That's hardly unique to California. There's no law in Florida saying I can't wear purple underpants when I skydive. But there's no law saying it's explicitly legal, either. It's simply something that would have to be considered in the context of other laws.
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Autopilot and Lane Splitters
- Thread starter mp0i
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- Autopilot lane splitters
That's hardly unique to California. There's no law in Florida saying I can't wear purple underpants when I skydive. But there's no law saying it's explicitly legal, either. It's simply something that would have to be considered in the context of other laws.
roblab
Active Member
As a motorcyclist for 55 years, it saddens me to see these two wheel motorists seemingly thinking that they own the road and that cars need to pull over for them. I have always slowed down and changed lanes to pass when riding my bike. Thinking that I have the right to push a car around just because I am more fragile and likely to die is just weird.
I NEVER pull over so that a motorcyclist can roar past me. If he doesn't have room, he should wait and change lanes. Even if he has room, it's pretty stupid to think that the driver is aware of him and won't swerve to make that exit in time. If insurance puts the onus on the driver who is in his lane, well, that's pretty sad, too. Cyclists have responsibility, too. I grew up believing that I had to obey the same laws as other drivers. Cars don't lane split. Cyclists riding in the same lane usually ride so that one is forward a dozen feet or more.
Anyone smacking my mirror would at least get a long honk. That was out of place.
I NEVER pull over so that a motorcyclist can roar past me. If he doesn't have room, he should wait and change lanes. Even if he has room, it's pretty stupid to think that the driver is aware of him and won't swerve to make that exit in time. If insurance puts the onus on the driver who is in his lane, well, that's pretty sad, too. Cyclists have responsibility, too. I grew up believing that I had to obey the same laws as other drivers. Cars don't lane split. Cyclists riding in the same lane usually ride so that one is forward a dozen feet or more.
Anyone smacking my mirror would at least get a long honk. That was out of place.
I generally agree with your sentiment, if not the steadfast resolve to stay put. I give people more room mostly because I appreciate it when people do it for me when I'm on the bike, not because it's necessary. If someone's so far over I can't get around them, I'll wait for the appropriate opening or figure out an alternative solution.
But Florida doesn’t post that it is neither legal nor illegal to wear purple underpants while skydiving. California did state it both ways on lane splitting.
For the record, it is sir and you may wear purple underpants anytime you want, but there will be no need to tell meThat point goes to you, sir. Or maam. Whatever you are
Also had a motorcycle a*hole encounter a few weeks ago, except that I used auto pilot's lane change feature and a biker happened to try lane splitting as I was changing lane. Even though I have a dash cam (see videos below, starting around 20 sec), it couldn't capture the action of the biker flipped my mirror backward (and the biker actually made a dent to the mirror's supporting arm as he hit it so hard that the mirror cover hit the metal supporting arm). Couldn't get that guy's license plate number either, so can't even do public shaming of the guy. Hope Darwin's law eventually takes care of people like that.
Not that it excuses what he did (and I wish you got his plate so you could have called the cops), but you did change lanes in front of the guy after cruising in the overtaking lane. Being in the correct lane might have avoided the situation, and looking before changing lanes might have avoided the situation. (At least) two sides to every conflict.
Ketchups
Member
talk about entitled. when I drive or ride, I just assume everyone else on the road is an idiot and do my best to stay away from them.
MelaniainLA
Member
Just to resurrect this thread in light of personal experience and the new V9 AP for AP2+ cars that employs all 8 cameras:
1. I’ve had TWO incidents (neither on AP) where lane-splitting motorcycles have destroyed my side-view mirror lane-splitting while I’ve been in the HOV lane (CA states). In both cases, I was nearly stopped and they were going 75+ MPH so their momentum allowed them to keep going without even slowing down or looking back. Dash cams installed now.
2. With all 8 cameras active, possible to AP2+ to be programmed to have the car move slightly to the left when it detects a rapidly-approaching lane-splitting motorcycle coming from behind? Might be difficult to visualize with other cars around but perhaps possible in many cases. Does it already do that?
3. On a somewhat related note, I’m still frightened to use AP2 at high speeds in HOV lanes because alone many sections of freeway, there is a 2-4 inch margin of safety between the HOV lane and the center divider. I’m so afraid that a slight over or under correction would cause my car to sideswipe the wall at high speed, leading to disaster. Has anyone had this happen, seen a report of it happening? Or should I trust the system while continuing to remain hypervigilant?
1. I’ve had TWO incidents (neither on AP) where lane-splitting motorcycles have destroyed my side-view mirror lane-splitting while I’ve been in the HOV lane (CA states). In both cases, I was nearly stopped and they were going 75+ MPH so their momentum allowed them to keep going without even slowing down or looking back. Dash cams installed now.
