Phil Seastrand
Member
So repealing Dodd-Frank is a good policy because 2008 was such a fun year?
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Seriously? Is a hard choice for a grown up man and a CEO of a couple of companies (responsible for thousands of employees, company obligations, etc.) - to stay on the advisory board of the most influential political figure in the World or just to walk away to please a number of people on social media? Same people, who delete Uber just to jump on Lyft, sign petitions against pumpkin latte cup design and do other important things that grown-ups do?
First, shoutout to everyone for adding value/perspective and keeping the discussion civil.
The main concern of my post is not necessarily what my political views are or what your political views are (note: that discussion is probably best suited on another venue). Rather, the concern is how will Elon's involvement in the Trump admin impact Tesla as a company and their future growth prospects.
There are two ways to look at this impact. First, we can look at what the current impact is. Second, we can look at what the future impact will look like, but that will be based on certain assumptions (and those assumptions will be different for each of us).
When we look at the current impact, I think it's easy to minimize the impact by assuming that perhaps not that many people have canceled their Model 3 reservations. However, we do know that some people have cancelled their reservations, and I think this is a concerning fact. The reason this is concerning is not necessarily because it's a large percent of the overall reservations (it's most likely a very small percentage at the moment), but rather it's what the cancellations represent. In order to be an early Model 3 reservation holder, one generally needs to be someone who believes in Tesla/Elon and the values and mission of the company. When someone goes from a reservation holder to someone who cancels their reservation specifically because of Elon's alignment with the Trump admin, then it's showing that the reservation holder has been disappointed in a very deep manner. Now there will always be anomalies... meaning a few people here and there that cancel for odd reasons. However, beyond anomalies there could be trends as well. In other words, it's possible already a few to several hundred people have cancelled their Model 3 reservations because of their disappointment with Elon's involvement in the Trump admin. Now, objectively speaking this is a small amount and most people here might posit that its nothing to worry about. However, if you think about it on a deeper level there is likely an order or two magnitude more people that aren't disappointed to the point where they'd cancel their reservation but nevertheless they are disappointed at some level in Elon's involvement and they've lost some affinity toward Tesla/Elon due to the apparent difference in political views/values. Now it's extremely difficult to quantify this "loss of affinity" as it's more of a feeling/loyalty/goodwill toward a company and doesn't show up in typical metrics very well. However, this "affinity" is crucial and is why certain brands are worth what they are. The "loss of affinity" can show up when a person needs to confirm their reservation and they have second thoughts, and a large number don't confirm. Or this "loss of affinity" can show up in when they're less enthusiastic to share about Tesla to their friends. I'm going into detail with this concept because I think it's a mistake to overlook the current Model 3 cancellations as "not important". Rather, this is something that's worth keeping an eye out for.
Another area where this "loss of affinity" can impact Tesla is with its employees. A lot of Tesla's employees were drawn to Tesla by Elon's values and vision. However, as Elon continues his involvement in the Trump admin some are going to feel that this betrays their own personal values of democracy, individual rights (including immigrants, refugees, undocumented workers, etc), and globalism/peace. Now, I'm not saying that a majority of Tesla's employees are going to feel disappointed or betrayed. Actually I'm not saying that I know that number by any means. What I am saying is that I see if very possible that SOME (an unknown number) of Tesla's employee's are struggling with their personal commitment to a company whose leader is now supporting a regime that they see as a fascist regime undermining global democracy and peace. For those employees, it's a process and the longer Elon continues his involvement in the Trump regime, the more difficult it is for these employees to stay at Tesla. It also can hurt Tesla's recruitment of the best minds as well. Now a lot of this possible "brain drain" is predicated on Elon continuing his involvement in the Trump admin's advisory councils, which apparently Elon feels strongly about (based on this morning's tweet of "Doing otherwise would be wrong."). I wouldn't be surprised to see the first trickle of Tesla employees resigning this week. A few employees resigning won't impact Tesla significantly, but I'm more worried about the possibility of this becoming a trend and its impact on Tesla.
