Autopilot goof. Good thing I was paying attention :)

[SammichLover]

I've heard this, but no opportunity to try yet - fortunately I do not even have to get on a freeway for my commute. I am very curious about just how much torque has to be exerted - I've got it all set up and ready to go for my next freeway drive, but no chances over the last couple weeks. I guess I should have bought FSD, as I'm sure that will work brilliantly for my slog through multiple traffic lights. There are so many Model 3s headed to Qualcomm in the morning on that drag, it will be interesting, especially if they all have FSD. In fact, I hope they all bought FSD; it's going to be pretty easy to push those poor computers around.

I only wish I could vote Love & Funny on this post.

The torque requirement seems "normal" that the nag usually asks for. At first I had the habit of putting the pressure the way NoAP wanted to move but then I decided to be contrarian and see what happened if I put the torque in the opposite direction. It still worked. I tried the "flip the speed set point" as well but that seemed to only satisfy the nag momentarily, not enough for the lane change to get going and happen.

 

[LSR01]

It’s correct that Tesla’s position is that AP is for freeway conditions. It’s equally true that the software itself uses more than just lane markings. It clearly also uses “vehicle following” as an additional mechanism, as can be seen if following another vehicle into a “no lane marking” situation. Most likely, it uses any combination of methods at any particular moment depending on conditions when attempting to follow the lane.

I’d be surprised if most of didn’t often try AP in situations it’s officially not ready for to see how it handles that situation. Seems like the OP is in that category, and followed common sense in paying attention and being ready to take over if necessary.

You can tell that the car tried to center itself in the “lane”, when the centerline disappeared, and corrected itself when it returned. Wonder what it would have done if there was an oncoming car? I’m sure it would have sensed it, but wonder what the corrective action would have been.

 

[daniel]

While on a trip from the Central Valley of California to Monterrey, California, we were travelling west on State Route 152 west of Los Banos and going up the grade to Pacheco Pass. This is a four lane section of divided highway. I had our Model 3 Enhanced Auto-Pilot engaged. As we were going around a left curve in the road on the upside of the grade, our Model 3, which was in the #2 lane (the right lane) seemed to be having difficulty maintaining lane position and as it went around the curve, it got closer and closer to the lines dividing the #1 and #2 lanes. Unfortunately, there was a vehicle in the #1 lane that was directly opposite us. When our Model 3 got so close that it was probably within a few inches of the other car, the autopilot suddenly beeped a warning tone and I had to take control to move the car back into the proper lane position within the #2 lane. I'm sure the people in the car next to us in the #1 lane thought maybe I needed to have my driver's license status re-evaluated. They did not look happy. It was a bright, clear, sunny day, so weather wasn't a factor.

I've had a few similar incidents but none where the car came quite so close to making contact with another vehicle.

My point, I suppose, is that while my wife and I both love the Enhanced Auto-Pilot features and we use it often, we have definitely experienced enough "glitches" with it that we don't fully trust it and always pay close attention while it is engaged -- which, I know, is exactly what Tesla recommends. It is certainly nowhere close to what Full Self Driving capability needs to be.

On my summer drive up to Canada, tight curves gave the car a lot of difficulty. It was generally unable to stay in the center of the lane at the posted speed limit when the curves were tight. This became obvious early and I delt with it by taking over under these conditions. Or sometimes by lowering my speed if there were no cars behind me. It's not hard to learn what the car can do and what it cannot. It's not FSD yet, so I use the driver assist features (EAP) where they work, and disengage them where they don't.

Any time the car is unable to stay centered on the road I take over. Any time a car in an adjacent lane is straying too close to the lane diviver, I take over. Any time a car approaching from the other direction seems too close to the line, I take over. All these things put together totalled a very small percentage of the orall trip.

 

[glgador007]

Just decided to hit the "save" button on my dash cam to show this. Not a big deal, and nothing dramatic, but this is just a bit of evidence that Autopilot in its current state isn't ready for the streets of my town, at least. The dream of "full self driving" seems painfully far away when a simple rounding of a corner results in driving on the wrong side of the road.

I was paying attention and my hands were on the wheel. I saw that there were no cars coming so when it started to "glitch", I allowed it to carry on with its maneuver to see if it could figure out what to do. Alas, it did not.

