Audi e-tron Documentary: development & production

[Brando]

I decided not to comment on this "e-tron documentary". Why?

1- I didn't want to really help Audi see where they are going wrong.
a. Are they really this clueless? It is Madison Avenue thinking at its best.
b. If potential customers are persuaded to buy after watching this, I guess they deserve what they pay for.

Elon says spend money on the product not Ads.

I just don't see how any critical thinker/buyer would be impressed by this video. You?
41 minutes

 

[Vitold]

I am impressed - this video Shows that Audi is serious about EVs.

Keep in mind that, for one, Audi dealers will not explain advantages of EVs like Tesla stores do and, secondly, this product is aimed at consumers who are used to marketing and crave it. Audi is actually doing Tesla a favor here, preaching EV advantages to a new audience.

I did not vote because Audi is not competing with Tesla in my opinion and from their video I think they know it.

 

[NeverFollow]

After watching this documentary of e-tron development and production:

1. Tesla Model X is the clear winner.
2. Audi e-tron is the clear winner.
3. I need to test drive both before I can decide.
4. The Tesla Model Y will be the clear winner.

 

[Axtrader]

Audi should have talked about the ETRONs connectivity. The car is the ultimate mobile device and people want to draw comparisons to iPhone and Android. In those terms, ETRON is about as cool as a Nokia phone.

 

[OPRCE]

There's no doubt it will be a solidly enjoyable, comfortable and reliable car with the rapidly expanding Ionity CCS fast-charging network available, at least in Europe, by the time it is delivered near end of 2019. Fit, finish, service and spares will be impeccable out the gate. But in the field of ADAS it is not intended to compete with Tesla at all, so the premise of this poll/article is IMHO misplaced. Aimed at a more dyed-in-the-wool demographic, the e-tron will surely be a great success for Audi/VW, encouraging them to take further strides in the right direction, hence why we should all celebrate its arrival with a thorough test-drive if not actual orders!

 

[Brando]

There's no doubt it will be a solidly enjoyable, comfortable and reliable car with the rapidly expanding Ionity CCS fast-charging network available, at least in Europe, by the time it is delivered near end of 2019. Fit, finish, service and spares will be impeccable out the gate. But in the field of ADAS it is not intended to compete with Tesla at all, so the premise of this poll/article is IMHO misplaced. Aimed at a more dyed-in-the-wool demographic, the e-tron will surely be a great success for Audi/VW, encouraging them to take further strides in the right direction, hence why we should all celebrate its arrival with a thorough test-drive if not actual orders!

How many will they make? Will they sell all they can make?
Model X about 50,000 / year. Will Audi make 50,000 e-trons? I call it a big success if they do. Fear only 20-30,000.

 

[OPRCE]

How many will they make? Will they sell all they can make?
Model X about 50,000 / year. Will Audi make 50,000 e-trons? I call it a big success if they do. Fear only 20-30,000.

The factory at Forest in Bruxelles, Belgium, produced VW Golf at ~250,000 p.a. like clockwork with a consummately expert workforce back before making Audi A1 and then being rejigged to AFAIK co-produce this vehicle on the same line, so I imagine they will have planned to ramp up/down to keep the total as near that rate as possible. The market in Europe, USA and China should fairly soon support a goodly volume of e-tron if it proves popular.

So I'm gonna bet output >=65,000 in the first year after series launch.

 

[dzmconstr]

The factory at Forest in Bruxelles, Belgium, produced VW Golf at ~250,000 p.a. like clockwork with a consummately expert workforce back before making Audi A1 and then being rejigged to AFAIK co-produce this vehicle on the same line, so I imagine they will have planned to ramp up/down to keep the total as near that rate as possible. The market in Europe, USA and China should fairly soon support a goodly volume of e-tron if it proves popular.

So I'm gonna bet output >=65,000 in the first year after series launch.

They look awfully similar to the Q8 so I would question as to where they’re going to be built.

Also not sure if I’m impressed by the advert, why would I be its only an ad, but I am intrigued by the prospect of a more normally shaped EV SUV and the ad makes me want more info. I love and hate the X at the same time: love the rear doors, yet hate them because I can’t carry my SUPs and cargo box and use the rear doors or hatch....so my dogs have to climb from the front seat to the back...really Tesla? I should be able to do that with the etron; Love the style of the X but at the same time hate the shitty workmanship on the body panels - looked at three BNIB on the lot and all 3 needed body panel work for small gap on driver side and Grand Canyon on the passenger side; I keep seeing all over the forum issues with door handles, paint, yellow banding on the MCU etc yet They’re awesome and all other cars suck.

Only time is going to tell on this Audi thing. Let’s see how they do once they’re on the road vice on the internet.

Dzm

 

[OPRCE]

I would question as to where they’re going to be built

Definitely Bruxelles, Belgium, as confirmed in the video itself.