2. With all 8 cameras active, possible to AP2+ to be programmed to have the car move slightly to the left when it detects a rapidly-approaching lane-splitting motorcycle coming from behind? Might be difficult to visualize with other cars around but perhaps possible in many cases. Does it already do that?
3. On a somewhat related note, I’m still frightened to use AP2 at high speeds in HOV lanes because alone many sections of freeway, there is a 2-4 inch margin of safety between the HOV lane and the center divider. I’m so afraid that a slight over or under correction would cause my car to sideswipe the wall at high speed, leading to disaster. Has anyone had this happen, seen a report of it happening? Or should I trust the system while continuing to remain hypervigilant?
Incredible discussion. On the East Coast and in AZ, you rarely see motorcycles lane-splitting, and when they are, they are driving in a manner which meets the definition of aggressive and reckless driving (subjecting them to citation by the police if caught). I get that there are apparent discrepancies in CA law (and that CA has really lousy traffic), but find it incredible that this kind of driving behavior is ever considered "appropriate."
mkspeedr
Member
I dont think anyone considers it appropriate. Not even most of the splitters. The local rider forum BARF (bay area rider forum) has many threads about splitting, safety and the negative impact of reckless splitting.
Anyone crazy enough to split at 75 while cars are almost stopped has a death wish.
Anyone crazy enough to split at 75 while cars are almost stopped has a death wish.
MelaniainLA
Member
Agreed re “death wish”. The problem is that when they achieve their wish, WE as car drivers are always found at fault and at the very least financially liable and, in some cases, criminally liable as well for vehicular homicide and reckless driving etc. Hence why I have 2 front and 1 rear dash cam and try to hug the left side of the HOV/fast lane as much as safely feasible.
As a trauma surgeon, I’ve seen what happens to these motorcyclists. The damage to their bodies far surpasses anything caused by a gunshot wound. I’ll skip the imagery...
Eevee
Member
That's a really odd thing to say. People don't normally open their doors on the freeway.
Doors are more of a thing for BIcyclists and PARKED cars not motorcyclists and moving cars on a freeway. Who is thinking, I better not split lanes with that guy, he looks like he might have to puke?
We have a lot of guns in Nevada and that does NOT stop road rage. Sometimes road rage involves the guns and people have been killed.
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To the point of the OP, I think it's kind of odd how autopilot places the vehicle perfect center in the lane. And it doesn't seem to adjust for other vehicles at all. I don't see anyone actually driving like that. To me, it feels like it's too far to the right. To my husband, it feels too far to the left. We both drive a bit on one side or the other and so the AP 'feels weird' to us. We also adjust to the other vehicles, not just the lane lines. So when someone is far to their left in the right lane, we move more to the left too, but AP doesn't do that. Maybe that's just AP1 (that's what I have) and it's fixed in the newer version.
Just sayin' the risk exists (along with my seatbelt is stuck in the door, or is my tire low on air... you get my point). So why take a chance at all?
Having a long commute on LA freeways for many years now, I've seen motorcyclists hit cars or slap at mirrors many times when someone doesn't "make room" - ignoring, of course, that there is no requirement that a driver do so. And yes, any contact between a motorcycle and a car will be blamed on the car. They will say you were "changing lanes" even if you weren't, and leave it to you to prove otherwise. An impossible task UNLESS you have real-time camera rolling. Otherwise, the jury will almost always side with a badly injured motorcycle rider over the owner of a fancy Tesla, who presumably has lots of insurance (the rider will always lose in a contest with a car or truck). After all, all those "motorcycle lawyers" advertising on TV and the backs of buses wouldn't be there if there wasn't good money to be made.
That said, Autopilot really isn't the problem, and might actually be a solution. Autopilot usually keeps the car centered in the lane. Most "angry motorcyclist" incidents I see are when the driver is cluelessly driving close to the line. Yes, I always try to pull over and make room, just to avoid trouble. If doing so takes the car out of Autopilot for a moment, so be it. (Even without motorcycles involved, I would welcome the ability to sometimes nudge the car over in the lane without cancelling Autopilot. That might be a nice fix.) BUT, getting back to lawsuit possibilities, having the car in Autopilot could be useful just to help prove you weren't changing lanes - when you change lanes in Autopilot does the car make a record of that?
That said, Autopilot really isn't the problem, and might actually be a solution. Autopilot usually keeps the car centered in the lane. Most "angry motorcyclist" incidents I see are when the driver is cluelessly driving close to the line. Yes, I always try to pull over and make room, just to avoid trouble. If doing so takes the car out of Autopilot for a moment, so be it. (Even without motorcycles involved, I would welcome the ability to sometimes nudge the car over in the lane without cancelling Autopilot. That might be a nice fix.) BUT, getting back to lawsuit possibilities, having the car in Autopilot could be useful just to help prove you weren't changing lanes - when you change lanes in Autopilot does the car make a record of that?
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