FWIW, I use Autopilot everywhere and I try to push it into uncomfortable scenarios. Partially for my own curiosity but also in hopes it provides Tesla with some data.

I believe it's a combination of a long break in the highway lane line and the shadow on the road. Good job!

 

[bcsteeve]

How is the car Phoenix? Please explain.

From a different thread. I lost a Model S to a house fire, and Runninggirl suggested I name my Model 3 "Phoenix" (mythical bird that rose from the ashes)

So the end of the video was showing you manually pulling it back to the right side of the road?

That's correct.

 

[Littlecm]

Yes, but the problem mentioned in the OP is a known problem. If the middle line temporarily disappear, it can sometimes get confused and will try to center itself in the adjacent lane since it sees those lane lines as well. AP has no awareness yet of what is your lane and what is the lane for incoming traffic, it just sees lanes and will try to center itself in that lane even if it is the wrong lane.

Good to know this, as I plan on renting a Tesla this weekend!

 

[cybergates]

What is there to report....."Hey Tesla your AP doesn't work in a situation that the owners manual says isn't supposed to be used in"? They know that it doesn't work as well off the highway, that's why they say to use it on the highway only...... That's like having summon go through the drive through at Starbucks and then complaining when it crashes into the order menu. I know people are going to be like "I use it all the time off highway it should work". Well not with a high enough reliability rate according to the manufacturer that would allow them to feel comfortable enough to tell you its ok. So don't be surprised or freaking out when it doesn't work. It's working as advertised. Period. Now situations where it doesn't work on the highway are an altogether different problem.

just today my car jumped lanes going thru an intersection on a city street straight from the fast lane to the slow lane. I was almost too lax as the car made it over, luckily didn't hit anyone.....I reported this glitch. Uh, I'm not sure I would call this working as advertised. If they didn't want us using autopilot on city streets they could disable it as they did when AP2 was in its infancy....and they wouldn't have allowed auto-lane changes on city streets which they have now allowed. What is mind boggling is why the car would want to suddenly swerve out of the projected arc of the road that the car is already traveling on to suddenly jump across lanes during an intersection. It happened again where a left turn lane appears and the car wanted to suddenly break from the natural arc of the road from the fast lane to swerve into the short left turn lane at the signal. AP1 handled these situations with much more grace following the natural arc the car is travelling on if the lanes momentarily were lost.

This is an area of growth for the AP AI - I think even elon mentioned it in that recent interview that they have a lot more work to do for city streets..

 

[Kilotango74]

just today my car jumped lanes going thru an intersection on a city street straight from the fast lane to the slow lane. I was almost too lax as the car made it over, luckily didn't hit anyone.....I reported this glitch. Uh, I'm not sure I would call this working as advertised. If they didn't want us using autopilot on city streets they could disable it as they did when AP2 was in its infancy....and they wouldn't have allowed auto-lane changes on city streets which they have now allowed. What is mind boggling is why the car would want to suddenly swerve out of the projected arc of the road that the car is already traveling on to suddenly jump across lanes during an intersection. It happened again where a left turn lane appears and the car wanted to suddenly break from the natural arc of the road from the fast lane to swerve into the short left turn lane at the signal. AP1 handled these situations with much more grace following the natural arc the car is travelling on if the lanes momentarily were lost.

This is an area of growth for the AP AI - I think even elon mentioned it in that recent interview that they have a lot more work to do for city streets..

Hence why the manual states that it is for use on highway only.

 

[tomas]

Hence why the manual states that it is for use on highway only.

Amen. Tesla believes strongly in personal responsibility and trusts their drivers to not be children. My 2012 Model S was the first car I had ever been in that allowed you to set Nav destinations while driving. Now my 2018 3 lets me use AP functions wherever. The only “nanny” is the manual and a few beta reminders plus nags if you don’t keep hands on wheel. I like this!

But I’m concerned when I read threads like this that Tesla is giving many of their irresponsible drivers too much responsibility. Why does OP go out and test non highway edge cases and then post threads with clickbait titles implying AP failed when in fact he was using it outside of intended situations? I hope the experimenters here stay safe and take personal responsibility for how they are knowingly using the product outside intended scope. And don’t blame Tesla if it all goes wrong.