 

[dzmconstr]

Definitely Bruxelles, Belgium, as confirmed in the video itself.

See that now. Thanks.

 

[Brando]

So far Audi suggests no inventory cars at the dealers. Special order (sight unseen? no test drive? leasing angle?)
Perhaps this is to encourage some dealers to be first and get an advantage over other Audi dealers - being 1st with e-trons on the lot?

MSRP is less than Model X. Many suspect range also less. Safety? So we must wait to see.

 

[arnis]

Now I've seen e-tron charging way way faster than Tesla (average power).
aka 150kW charging rate confirmed. And VERY wide range of SOC on that speed.
From at no more than 40% up to around 70% at 150kW (should be around 140kW at SOC 20%-40% due to lower voltage).
And at 80% speed was still above 100kW.

 

[NeverFollow]

Now I've seen e-tron charging way way faster than Tesla (average power).
aka 150kW charging rate confirmed. And VERY wide range of SOC on that speed.

From at no more than 40% up to around 70% at 150kW (should be around 140kW at SOC 20%-40% due to lower voltage).
And at 80% speed was still above 100kW.

I guess, Audi have been able to redefine the laws of physics...

 

[Brando]

e-tron fast charger - I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, I suspect just marketing BS. waiting for Bjorn to test

Best thing Audi could do is to team up with Tesla SuperChargers.
I suspect the Chinese will. We shall see.

 

[OPRCE]

Now I've seen e-tron charging way way faster than Tesla (average power).
aka 150kW charging rate confirmed. And VERY wide range of SOC on that speed.
From at no more than 40% up to around 70% at 150kW (should be around 140kW at SOC 20%-40% due to lower voltage).
And at 80% speed was still above 100kW.

Pity he didn't do it right by charging 5..100%, focussing on the display throughout!

Still, scavenging from what we can see, 110kW @81% SoC is great. He started @ 46% and rate went to 145kW inside 15s, then took ~13min to 80%, estimating total of 38min at start and 25min remaining for 80..100%.

Then estimating net battery capacity:
6kWh loaded displays 53% SoC
30.5kWh loaded displays 82% SoC
∆24.5kWh = ∆29% on display
100% on display = (24.5/29)*100 = 84.5kWh net useful
i.e. battery reserve = (1-(84.5/95))*100 = 11%
[cf Tesla X/S100D having useful 98.4/102.4kWh = 4% reserve]

If, as looks likely, the e-Tron can average 140kW for 10..90% SoC,
with 11% batt reserve not displayed,
charging 80% of 84.5kWh = 67.6kWh
in 67.6kWh/140kW = 0.482h *60 = 29 minutes
which would be an excellent performance!

While the range @130kmh remains to be seen, given Cd=0.27 and similar ø area, I think the generous charging speed should see it road-trip faster than an X100D.

 

[OPRCE]

e-tron fast charger - I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, I suspect just marketing BS. waiting for Bjorn to test

Best thing Audi could do is to team up with Tesla SuperChargers.
I suspect the Chinese will. We shall see.

Audi already have faster CCS chargers in the public IONITY/EA network [up to 350kW dedicated per stall] and the Tesla SuC cables are very short so will only reach to the charging ports of Teslas, unless they modify the design with v3.

It is IMHO a given that no established OEM will officially adopt Tesla's SuC, as they will prefer not to assist this upstart competitor who has already delivered them a frightening boot in the hoop.

But Tesla may be able to steal their customers away to the SuC network anyhow, if allowing them to register their VIN and CC-details individually, while offering a 20% better price/kWh. That's what I would do

 

[OPRCE]

For comparison with the analysis above for e-Tron battery, I charged my 100kWh from 46..80% yesterday:

Inside 1 minute it was at 62kW with ETA to 100% = 65min

Maximum rate seen was 82kW at 63%

Arrived to 80% after 27.5min, with final rate 52kW

Ambient temp. was 1°C but had been driving a while so regen was not limited, i.e. battery warm.


Audi are, it seems, sourcing 60Ah cells similar to iPace/Bolt from LG-Chem, so less energy density but lower internal resistance (heat generation). No info thus far on expected cycle life but can't imagine it is bad.

...........................e-Tron ........ X100D
kerb weight........2490.............2460 kg
pack weight.........715................590 kg
chemistry.........NMC-622..........NCA

Audi e-tron vs Jaguar I-PACE battery pack comparison

 

[CarlK]

I guess, Audi have been able to redefine the laws of physics...

Not quite yet. We still don't know if you can do this once, ten times or a lot of times and how that will affect the battery life.

 

[OPRCE]

Update to previous post:

46..80% has since been managed in 25min @ same ambient temp, max. rate 90kW, end rate 56kW, so presumably not totally warmed up on previous reading.