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Barstow-Kingman

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Darmok, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Apologies if this has been discussed. The distance from the Barstow to Kingman superchargers is 210 miles with an elevation gain of about 1,500 feet. This is not doable in a 60 and is well beyond TM's stated ideal distance between SCs. There is nothing shown between those sites on the TM map through 2015. Perhaps when Elon takes his trip he will see that this segment needs something in the middle, or the great coast to coast SC highway will be for 85s only without a detour through Las Vegas. Needles is about the only thing in that gap and only 60 miles from Kingman, but a SC there would solve the problem and also provide some connectivity to Las Vegas and SW Arizona.
     
  2. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Yeah... that's a tough run; it's one of the only two places I've had to resort to "crawling" at @ 30mph on the should of the highway to deprive the local towing operator from a trophy. Started in Kingman with ~240 rated miles and got to Barstow with 1. My fault for not doing a MAX RANGE charge. There were strong head winds and I did ~70 most of the way...
     
  3. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Wow. So Kingman-Barstow can be a problem in an 85 with wind. That stretch can be cold too, which wouldn't help. Needles would seem the logical place to solve the problem.
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    #4 Lloyd, Jan 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
    Yes, but you can go Barstow - Las Vegas 151 miles, and then Las Vegas - Kingman 105 miles

    Edit..............................

    46 miles out of your way, but you still get the trip done without worry of getting stuck in the desert!
     
  5. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    And who knows; the young Musk brothers may well have passed through Vegas on their cross country route together years ago... :wink:
     
  6. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Yes... IF you don't top off AND IF you drive 5-10 over the speed limit AND IF there are head winds. This was also starting out at the Sunrise RV park which is a little further East than the Kingman SC. That was my first Kingman-Barstow run... I've since done it 5 more times and all 5 I arrived at Kingman or Barstow with ~30 miles on the battery. Basically an 85 can do Kingman-Barstow easy if the driver is smart about it :redface:

    On another note... you can also take the old route 66 which shaves off a few miles but adds A LOT of time; It's a gorgeous route to take... I think there were a couple unpaved sections though so I would't recommend it for people that baby their cars.

    It does appear that Barstow-Vegas-Kingman is the route Tesla has planned for the 60s... and the 85s that think speed limits are just a suggestion.... :wink:
     
  7. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    With the distance I think some people will get stuck out there if weather conditions change and for 60s it's not possible without the detour. 85s might have more issues if the batteries lose capacity over time. As a 60 owner I hope there won't be many gaps in the system like that, though I'll never have to do Barstow-Kingman so that particular route isn't an issue. Some long segments might not have a detour like LV provides in this case. At 210 miles it has to be one of the longest segments between two points that are designed to be connected.
     
  8. Pricee2

    Pricee2 Member

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    #8 Pricee2, Jan 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
    "
    "


    I also think Needles needs a SC so that you can get to Quartzite and on to Phoenix without having to go through Indio or Kingman.
     
  9. Kraken

    Kraken Member

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    haha, reminds me of my only long road trip so far in the s... On my way back from Vegas and going to Barstow the traffic gets horrid. I am getting passed on this side road that I see on the map. So next exit, the small town before primm, I get off the highway to try it.... Bad choice traffic is horrible people getting back on the highway that went that way. I'm not fully realizing that that is the reason until I try that little road and realize a lot of people are turning around ahead of me.... So I turn around I lose an hour in that traffic that is getting back onto the highway (so I effectively hit the worst part of the traffic for those who took the shortcut and those who didnt.)

    as I'm in traffic I research that road and find out that sure enough it turns into a dirt road and then peters out into the desert (or possibly fully dead ends, it the right 4 wheel drive vehicle wouldn't care)...

    Sure enough, shortly before primm the traffic is bad still/again... But I notice out of the corner of my eye that I am passing one guy. A couple hundred feet to the left of the road is this Prius slowly meandering his way between the desert brush and uneven terrain.... Man I'm glad I didn't press my luck with the tesla and become that guy....
     
