Better car/options for my $45K challenge

[SpiceWare]

I'm confused...

Yeah, there's a problem with the wingdings...

I did a quick download/open/save-to-iCloud on my Mac and it looks OK in Numbers.

 

[Barklikeadog]

interesting how you put 15in touchscreen and X out the others as if they don't have one.
How about: Touchscreen controls

Same goes for rim size, like the 17in rims or whatever they are won't get the job done.

 

[Ken7]

You also need AM and XM radios.

 

[KarenRei]

interesting how you put 15in touchscreen and X out the others as if they don't have one.
How about: Touchscreen controls

Same goes for rim size, like the 17in rims or whatever they are won't get the job done.

The goal would be to try to approximate as closely as you can, so that the features missing from one are roughly comparable to the features missing from the other.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

You also need AM and XM radios.

Lol. This is a joke right. Both have the audio quality of cassette tape. On my 3rd Model S and never used either due to streaming services. Might want to add a rotary dial phone.

I think the only use case for XM is if you live in askackistan and you have no link to a cell tower.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Lol. This is a joke right. Both have the audio quality of cassette tape. On my 3rd Model S and never used either due to streaming services. Might want to add a rotary dial phone.

I think the only use case for XM is if you live in askackistan and you have no link to a cell tower.

SiriusXM only has about 31 million subscribers

 

[xav-]

cali is so lucky to get 10k off the car. However, it is extremely expensive state to live in.

Yes and electricity is pretty expensive. In Texas electricity is like 1/3rd of the price it is here.. operating the car there will cost virtually nothing compared to gas. Not sure the $2,500 rebate makes up for that alone. In CA savings by switching to electricity are much more limited, unless driving a ton.

 

[xav-]

with tesla people should know by now to wait a year or 2 to buy a new model for tesla to work out the bugs. In 2 yrs there will be way more ev options from other companies.Be patient

More EV options from other companies but with many bugs as well. It will take YEARS for them to catch up with tesla who is by far the leader in this area.

By the way I have heard about competition for years. Model S have been out for 5 years by the way and so far I have not seen a single descent alternative. I personally consider Chevy bolt as a failure, Nissan Leaf as a gigantic failure. I am being objective.. nobody in the market likes those cars other than green activists.

If anything those cars are giving a bad name to EV.

The way this is going I won't be surprised a decade from now if we see major auto brands ending like blackberry, and we see new startups successfully emerge.

 

[KarenRei]

Bolt strikes me as a "they almost got it". They understood that people want actual highway range. They understood that acceleration matters, albeit they didn't take it as far as they should have. GM's battery management is (unlike Nissan's) pretty good. Etc. They got a lot of things right.

... and then they styled it like an econobox (totally out of line with its price class), fitted out the interior like an econobox, wimped out on fast charging, and did nothing to present the company as actually being dedicated to an EV future. The vehicle comes across as, "See hippies, here's your hair shirt - love us now? Now where do we pick up our ZEV credits...."

Which is a shame. Because they almost got it right.

The Ioniq is another "nearly got it" vehicle. They actually did see the need for fast charging, and while it also comes across as an econobox, it's priced like one, too. But the range is low, and they basically threw performance out the window. 4-seater will also turn off some buyers (even though it wouldn't bother me). Still, I can envision that there may be a market for it until someone attacks its segment with a fast charging vehicle with better range and performance.

Leaf is just all wrong. Expensive, poor range, not fast charging, poorly managed battery... bloody everything. That they sold so many is a testament to how underserved the EV market is. My god, how did auto manufacturers miss the pent-up EV demand for so long? Do they not do market surveys?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

SiriusXM only has about 31 million subscribers

PT Barnum was right. I tolerated their service for several years and finally gave up on them and moved to Spotify and streaming services. The compression on their music service was horrible. ( I don't know if it still is)
Regular Audio (talk shows) I am sure are tolerable, but I don't listen to anything anymore on radio or TV due to the crap they are pumping out. They are selling to the extremes in the market and I'm not listening or supporting them with my money anymore.

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase closely associated with P. T. Barnum

 

[Barklikeadog]

If anything those cars are giving a bad name to EV.

The way this is going I won't be surprised a decade from now if we see major auto brands ending like blackberry, and we see new startups successfully emerge.

I think ICE will be around longer than people expect.
It has taken tesla over a decade to get to a point of manufacturing a significant amount of autos... and that point is next year.
Startups that don't even exist right now will have to start producing millions of vehicles yearly to close the doors on major manufacturers.