Many people thought that the Trump admin would change its rhetoric once in office, but I wasn't expecting that. If you do a deep dive in to Bannon (ie., watch Bannon's speeches on Youtube, watch his documentaries, read his interviews, etc. from the past 10 years), it's quite evident that Bannon has a very pointed agenda and that agenda is quite polarizing. In other words, I think we're headed for a very polarizing next several years in U.S. and world politics. What you're seeing now in terms of division and polarization is just the beginning of much, much more to come. In that context, people who try to play in the middle will be forced to choose a side. Travis Kalanick and Elon are/were trying to play in this middle, but the issues at stake are just too polarizing. Travis ended up choosing to distance himself from Trump/Bannon. While Elon, by nature of his defensive tweets, is choosing to align himself with Trump/Bannon. Even if Elon's intention is not to align himself with Trump/Bannon, this is how he is going to be seen by a growing number of people. This is the political reality of a hyper-polarized political environment.
The moral dilemma with Elon's involvement with the Trump/Bannon admin is the following. By defending his own personal involvement in the Trump admin, that action can and will be taken as criticism and chastisement of those who are choosing to protest and form a counter-movement. In other words, Elon is saying "Engagement is right. To not engage is wrong." However, there are millions of people who feel engagement is wrong as it could legitimize and lend credibility to what Trump/Bannon are doing. Thus, their plan is to fight and resist, and to raise up a counter-movement to vote Trump out in the next election. What Elon is doing can be seen not only as counterproductive but also directly opposing such efforts. In other words, the more Elon promotes engagement with Trump/Bannon, he can be seen as undermining the efforts of those who are resisting/protesting.
One of the big issues is how Elon views the Trump admin. Based on Elon's tweets it appears that Elon agrees with the gist of Trump's overall objectives/goals but he is critical on the manner those goals are pursued. However, this also poses a problem... in a political sense. There are many that disagree with the overall goals of the Trump admin, especially the key issues that Bannon is an advocate for (such as a crusade against Islam, closing of borders to foreigners/immigrants/etc, the monoculturalization of "civic society", etc). Thus, when Elon says publicly that he is in agreement with Trump's goal to "make American great again"... this is going to be mistaken as Elon agreeing with all of Trump/Bannon's overall goals. And in an intensely polarized political environment, this will put Elon at odds with half the world who disagree (roughly speaking).
Another part of all of this is while Trump is rather upfront, Bannon on the other hand is quite savvy and coy. In other words, Bannon's agenda is less transparent. And in order to get to his views, one really needs to do a deep dive on him using his own materials (Bannon's own speeches, documentaries, interviews, etc). Bannon has typically tried to be the behind-the-scenes orchestrator of a grand political strategy, using others as "vessels"... such as Breitbart news, GAI (if you're not familiar with this group, check Bannon's involvement and their usage of the dark web to target political opponents), Milo, etc.
I personally seriously doubt if Elon was aware of all of Bannon's ideology that Elon would still be as supportive of Trump/Bannon as he is currently. I actually personally doubt if 99% of the population is really aware of the full Bannon ideology.
If you understand the full Bannon ideology, you'll understand why the extreme polarization we're starting to see is just the beginning.
The main concern of my post is not necessarily what my political views are or what your political views are (note: that discussion is probably best suited on another venue). Rather, the concern is how will Elon's involvement in the Trump admin impact Tesla as a company and their future growth prospects.
There are two ways to look at this impact. First, we can look at what the current impact is. Second, we can look at what the future impact will look like, but that will be based on certain assumptions (and those assumptions will be different for each of us).
