clothes dryers, and old wiring (in the house and in the local grid).
@h2ofun was your multimillion dollar claim against a contractor, or against your own insurance company?
All the best,
BG
I have a gravel truck lose its break coming down my hill and hit the side of the house. Took 2 years to get hazmat settled and like a million bucks since they dumped 150 gallons of diesel into the ground. Then took another 3 years to rebuild the house. We love it now, but, if I just had not called for a load of pea gravel, I would have no solar or powerwalls or generator, etc.Probably only those with more than five powerwalls, per the State insurance Commissioner, due to the added fire risk, don't you think?
Oh wait, what about those of us with powerwalls and generators? Or worse propane tanks on the property? Or worse yet high pressure natural gas or wood heating? Or worst of all heat pumps? Or lakeside homes prone to landslides and flooding?
All kidding aside, the global reinsurance companies took a bath 2018-2021, (the usual events covered in all the old books; drought, famine, flood, plague, wildfire, and hurricanes) and have raised rates to those that they insure, aka consumer facing insurance companies, who are now passing on those rate increases to us consumers. The insurance companies are also going over their portfolios reassessing the risks of their insured (us). There are a bunch of things that they have "found", I suspect via prodding from the reinsurance companies, namely most consumers are grossly underinsured, and for many customers, their rates don't reflect elevated risks now known more clearly, e.g. weather events (e.g. tropical storm Hilary and other extreme weather events), wildfires (the Santa Rosa and Louisville/Denver fires caused a number of insurers to rethink to whom wildfire risk applies), and the impacts of poor grid infrastructure. Many insurers have quit writing new policies, and several have outright canceled insurance for some of their customers. At some point, some people and some places have such elevated risks, that they can't be profitably insured by normal insurance companies. (Due to oversight by state regulators regulating rates. No profits means no insurance.)
Low insurance rates are over in my view. I expect more folks to be on policies from insurers of last resort, with deductibles high enough to wipe them out if an event happens. I lived through a "1,000 year flood event" once, and it showed me how fast you can go from "normal" to house and hillside eating water flows (less than a day). There are a whole bunch of places that you won't catch me living in as a result.
I think that if you can mitigate your local risks and demonstrate it to your insurance company, I would not wait to put on that all metal roof, rewire with new wiring and a new main service panel, repipe the house with new pipes, install a fire resistant deck, add fire resistant windows, move your powerwalls to a freestanding concrete wall away from the house, and get the shrubs away from your house. Those are all items that my insurer has asked about and for. (Ok, not to move the Powerwalls.) YMMV, but not by a lot I suspect.
Just my $0.02, and I really, really doubt that Powerwalls will be grounds for cancelations; it is such small beer compared to location, shake roofs, wood siding, decorative wood fences, old water pipes, space heaters, hot air clothes dryers, and old wiring (in the house and in the local grid).
@h2ofun was your multimillion dollar claim against a contractor, or against your own insurance company?
All the best,
BG
But at face value, I sure do not write off his comment, which is why I am asking.
Actually we had money flowing from both insurance companies. At the end, mine went after the trucking co insurance for what they had paid out. So no contractor was involved, just me and the trucking co. Luckily they had a 2 million dollar policy
I realize this is the internet and all, but this is like "Telephone game 101"here....
There are lots of stories of people having difficulty obtaining insurance in general, but if you are going to report on something like this, shouldnt it at the very least be "I talked to my installer and he / she told me... "(one degree of separation, instead of two?)
EVRider-FL
Active Member
I will try to get more info.
No one thought insurance would stop writing fire policies in Calif either, but, ..
This why I asked. with a question mark. I did not say it was fact but I have never know this person, so far, to be wrong on anything. I hope he is this time
I think this is really the core of the question. I know that failure does happen with anything, and once a lithium ion battery fails it sometimes fails catastrophically.
I do not know the numbers on this but from what I know it is very very rare. I know of 1 thermal event from the news, but the product is still going through its life cycle. I do not know what this failure rate will look like as the fleet ages.
How often are their fires in the Sierra foothills that destroy homes? Has not stopped insurance policies from being canceled.
Where I live, we have never ever had a fire, but many have had their insurance canceled.
I wonder if it's higher risk in FL due to flooding. There are plenty of reports of Tesla EV's catching on fire after being flooded.
I'm sorry, but seriously? "How often?" Practically every year... I don't know what you were meaning with that statement.
We visit your neck of the woods pretty frequently and there have been fires around you every few years with great regularity over the last 25 years. There have been numerous fires near you in Cool, Georgetown, Foresthill...all the way up to Tahoe. Almost the entirety of Placer county is at the highest fire hazard rating for California;
Just because your house hasn't burned down every year, doesn't mean it isn't at risk. Paradise (CA) may be 50 miles away, but it is the same geography and ecosystem. I think that any insurer that hasn't twigged to the fire risk of California foothill homes isn't paying attention. Nor do I think that the risk is limited to just California, either. Look at Louisiana, normally one of the wettest states in the union.
With demonstrated fire risks like that, of course policies are not being renewed. There are homes in older cities in California where insurance is not being renewed because the access in and out of neighborhoods are so congested that there aren't practical emergency exit routes. Run or burn. That's not an insurers' dream client, and a horrible thought for residents. At least, like some of the Lahaina residents, @h2ofun you could trend water in the lake for awhile. Not all of us are so lucky. You are by a lake, have you considered putting in sprinklers on your house pumped from the lake? Do you test your high volume, high pressure ICE fire pump regularly? How long does it take you to deploy it?
CalFire publishes recommendations on how to harden up your home. The recommendations may not be perfect, but they are a start.
I think we all have a significant duty to be proactive. I think that it is just common sense. Create open space around buildings, fireproof vents, get flammable objects like shrubs, deck chairs, picnic tables, and wood fences away from homes, put in working gutter guards, and protect roofs from falling embers. (And move things like flammable cars and boats away from homes in fire season.) All it takes are some windblown embers accumulating in a corner with something flammable and the party is over.
Fire is a real risk for all of us. I think that the Paradise, Santa Rosa and Louisville fires showed how little it takes for communities to be wipe out.
(There is a long list of things that the owners did that probably helped save their house, including that nice, steep metal roof.)
I think harden up your home or risk losing it is my message. Insurers aren't going to change their minds.
All the best,
BG
