Which is stupid as you’re meant to keep your eyes on the road, not the dashboard.
Tesla software engineers - logic evades them
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Are you OK with AutoPilot jail?
- Thread starter No42
- Start date
Tesla software engineers - logic evades them
The problem is the torque sensors are so poor, they don’t sense hands on the wheel
Your right, it is usually spelled as you have stated. But if you were more open-minded you would have known that Torq is an alternative spelling for Torque. I am sure you are a much better user of AP than me, but I believe there definitely can be some improvement to the current version so that the future versions will be safer for everyone. I believe in progress and I am sure Tesla will continue to improve them.
timk225
Active Member
No it isn't. Are you one of these college or high school kids who is so used to texting everything that you use words like lyk, u, i don't no, and so forth?
Torque is spelled torque. End of debate. I'm right and you're wrong. And any literary source that contradicts my statement is also wrong.
https://www.dictionary.com/misspelling?term=torq
RKBA
Member
Got a chance to test this yesterday, and confirmed that initiating an AP lane change also cancels the nag.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
I think the origin here is similar to some other words in that a manufacturer or company has created/invented a specific word or spelling so that it can be trademarked. Trademark law doesn't allow you to trademark a standard English word, so if you want to make a product whose name can carry a trademark, you need to have a unique word or spelling.
Take this manufacturer's torque wrench: D-TORQ WRENCH DX | Topeak
They spell the name of the wrench "Torq", thus they can now have a trademark on that name and then no other manufacturer can have or sell a "Torq" wrench.
In another example, In the cable TV market, the orignal Science Fiction channel called themselves "Sci-Fi". But that's a common enough English word/phrase that it could not carry a trademark. So they rebranded themselves as "Syfy" so that they could trademark it.
Nevertheless, the correct English word is "torque", and other variants have arisen from the creation/invention of similar words for these other purposes.
Hey, thanks for the education. Your explanation is correct. Way slang works are if it becomes popular enough it gets added to the dictionary sometimes. Also during blogging on the internet short forms are sometimes popularized to expedite communication since it is not an exercise of perfect English dissertation. It is interesting how even though I admitted that he was right in the usual setting that there can be an alternative in communication he comes back with this remark:
timk225, Yesterday at 6:48 PM
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Your right, it is usually spelled as you have stated. But if you were more open-minded you would have known that Torq is an alternative spelling for Torque.
No it isn't. Are you one of these college or high school kids who is so used to texting everything that you use words like lyk, u, i don't no, and so forth?
Torque is spelled torque. End of debate. I'm right and you're wrong. And any literary source that contradicts my statement is also wrong.
Anyway, I do know that Torque is the correct full annotation for the talk we are having "force needed to keep AP engaged". But this discussion of using correct full English annotation does not add constructively any discussion on the AP development and its advantage and shortcomings. It distracts us from point of having a helpful forum.
Wictionary
torq
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English[edit]
Pronunciation[edit]
- IPA(key): /tɔː(ɹ)k/
- Rhymes: -ɔː(ɹ)k
- Homophones: torc, torque, talk ('talk' in non-rhotic accents only)
torq (plural torqs)
- Alternative spelling of torque
I did the same, accelerating past 90 briefly and got no AP jail, and there appears to be an update that either removed this from the jail behavior, or gave some grace period so you can safely pass above 90 briefly.
Kichwas
Member
It only takes one headline of some idiot dying in a fiery inferno after engaging EAP then climbing into the back seat for a nap for the FUD community to have years if ammunition and bad press fuel.
Said idiot is why I didn’t buy EAP and I suspect I am not alone in that... before you’re on the inside of the Tesla community idiots like that form the glaring headlines of what you know about these cars...
I almost want an AP “prison” for repeat offenders... get put into EAP jail more than 6 times in a year and you lose the feature permanently unless you complete some multiday at-service-center training program on how not to be an idiot, similar to but more insulting than those driver classes people use to get out of paying speeding tickets.
Also, 6 pings of autopilot jail.. tesla should notify the person’s insurance that this is an unsafe driver and they should show up in bright yellow on my screen if I am near them in my car...
Said idiot is why I didn’t buy EAP and I suspect I am not alone in that... before you’re on the inside of the Tesla community idiots like that form the glaring headlines of what you know about these cars...
I almost want an AP “prison” for repeat offenders... get put into EAP jail more than 6 times in a year and you lose the feature permanently unless you complete some multiday at-service-center training program on how not to be an idiot, similar to but more insulting than those driver classes people use to get out of paying speeding tickets.
Also, 6 pings of autopilot jail.. tesla should notify the person’s insurance that this is an unsafe driver and they should show up in bright yellow on my screen if I am near them in my car...
RKBA
Member
I don't want my car tattling on me to anyone. But I like the idea of warning nearby Tesla drivers!
I'm fairly sure that some people have already responded to you but I'll chime in anyway.