When we look at the current impact, I think it's easy to minimize the impact by assuming that perhaps not that many people have canceled their Model 3 reservations. However, we do know that some people have cancelled their reservations, and I think this is a concerning fact. The reason this is concerning is not necessarily because it's a large percent of the overall reservations (it's most likely a very small percentage at the moment), but rather it's what the cancellations represent. In order to be an early Model 3 reservation holder, one generally needs to be someone who believes in Tesla/Elon and the values and mission of the company. When someone goes from a reservation holder to someone who cancels their reservation specifically because of Elon's alignment with the Trump admin, then it's showing that the reservation holder has been disappointed in a very deep manner. Now there will always be anomalies... meaning a few people here and there that cancel for odd reasons. However, beyond anomalies there could be trends as well. In other words, it's possible already a few to several hundred people have cancelled their Model 3 reservations because of their disappointment with Elon's involvement in the Trump admin. Now, objectively speaking this is a small amount and most people here might posit that its nothing to worry about. However, if you think about it on a deeper level there is likely an order or two magnitude more people that aren't disappointed to the point where they'd cancel their reservation but nevertheless they are disappointed at some level in Elon's involvement and they've lost some affinity toward Tesla/Elon due to the apparent difference in political views/values. Now it's extremely difficult to quantify this "loss of affinity" as it's more of a feeling/loyalty/goodwill toward a company and doesn't show up in typical metrics very well. However, this "affinity" is crucial and is why certain brands are worth what they are. The "loss of affinity" can show up when a person needs to confirm their reservation and they have second thoughts, and a large number don't confirm. Or this "loss of affinity" can show up in when they're less enthusiastic to share about Tesla to their friends. I'm going into detail with this concept because I think it's a mistake to overlook the current Model 3 cancellations as "not important". Rather, this is something that's worth keeping an eye out for.
Another area where this "loss of affinity" can impact Tesla is with its employees. A lot of Tesla's employees were drawn to Tesla by Elon's values and vision. However, as Elon continues his involvement in the Trump admin some are going to feel that this betrays their own personal values of democracy, individual rights (including immigrants, refugees, undocumented workers, etc), and globalism/peace. Now, I'm not saying that a majority of Tesla's employees are going to feel disappointed or betrayed. Actually I'm not saying that I know that number by any means. What I am saying is that I see if very possible that SOME (an unknown number) of Tesla's employee's are struggling with their personal commitment to a company whose leader is now supporting a regime that they see as a fascist regime undermining global democracy and peace. For those employees, it's a process and the longer Elon continues his involvement in the Trump regime, the more difficult it is for these employees to stay at Tesla. It also can hurt Tesla's recruitment of the best minds as well. Now a lot of this possible "brain drain" is predicated on Elon continuing his involvement in the Trump admin's advisory councils, which apparently Elon feels strongly about (based on this morning's tweet of "Doing otherwise would be wrong."). I wouldn't be surprised to see the first trickle of Tesla employees resigning this week. A few employees resigning won't impact Tesla significantly, but I'm more worried about the possibility of this becoming a trend and its impact on Tesla.
Many people thought that the Trump admin would change its rhetoric once in office, but I wasn't expecting that. If you do a deep dive in to Bannon (ie., watch Bannon's speeches on Youtube, watch his documentaries, read his interviews, etc. from the past 10 years), it's quite evident that Bannon has a very pointed agenda and that agenda is quite polarizing. In other words, I think we're headed for a very polarizing next several years in U.S. and world politics. What you're seeing now in terms of division and polarization is just the beginning of much, much more to come. In that context, people who try to play in the middle will be forced to choose a side. Travis Kalanick and Elon are/were trying to play in this middle, but the issues at stake are just too polarizing. Travis ended up choosing to distance himself from Trump/Bannon. While Elon, by nature of his defensive tweets, is choosing to align himself with Trump/Bannon. Even if Elon's intention is not to align himself with Trump/Bannon, this is how he is going to be seen by a growing number of people. This is the political reality of a hyper-polarized political environment.