Tens of millions of drivers currently are unable to have a car charger and that is unlikely to change anytime soon.

The average age of vehicles on the road: 12years. The 15 million ICE cars sold this year will still be on the road in 20 years.
A decade from now, maybe only 7 million cars sold will be ICE... those cars will then be on the roads for 20 years.

I know everyone here is giddy and celebrating the end of ICE vehicles, but they will still be around for decades.


I don't mean to sound like an enemy, I enjoy these discussions and like to play devil's advocate, but I read so many posts here and all I can
think about is the flying car. For the last 50 years... the flying car is almost here!!! Bye bye conventional auto!!

 

[Barklikeadog]

PT Barnum was right. I tolerated their service for several years and finally gave up on them and moved to Spotify and streaming services. The compression on their music service was horrible. ( I don't know if it still is)
Regular Audio (talk shows) I am sure are tolerable, but I don't listen to anything anymore on radio or TV due to the crap they are pumping out. They are selling to the extremes in the market and I'm not listening or supporting them with my money anymore.

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase closely associated with P. T. Barnum

So, because everyone else doesn't have the same listening preference as you they are fools?

 

[lux_cars]

I am leaning pretty hard towards the early model 3 with AP, non-black for $55K. With federal and California credit /rebate it should cost me $45K. That's more than I have ever spent on a car and more than I budgeted. I don't think there is anything close to consider instead, but I would be interested in other's suggestions of better equipped alternatives. I know that the model 3 does not have everything that other $45k vehicles have (ie I just drove my in-laws Lexus es350 with heated & air conditioned seats and thought hmmmm these are nice) . What creature comforts am I giving up that are not uncommon in this price range? I will start the list :

• Heated steering wheel
• Air conditioned seats
• XM radio
• ???

Please list at least 1 car you know it's included on in this price range

To answer your original question, Model 3 seems like a great car in its class but there are a few things you're unlikely to get when comparing to a loaded Mercedes C-Class or Audi A5/A4.

1. Seat ventilation as you mentioned.
2. Much more adjustability in seats, e.g., extendable thigh support/cushion (even S/X don't have this yet).
3. Full LCD instrument cluster.
4. Heads up display.
5. Apple Car Play.
6. Soft close doors? (Not sure if offered in this class by anyone yet)
7. Better quality interior if you opt for topline interior such as Mercedes Designo.
8. Plus more use of premium materials e.g. leather on dash and on doortops instead of plastic.
8. I suspect Mercedes C-Class will have a more refined, comfortable ride with less tire and wind noise than 3. (I'm thinking about Model S vs. MB S-Class ride/quietness).
9. Rear and side windows sunshades.
10. In-cabin fragrance diffuser.
11. Ambient lighting throughtout/along dash instead of just in foot wells and door pockets. Plus more color choices for ambient lighting.
12. Super advanced adaptive LED headlights (e.g. Audi Matrix LED) that basically allow you to drive on high-beams all the time without creating glare for other drivers. I was told these would be allowed in US in 2018 but they aren't currently.

But don't forget to take into account gas savings with Model 3.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

So, because everyone else doesn't have the same listening preference as you they are fools?

I'm not saying that. Im saying that XM sound quality is terrible and I wouldn't exclude a car because it doesn't have the service.

My listening preferences dont matter I added that for context on why I wouldn't ever buy services packed with ads or crap talk radio.

You were comparing technical specs of a car. Here are some specs for you. Compare XM to the audio system in the Tesla and see which one has better quality and far more content.

The sound quality of Sirius and XM signals via their satellites (or terrestrial repeaters) is, basically, terrible. The reason is bitrate. The two satellites use different systems, but both have around 4MHz of bandwidth to share amongst ALL the channels broadcast.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-sound-quality-of-SiriusXM-radio-Is-it-better-than-standard-radio

I suspect tesla will reuse some the components from the s on the 3

How Tesla developed the in-car audio system for the Model S saloon

Not trying to fight. Trying to educate.

I guess I have had to much to drink on this cruise ship and I need to stop posting today. On second through it's time for another Makers and Coke and a nap or another trip to the endless food bar.
No more posts today!!! I promise. Peace dude.

 

[chadever]

You give up easily.

I made that point on this forum.
The reason I did is because Tesla buyers spend more. Most of the Model S owners had previous vehicles under $60,000... and they were buying $80k sedans.
The same thing is going to happen for Model 3 buyers. Someone who would typically spend 30k on a car will spend 45k because it's a Tesla.