 

[bcsteeve]

Oh come on you manual-cops... enough. The law says not to go a single mph over the posted limit... are you telling me you adhere to that? And that's the law, not some corporation writing something in their manual solely to protect themselves from liability.

Give me a break. I did nothing irresponsible, or negligent, blah blah.

 

[Knightshade]

Oh come on you manual-cops... enough. The law says not to go a single mph over the posted limit... are you telling me you adhere to that? And that's the law, not some corporation writing something in their manual solely to protect themselves from liability.

Give me a break. I did nothing irresponsible, or negligent, blah blah.

Except use a vehicle in conditions you're explicitly not intended to use it. Which is negligent and irresponsible. So there's that.


You can drive with your feet too, doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[bcsteeve]

Your are full of it anyway... your INTERPRETATION of the passage in the manual does not make it so. There is nothing in the manual that conflicts with what i did. The road I was on and the conditions present did not conflict with any "must not" or "do not" statement in the auto steer or tacc sections. I just looked.

There you go, Judgy McJudgeface

 

[bcsteeve]

You can drive with your feet too, doesn't make it a good idea.

is that specifically in the manual? If not, then you have no business judging because "common sense" isn't your argument, just manual rule breaking. If common sense were your concern, then you would have no problem with someone safely testing the limits of their vehicle's features.

 

[Knightshade]

is that specifically in the manual? If not, then you have no business judging because "common sense" isn't your argument, just manual rule breaking. If common sense were your concern, then you would have no problem with someone safely testing the limits of their vehicle's features.

Using a feature somewhere the manual explicitly tells you not to isn't "testing the limits of the feature"


It's ignoring the limits and doing whatever the hell you want.

Personal responsibility- give it a shot sometime.

 

[Knightshade]

Your are full of it anyway... your INTERPRETATION of the passage in the manual does not make it so. There is nothing in the manual that conflicts with what i did. The road I was on and the conditions present did not conflict with any "must not" or "do not" statement in the auto steer or tacc sections. I just looked.

There you go, Judgy McJudgeface

Except, they do, didn't actually read the manual mcface


Not sure what manual you read, but it wasn't for a Tesla.

Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully attentive driver on freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps.

You were driving on a two-way undivided road, not a limited access highway


And of course you admit in the very first post:

FWIW, I use Autopilot everywhere and I try to push it into uncomfortable scenarios.

 

[tomas]

Jeez, chill. You are entitled to use it however you wish as long as you remain ready to take over and don't endanger others. My issues:

1) Your title. Autopilot goof? No.
2) I've seen this movie before. People post a lot of AP experimentation threads. Then something really goes wrong. And they blame the car, the AP, Tesla, but not themselves.
3) Your attitude. You know you are operating outside the intended use at this point. Don't be so prickly if people point it out!

 

[Kilotango74]

Oh come on you manual-cops... enough. The law says not to go a single mph over the posted limit... are you telling me you adhere to that? And that's the law, not some corporation writing something in their manual solely to protect themselves from liability.

Give me a break. I did nothing irresponsible, or negligent, blah blah.

I for one am not trying to equate using AP off highway to breaking a law. I am merely asking why so many people are surprised or posting videos of AP failing when they are using it in a manner not intended by the manufacture or in a manner that the system is currently not capable of. That’s it. Tired of all the “WOW my AP doesn’t work and almost wrecked my car...” videos to find out yep, someone else using the AP in a manner not intended then surprised or focusing attention on it failing when it should be expected not to work in that instance.

 

[SammichLover]

It's ignoring the limits and doing whatever the hell you want.

Yeah, you're out in the weeds on this one. Well established the official CYA line in the manual isn't anywhere close to the functional limits.

 

[Kilotango74]

Yeah, you're out in the weeds on this one. Well established the official CYA line in the manual isn't anywhere close to the functional limits.

Would you expect it to be? Of course there is going to be some disparity. First the system is under going evolutionary changes consistently as it learns and adapts and it will eventually be able to operate off highway. They don’t update the CYA line, as you put it, every time there is an update. Second, it allows the system some padding so to speak, for those people who will push its limits. All I am saying is that off highway, people should expect it not to work, instead they expect the opposite.

 

[SammichLover]

Would you expect it to be?

No, absolutely not. For reasons you provide and more. Thus to find the limit of what it is useful for you can't stop there. QED Knightmare is out in the weeds.