The moral dilemma with Elon's involvement with the Trump/Bannon admin is the following. By defending his own personal involvement in the Trump admin, that action can and will be taken as criticism and chastisement of those who are choosing to protest and form a counter-movement. In other words, Elon is saying "Engagement is right. To not engage is wrong." However, there are millions of people who feel engagement is wrong as it could legitimize and lend credibility to what Trump/Bannon are doing. Thus, their plan is to fight and resist, and to raise up a counter-movement to vote Trump out in the next election. What Elon is doing can be seen not only as counterproductive but also directly opposing such efforts. In other words, the more Elon promotes engagement with Trump/Bannon, he can be seen as undermining the efforts of those who are resisting/protesting.
One of the big issues is how Elon views the Trump admin. Based on Elon's tweets it appears that Elon agrees with the gist of Trump's overall objectives/goals but he is critical on the manner those goals are pursued. However, this also poses a problem... in a political sense. There are many that disagree with the overall goals of the Trump admin, especially the key issues that Bannon is an advocate for (such as a crusade against Islam, closing of borders to foreigners/immigrants/etc, the monoculturalization of "civic society", etc). Thus, when Elon says publicly that he is in agreement with Trump's goal to "make American great again"... this is going to be mistaken as Elon agreeing with all of Trump/Bannon's overall goals. And in an intensely polarized political environment, this will put Elon at odds with half the world who disagree (roughly speaking).
Another part of all of this is while Trump is rather upfront, Bannon on the other hand is quite savvy and coy. In other words, Bannon's agenda is less transparent. And in order to get to his views, one really needs to do a deep dive on him using his own materials (Bannon's own speeches, documentaries, interviews, etc). Bannon has typically tried to be the behind-the-scenes orchestrator of a grand political strategy, using others as "vessels"... such as Breitbart news, GAI (if you're not familiar with this group, check Bannon's involvement and their usage of the dark web to target political opponents), Milo, etc.
I personally seriously doubt if Elon was aware of all of Bannon's ideology that Elon would still be as supportive of Trump/Bannon as he is currently. I actually personally doubt if 99% of the population is really aware of the full Bannon ideology.
If you understand the full Bannon ideology, you'll understand why the extreme polarization we're starting to see is just the beginning.
Dave,
I understand your concern, but don't share it. For a few reasons.
Reservation cancellation: There are likely 400,000 different reasons for making a Model III reservation, and I think there will be about 1,000,000 different reasons before Model III is produced in volume. In any large group of individuals, there are 20% that are outstanding, 60% that are good/sufficient/solid and 20% that are difficult/high maintenance/trouble. You are asking Elon to cater, both in his company and to his reservation holders that inhabit the lower 20%. People that require a level of purity that doesn't exist in this world. That require a level of purity that, frankly, is better associated with the people you demonize. When did liberalism become so "Club for Growth", so.....conservative.
Elon is no Eichmann. He is not pledging to make the Holocaust trains run on time. He is trying to promote disruptive industries in a disruptive time - industries that he hopes will change the world and increase the probability of the survival of mankind. I think you are overestimating the Rasputin like qualities of Bannon and underestimating not only Elon, but the power of DC and the entrenched bureaucracy to halt some of your fears of wretched excess. Have you ever heard of the old naval technique of requiring "written orders". It is essentially operational mutiny and you have already started to see it. Trump/Bannon could end up like Capt. Queeg from the Caine Mutiny chasing mysteries of strawberries and 7 Muslim countries while everyone laughs.
Breathe deep, it is too soon, with too little data to predict doom. With the exception of a few (drama laced) Model III cancellations and some twitter back and forth, Nothing has happened. I have greater faith in how Elon is navigating these treacherous waters - even with the views I have of the exiting administration - than I do of the many that are Monday Morning quarterbacking his actions. It feels a little bit like Adam Jonas managing Tesla's strategy as an analyst in quarterly conference calls. We have so little data and with the little data we have, we feel comfortable second guessing one of the most intelligent and strategic mind in my lifetime. That's hubris.
I feel like Elon isn't doing it for Tesla or SpaceX. He's just doing what he can to minimize the damage to the country and world.
If he has even the slightest chance of pushing the administration in a more positive direction, on anything, he would consider it completely immoral to let a few cancellations and some bad publicity keep him from doing it.