The other reason is simple math.
BMW only sells 70k 3-series each year in the USA, 70k C-Class, 30k A4.... All the other entry level luxury sales are in this area.
There are 400,000 USA reservations for the Model 3. I am going to assume that C-Class, 3series, and A4 sales won't fall to 0 next year.
The Model 3 reservations must be coming from somewhere else, the only logical place are from owners of Civic, Camry, Accord, etc which
sell millions every year.

So it seems reasonable to compare the classes of cars.

This!

And if you're buying a Civic, Camry, Accord, etc there is a good chance you plan on keeping your car 10+ years. This means cost to own savings are even greater. Owners could easily save over 20k with tax credits over the life of the vehicle.

Just ask my 1999 Accord. The transmission went out a year ago so we got my wife a new minivan and now I drive her old car. If not for the Tesla Model 3 I would have already purchased a 20-30k Subaru.

 

[EVNow]

SiriusXM only has about 31 million subscribers

I guess most of them drive rolling coal ?

 

[EVNow]

Leaf is just all wrong. Expensive, poor range, not fast charging, poorly managed battery... bloody everything. That they sold so many is a testament to how underserved the EV market is. My god, how did auto manufacturers miss the pent-up EV demand for so long? Do they not do market surveys?

I guess 6 years is a long time. In 2011, Leaf was next only to sliced bread.

One thing Nissan gets compared to others is - EV is the future and they want to sell EVs. They sold so many Leafs because they were committed to selling them.

BTW, are you the same Karen who used to post in Aptera forum ?

 

[chronopc]

SiriusXM only has about 31 million subscribers

What is even on SiriusXM besides Howard Stern?

 

[Barklikeadog]

I'm not saying that. Im saying that XM sound quality is terrible and I wouldn't exclude a car because it doesn't have the service.

My listening preferences dont matter I added that for context on why I wouldn't ever buy services packed with ads or crap talk radio.

You were comparing technical specs of a car. Here are some specs for you. Compare XM to the audio system in the Tesla and see which one has better quality and far more content.

The sound quality of Sirius and XM signals via their satellites (or terrestrial repeaters) is, basically, terrible. The reason is bitrate. The two satellites use different systems, but both have around 4MHz of bandwidth to share amongst ALL the channels broadcast.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-sound-quality-of-SiriusXM-radio-Is-it-better-than-standard-radio

I suspect tesla will reuse some the components from the s on the 3

How Tesla developed the in-car audio system for the Model S saloon

Not trying to fight. Trying to educate.

I guess I have had to much to drink on this cruise ship and I need to stop posting today. On second through it's time for another Makers and Coke and a nap or another trip to the endless food bar.
No more posts today!!! I promise. Peace dude.

i think you are going overboard with your posts.

Yea I had to say it

 

[insaneoctane]

To answer your original question, Model 3 seems like a great car in its class but there are a few things you're unlikely to get when comparing to a loaded Mercedes C-Class or Audi A5/A4.

1. Seat ventilation as you mentioned.
2. Much more adjustability in seats, e.g., extendable thigh support/cushion (even S/X don't have this yet).
3. Full LCD instrument cluster.
4. Heads up display.
5. Apple Car Play.
6. Soft close doors? (Not sure if offered in this class by anyone yet)
7. Better quality interior if you opt for topline interior such as Mercedes Designo.
8. Plus more use of premium materials e.g. leather on dash and on doortops instead of plastic.
8. I suspect Mercedes C-Class will have a more refined, comfortable ride with less tire and wind noise than 3. (I'm thinking about Model S vs. MB S-Class ride/quietness).
9. Rear and side windows sunshades.
10. In-cabin fragrance diffuser.
11. Ambient lighting throughtout/along dash instead of just in foot wells and door pockets. Plus more color choices for ambient lighting.
12. Super advanced adaptive LED headlights (e.g. Audi Matrix LED) that basically allow you to drive on high-beams all the time without creating glare for other drivers. I was told these would be allowed in US in 2018 but they aren't currently.

But don't forget to take into account gas savings with Model 3.

Excellent reply, thank you. I see some things that would be nice, but nothing that upsets me. Interesting how the smooth power delivery of EV helps counter other NVH aspects of ICE comparisons in my mind. While it seems unlikely that I won't be able to justify that "I don't need that" for many creature comforts, I feel better about hearing of them and deciding that. If it starts to add up, then I need to reconsider. So far so good. I just don't know this segment well because I have never shopped here before