  10. cjc9er

    cjc9er Member

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    I'm also a fan of the old Route 66 option through Oatman as the best way to get from Kingman to Barstow. It's more scenic and fewer miles than diverting to Lake Havasu City for an RV park or Nissan dealership charge. For those of us doing long distance travel to or from California, there's always the option of spending the night somewhere in between superchargers and getting a slow charge there with minimal inconvenience. One other option - a brief stop at one of the RV parks near Needles for 45 minutes or so.

    Also, we should never minimize the mental health benefits of steering completely clear of Las Vegas!
     
  11. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    When traffic on I-15 from LV to Barstow gets backed up like that, which occurs many Sundays as people head back to LA, would it make sense instead to drop down to I-40 on Highway 95? It adds about 85 miles, but if the usual 2.5 hour trip to Barstow is 6 hours, it would probably make sense.

    As for the Route 66 detour to cut the mileage down from Kingman to Barstow, that makes sense, but I still think that with a 210 mile gap between superchargers the segment is a good candidate for something in between. Or if people want to come through Las Vegas, that's great, just drop some money downtown while the car charges at 701 E. Bridger.
     
  12. napabill

    napabill Active Member

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    +1 Amen, brother. Been there, done that as well.
     
  13. cjc9er

    cjc9er Member

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    Just completed a run from the Kingman supercharger to the Barstow supercharger in my 60 and made it with a few miles to spare at an average speed of 72 mph on the I-40 portion. The key is to take the old route 66 through Oatman, which has views to forever and offers a nice change of pace from all the interstate driving. The piece from Kingman to Oatman to Needles is only about 200 watt-hours/mile and you can pick up I-40 from there with juice to spare...
     
  14. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    Good to know.

    Do you think you had enough to spare for Barstow to Kingman on the way back, considering the elevation gain?
     
  15. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Disappointing that a portion of the famed cross country path is unusable by 60s without a detour with no relief on the map.
     
  16. cjc9er

    cjc9er Member

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    I think it's entirely dependent on the wind. The wind seemed to be more from the south than the west today. If it were humming out of the west, that could plausibly get you across the same stretch eastbound, but make the westbound trip more challenging.

    Also important to remember that I didn't tap into any of the "below-zero" battery reserve everyone talks about on these forums -- maybe 12-18 miles if I remember correctly. I also didn't attempt to drive below the speed limit a little to conserve juice, which would also help.

    The only reason the Kingman-Oatman-Needles route looks so slow is that much of the road has sharp turns in it with posted speed limits of 15-45 mph. But there's hardly anyone on the road and generally good visibility, so it's easy to make much better time than that, particularly on the long straight sections between the Colorado River and Oatman, and from just below Sitgreaves Pass all the way to Kingman.

    Google Maps says going the Oatman route lengthens the trip by 22 minutes vs. doing the whole thing on I-40, but trims off 12 miles. I found that it only lengthened the trip about 10 minutes today, so it's arguably faster than doing the whole thing on I-40 below the speed limit to conserve range. There are also electricity backup options in both directions that would add a little margin of safety - a campground in Newberry Springs just before you get to Barstow and the KOA in Needles just before Kingman. 30-45 minutes charging at either would get you enough range to not have to worry about it even if the weather is uncooperative.
     
  17. Tinky

    Tinky Member

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    Please take it easy on Vegas - if it was so bad why is it so busy. It is another city with good and bad.
     
  18. Ed Hart

    Ed Hart Member

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    Very helpful discussion. I will be coming back from Flagstaff through Kingman to Barstow in an 85 next week. I will plan on driving at 60 mph, on the K-B leg. Thanks, folks.
     
  19. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    Since there is mention of taking historic route 66 between Barstow and Kingman, please note that portions of this road have been closed for months due to flood damage.


    However, this doesn't impact the Kingman-Oatman-Topock leg in Arizona which cuts the mileage off the purely I-40 route.


    http://www.sbcounty.gov/dpw/transportation/road_closures.asp

    Route 66 road closures California.jpg
     

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