If he has even the slightest chance of pushing the administration in a more positive direction, on anything, he would consider it completely immoral to let a few cancellations and some bad publicity keep him from doing it.
Sparky
Member
I think you've correctly identified this as the key risk of Musk's participation and the reason I wish he would stay Tweet-less about this Advisory Council.
Taken to an extreme conclusion, what would happen to brand affinity if Tesla became identified as Trump's favorite car company? Would sales go up or down in it's biggest U.S. market, blue-blue Calif; where voters went for Clinton 2-1 over Trump. European market? China?
Would VW-Audi, BMW and Tata (Jag) jump at a chance to get some of their market share back if all it takes is some guilt-by-association, fake news?
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Another interesting exercise is to take Elon's involvement and public statements to the most extreme possibilities on both sides and think about the consequences. What if Elon said, "I love Trump and everything about him! I'm a huge fan!" vs What if Elon said, "I hate Trump and can't stand what he's doing!"
In each scenario what would happen to Tesla's brand globally? Demand?
Folks here might disagree on what would happen, but I'd say it would be far more harmful to the Tesla brand and demand if Elon did the first/love scenario (vs hate scenario).
The reason this exercise is interesting is because in an increasingly polarized political environment, it's not so much what you intended to say but rather it's how others are perceiving and interpreting your words/actions. And increasingly so, it's possible (and likely in my view) that people will try to fit others in one of the two love/hate positions.
Bannon has claimed to be a Leninist who wants to "destroy the state" and "bring everything crashing down".
Steve Bannon, Trump's Top Guy, Told Me He Was 'A Leninist' Who Wants To ‘Destroy the State’
Apparently, Bannon has been writing the terrible, badly-written executive orders Trump has been signing. After Trump signed the counterproductive ban on people from six mostly-Muslim countries -- which still lets in anyone from countries like Saudi Arabia which actually sent terrorists to the US -- apparently the DHS secretary immediately issued an interpretation saying "of course this doesn't apply to people who already have green cards or immigrant visas". Which makes sense since those people have already gone through extremely extensive vetting.
IIRC the DHS secretary also said it didn't apply to dual citizens, which makes sense because Syria doesn't allow people to renounce their citizenship, so a lot of people have "Syrian citizenship" who have completely rejected Syria and are citizens of the US, UK, Canada, or some other country.
Then apparently Bannon intervened *personally* to say "yes it does apply to green card holders", and instructed that dual citizens be harassed too, immediately alienating and angering every major corporation in the entire world, alienating every government in the world period, and causing chaos at airports.
I see only two scenarios: (1) Trump figures out that Bannon is nothing but trouble and fires Bannon; (2) Trump is removed from office by the Republican Party (...start thinking about President Pence). Bannon is set and determined to make enemies of all the major powerbases in the world at once, and that's not a path to staying in power.
It should go without saying that all sane people should oppose President Bannon.
One of many articles on Bannon:
Steve Bannon, Bolshevik: Maybe Donald Trump’s alt-right Svengali really is a “Leninist”
To bring the topic back to Musk... as long as Musk doesn't endorse Bannon, I think he can only do good. Bannon is giving Turmp advice which is awful in every conceivable way, like Rasputin did for Tsar Nicholas; any voice telling Trump to stop listening to Bannon is helpful.
Steve Bannon, Trump's Top Guy, Told Me He Was 'A Leninist' Who Wants To ‘Destroy the State’
Apparently, Bannon has been writing the terrible, badly-written executive orders Trump has been signing. After Trump signed the counterproductive ban on people from six mostly-Muslim countries -- which still lets in anyone from countries like Saudi Arabia which actually sent terrorists to the US -- apparently the DHS secretary immediately issued an interpretation saying "of course this doesn't apply to people who already have green cards or immigrant visas". Which makes sense since those people have already gone through extremely extensive vetting.
IIRC the DHS secretary also said it didn't apply to dual citizens, which makes sense because Syria doesn't allow people to renounce their citizenship, so a lot of people have "Syrian citizenship" who have completely rejected Syria and are citizens of the US, UK, Canada, or some other country.