I didn't really have much problem with my '15 MS but ever since I got my MX a couple of months ago, it's been nagging me even when I have at least one hand on the wheel *all* the time. So it's more like we're being wrongly accused just because the damn car can't sense the light touch.
I finally had enough of it when it disabled Autopilot while I was paying attention to the road and holding the wheel, again *all* the time. "Constant driver attention" should be on the road, not the freaking dashboard.
Yes, I went and bought a wrist weight to add some torque to the wheel - not enough to disable the nag but just enough to recognize me holding the wheel.
The real bozo is the one who decided that everyone would put that much torque on the wheel while holding it. That's so darn ridiculous.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
You guys realize that the adjustments that were made to Autopilot nagging and torque requirements are a direct result of people trying to beat the system, right? Products like Autopilot Buddy and lately the steering wheel weights that I have seen are forcing Tesla to put more stringent measures in place to ensure that drivers are indeed alert and aware. I just wish people could accept the system for what it is and stop trying to make it Full Self Driving when it isn't ready, safe, or in the company's best interests to do so. All these attempts to beat the system are ruining it for everyone. Just my $.02
Dan
Dan
Some losers forced Tesla to put the nagging system on. And those of us who have been using it responsibly now have to suffer from this unreasonable torque requirement and not say a word?
A lot of us hold the wheel very lightly on highways while still in full control. The system that Tesla has implemented is ruining our driving experience too. If they don't fix it properly, more and more people will try to bypass this - not because we don't want safety, but because of the badly implemented nagging system. And like I said in the previous post, the nagging system becomes a distraction for those of us who pay attention to the road and not the indicator on the dashboard. That's the exact opposite of what Tesla tries to accomplish.
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Dan Detweiler
Active Member
So if your hand is lightly on the wheel then what's the big deal with flicking your wrist every minute or two? From a liability standpoint, what would happen to Tesla if the idiots that are trying to get around the system get into an accident and there wasn't any type of active reminder to drivers to stay alert? How many lawsuits would there be from people saying the system lulled them into a false sense of security and caused the accident when they were completely tuned out? Hell, they're getting that even with the nags. They don't need to "fix" anything in my opinion. The nags are there to insure that the driver is engaged. As they continue to release more and more features to autopilot the need for these will be even more important until such time as full self driving is released and approved and the driver can take a nap. Until then the nags help the company from being sued into oblivion.
Dan
I have been routinely using AP everyday since my commute to work is mostly on highways. I was thinking about how Tesla has implemented torque sensing and realized short coming of their implementation. Instead of sensing Torque that is consistent with active smart engagement it is looking for some torque value that it is able to sense in any direction regardless of proper path. Therefore to defeat the nag you end up applying torq in the opposite direction of where the steering wheel is going. At least that is the easiest way. Because of this it ingrains bad subconscious behavior in us, conditioning us to apply slight force in the opposite direction of path of the road. For me at least, it is a strange sensation to do this going against my natural inclination to follow road bend. I would think an active, smart engagement would be to apply slight amount of torque in the proper direction of the road and leave us alone with nagging when the road is completely straight as long as we have our hands on the wheel. Currently I feel like the car is pinging from side to side within the boundaries of the lane to sense our hands with opposing force. No matter how small this pinging action might be, it can’t be more efficient use of power and cause unnecessary wear and tear including the tire. Optimal path is a straight line or a gentle curve in terms of driving path. So an active smart engagement would be an actually a person that applies least amount of torq, since he is moving his hand in the direction of the road, while keeping his hands on the wheel. If you are not actively engaged you will be applying the torque in the wrong direction if you have your hands on the wheel, hence the dumb weight. So even if some reason you have a sudden AP failure, we are more likely to subconsciously take over immediately the wheel in the proper direction. Sorry for the long rant. Maybe just an another dumb idea .
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
I guess everyone is different. I tend to flick the wheel in the direction of the turn if I am in a turn. If I am going straight I tend to push down on the wheel regardless of what hand is on the wheel (I usually drive with just one hand on the wheel...I know, sue me.) Also, when replying to nags, the pressure I apply to the wheel to acknowledge the nag is never enough to alter the vehicle's course. The few times I have accidentally done that it has disengaged auto steer. I will be taking a long drive this Saturday almost all on the highway so I will have plenty of miles to rethink all of this though.
Dan
My tendency is same as you. I tend to steer toward the direction that the car should take but I will occasionally apply more torque than the car wants and causing the AP to disengage. I also tend to just anchor with one hand near the bottom of the wheel with a light touch to keep the AP nag satisfied. This is what I mean when the current way of Tesla sensing has its shortcoming. We develop bad habits of driving properly instead of developing better conscious and subconscious habits.
I think it is unsafe to take your eyes off the road to check the display all the time and yes I have my hands on the wheel, I just don't like the way you don't know how much pressure on the wheel is needed. I have had a couple of times I overcompensated and took the car out of AP causing a swerving into the next lane.