Then apparently Bannon intervened *personally* to say "yes it does apply to green card holders", and instructed that dual citizens be harassed too, immediately alienating and angering every major corporation in the entire world, alienating every government in the world period, and causing chaos at airports.
I see only two scenarios: (1) Trump figures out that Bannon is nothing but trouble and fires Bannon; (2) Trump is removed from office by the Republican Party (...start thinking about President Pence). Bannon is set and determined to make enemies of all the major powerbases in the world at once, and that's not a path to staying in power.
It should go without saying that all sane people should oppose President Bannon.
One of many articles on Bannon:
Steve Bannon, Bolshevik: Maybe Donald Trump’s alt-right Svengali really is a “Leninist”
To bring the topic back to Musk... as long as Musk doesn't endorse Bannon, I think he can only do good. Bannon is giving Turmp advice which is awful in every conceivable way, like Rasputin did for Tsar Nicholas; any voice telling Trump to stop listening to Bannon is helpful.
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FWIW
For Tesla (an EVs) to succeed, they must cease to be a distinctive of left or right.
For Example, Australia has about 20%-25% of homes with solar PV, generally it is the conservative electorates that lead in solar uptake.
Australia’s conservative heartland leads adoption of rooftop solar
Elon is currently bringing EVs into the mainstream, the optics of Elon advising Trump is a net benefit to both Tesla and EVs for broader adoption.
For Tesla (an EVs) to succeed, they must cease to be a distinctive of left or right.
For Example, Australia has about 20%-25% of homes with solar PV, generally it is the conservative electorates that lead in solar uptake.
Australia’s conservative heartland leads adoption of rooftop solar
Elon is currently bringing EVs into the mainstream, the optics of Elon advising Trump is a net benefit to both Tesla and EVs for broader adoption.
and bgarrett said (dang quotes, having probs figuring out)
.....underestimating not only Elon, but the power of DC and the entrenched bureaucracy to halt some of your fears of wretched excess. Have you ever heard of the old naval technique of requiring "written orders". It is essentially operational mutiny and you have already started to see it. Trump/Bannon could end up like Capt. Queeg from the Caine Mutiny chasing mysteries of strawberries and 7 Muslim countries while everyone laughs.....
2 million feds can be given an order, and slow walk it into oblivion (please tell me again, in triplicate, and sign in blue ink, not black)
i suspect Trump won't last out 2017 at the rate things are going, and it's going to a "long hot summer(s)" like in the 1960's, but more so, and Elon is walking a 'knife edge' focused on survival and Mars. there are a lot of folks whom will have to pick a side who just want peace and quiet.[/QUOTE]
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I think Elon is doing exactly the right thing in this situation and I think it will have minimal to no negative impact on Tesla over all. What seems to be totally ignored here is the good being done to the Tesla brand with those on the right who voted for Trump. So a few ideologues cancel their orders, how many on the other side are now taking a second look at Tesla because of Trump's support?
Can you provide more rationale for your assertions? Just curious considering Tesla's core markets in the US are largely left-leaning. And further, Tesla sales are global.
I have had identical thoughts; my strongest assertion is based on the expected and indeed actualized immense diminution in r-w wacko hit jobs on Tesla and on Mr Musk.
That is, by virtue of his sitting at not just one but two tables on a regular basis with the new President, Mr Musk has been provided that one's Great Seal Of Approval. When it was the case that the Deplorable Ones could - somehow - equate Teslas with President Obama or HRClinton, it thereupon became easy for them to dismiss the cars and Mr Musk. It is not that that now has diminished so much as that it has taken very close to a 180º turn.
Had any economists already invented and presented the concept of Political Leaning Elasticity of Demand....or did I just do so?
This is a very good point. Tesla draws (and depends upon) Silicon Valley talent. And that culture is pretty liberal/libertarian leaning. It is no surprise that Microsoft and Facebook went to bat for their employees against the travel ban. Not just on an affinity level but also something that directly affects them. Microsoft had hunderds of engineers that were directly affected : no ability to travel outside the US and family not able to visit. When an issue hits that close it's certainly conceivable for an engineer that basically can switch jobs at will to pick a company with a leader that's on their side of the struggle. I continue to want Elon to interact with the president, a direct line in the White House is worth a lot. But he should avoid any impression that he becomes a legitimiser of the administration.
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Tesla's core markets are left leaning because (and only because imo) of the perceived affiliation of EVs with leftist political goals. I have many far right friends who won't even consider Tesla *purely* because they think EVs are a "leftist thing". I have more moderate righty friends that will pay attention to the arguments. I tell both groups that a global transition to EVs is 100% inevitable barring some doomsday event. I also tell them that, given equal scales of production, EVs will be superior to ICE vehicles in every way except speed of long road trips (where they will still be competitive). Even the far righties know I'm correct, they just don't want to face the facts. But no one wants to back a loser, and at least in my circles, EV acceptance is growing fairly quickly.
The real question here, is whether righty moderates are quicker to jump on the ship than far leftists are to jump off the ship. I don't know the answer to this question and am also made uneasy by a possible loss of enthusiasm from far left Tesla supporters, many of whom are influential academics. This *is* an additional risk. I remain optimistic though, my unease comes from an increase in my uncertainty not from a lowering of my price targets.
Zhelko Dimic
Careful bull
Speaking of disappointments. I wish I've never heard of Tesla. I'd be in much better shape financially. I was in TSLA options and kept increasing my exposure (to recover!) as I was listening to Elon's BS about Model X problems being resolved. And just as they started being being resolved, he pulled SCTY move. Now, if I were in stock, no problem, but I kept dancing with long-term options for two years, and was almost annihilated. So, yeah, while I think Elon is the most important figure of 21st century, I'm very annoyed with him. My stupidity and his style of communication cost me almost all of my retirement fund.
Yet, this last week I dug out spare change to get least expensive inventory S60 (in Canada) on lease. Car is just that good. There is no alternative, this coming from Porsche/Mercedes/BMW/Mazda/Toyota
Those that cancelled reservations over Trump issue are primadonas that you probably don't want to have as clients anyhow.
Please no investment advice! Thanks
I admire Elon for taking on this unpleasant and entirely unwelcome distraction. Bringing a voice of reason, rationality and principle, and attempting to build bridges and find some middle ground when polarizing forces are on the rise, are the right and honorable thing to do. They are also the prudent thing for Tesla, which is more likely to be the victim of dirty tricks and skulduggery from some of the darker forces in the administration if Elon did not have a seat at the table. This is a highly charged environment and Elon may not be able to pull this off, but I for one am glad he's giving it a shot.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
On top of what others have already said I simply feel that the extremists on the left are a small minority, and an even smaller minority of that group are in a position to do anything directly affecting Tesla. Many of us here are left leaning and few, if any, are upset enough to cancel orders. Add that to my aforementioned belief that Elon's actions and efforts working with Trump will pull in additional support from the right. Obviously Elon's thinking is in line with my own, which has historically worked out well for both of us
On top of what others have already said I simply feel that the extremists on the left are a small minority, and an even smaller minority of that group are in a position to do anything directly affecting Tesla. Many of us here are left leaning and few, if any, are upset enough to cancel orders. Add that to my aforementioned belief that Elon's actions and efforts working with Trump will pull in additional support from the right. Obviously Elon's thinking is in line with my own, which has historically worked out well for both of us
Perhaps it's very different in California than where you are. Out here I see the majority of people here disturbed by what Trump/Bannon are doing... definitely not a small minority of extremists.
Many are concerned by the state of democracy worldwide, including US democracy downgraded to a "flawed democracy", Declining trust in government is denting democracy
Also, many are concerned by the global tensions between nations that have been exacerbated since Trump/Bannon. Ie., Board moves the Clock ahead
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