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BMW, Audi to Blitz Tesla With High-End Competition - Finance
- Thread starter Gavars Gints
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huntjo
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Girl in the middle says it best: "Then why haven't they done it yet"
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Well that is just ridiculous. That guy clearly hasn't done his homework. I don't know how he can even think of comparing the i8 to the Model S. It's apples and oranges. The i8 is going to fall flat on its face. No smart person is going to buy it this over the Model S.
There is only one +1 I give to the i8 - looks. I do think it looks cool. Nice sport coupe even though its still much slower than teh P85 and without the 17" console and without rear facing child seats and missing this and that and this and that. It's crap. Sorry BMW. Probably an expensive waste of time for you. Try again. And that reporter should try to read something about the BMW i8 before he tries to talk about it again.
- First off, ITS A HYBRID. Not an EV. Still burns gas. Still gonna cost you $$ in gas.
- Second, in addition to bullet 1, since you have an ICE engine, that means addition maintenance costs of the ICE engine (plus parts breaking which we know BMW is exceptionally good at designing cars that fall apart after warranty and are expensive to repair). Oh, plus oil changes.
- third, the price STARTS at $135k. Out of reach of EVERYONE pretty much.
- fourth, IT'S STILL SLOWER THAN THE P85. The P85 has been rated 0-60 in 3.9sec by many VTECHs. The BMW i8 is 0-60 in 4.4sec.
- fifth, it has a wimpy 7kWh battery and can only go 22 IDEAL miles on battery juice alone. The Tesla Model S can do 15 times that amount, and for half the cost.
- sixth, electric top speed is called at 75mph. The P85 can do 133mph.
- seventh, being and ICE vehcile with an ICE engine, you'll lose the "frunk".
- eighth, it's probably not going to get top consumer reports and 5 start crash safety either.
There is only one +1 I give to the i8 - looks. I do think it looks cool. Nice sport coupe even though its still much slower than teh P85 and without the 17" console and without rear facing child seats and missing this and that and this and that. It's crap. Sorry BMW. Probably an expensive waste of time for you. Try again. And that reporter should try to read something about the BMW i8 before he tries to talk about it again.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
All great points. However, don't underestimate the number of people who will do no more than that guy obviously did; look at a picture and go "mmm...BMW.....so puuurty..." and think it gives them EV cred to drive it.
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Indeed, Andrea James from Dougherty & Co. has been quite a champion of TSLA for some time now, she put a price target of $200 when it was seen as outrageous... then TSLA continued to climb and now she's seen as far ahead-of-the-curve. She does a nice job defending here, wish she had more time to make the case.
At the end of the day, even though BMW i8 looks good, it will be held up against the Model S and pale in comparison -- the same thing is happening already to Porsche:
http://www.technologyreview.com/vie...-out-accelerates-porsches-new-plug-in-hybrid/
At the end of the day, even though BMW i8 looks good, it will be held up against the Model S and pale in comparison -- the same thing is happening already to Porsche:
http://www.technologyreview.com/vie...-out-accelerates-porsches-new-plug-in-hybrid/
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Matt Miller doesn't really seem to know what he's talking about. The i8 is a gorgeous car, but I think it'll do terrible, up to 22miles of electric, and a starting price of $135k. Teslas starting price excluding the 60kWh is $80k. Thats a fifty-five thousand dollar difference. The i8 with its tiny battery will also only qualify for a $35oo tax credit, and most likely max out around $155k, to Teslas $130k. Just doesn't seem like he did any of his research.
Love when Andrea James calls him out saying then why don't they. Maybe they really think there isn't a market for fully electric vehicle with 5star crash test ratings. but people would rather for 25 miles in a chevy volt.
Love when Andrea James calls him out saying then why don't they. Maybe they really think there isn't a market for fully electric vehicle with 5star crash test ratings. but people would rather for 25 miles in a chevy volt.
just to add to yobigd20's list,
the i8 technically is a 4 seater, but I don't think anyone will want to be in those backseats for more than a brief ride. The Model S is a sports sedan and a family car, the i8 is basically a sports car.
the i8 technically is a 4 seater, but I don't think anyone will want to be in those backseats for more than a brief ride. The Model S is a sports sedan and a family car, the i8 is basically a sports car.
Which, in summary to yobigd20 and SteveG3's list, is that the i8 isn't really in competition with the Model S. They would sell to completely different buyers. The only thing they have in common is that they both sell to people that can afford them and they both have batteries. That's it. They shouldn't be brought up together at all. The sales of one is not going to have any effect on the other. Maybe, just maybe, the Model S Performance Plus might prevent a few people from buying the i8 since it has better performance chops over that car. Honestly, a used Roadster is a closer match to the i8 for half the price. News people just don't get it. Their lack of perspective is like fingernails on a blackboard.
Matt Miller's perspective on Tesla is so uninformed it is laughable. Andrea knows the company pretty well but could have brought up better arguments.
A sports car that's slower off the line the a 7-seat sedan?? So the i8 is a sports car only for appearances.
More ridiculous even is the "road coupled" parallel hybrid concept as was so aptly named by BMW's head of engineering. The battery can only be charged through the losses of two drive trains and four tires. BMW are entirely clueless how to integrate motor and engine.
Likewise the battery arrangement is 1990's technology, as outdated as the EV1, on par to the Volt, but very inferior to Tesla in terms of center of gravity and interior space.
As long as BMW remain mirred in their combustion engine heritage there's no way they'll outlive the likes of Kodak or Digital Equipment.
More ridiculous even is the "road coupled" parallel hybrid concept as was so aptly named by BMW's head of engineering. The battery can only be charged through the losses of two drive trains and four tires. BMW are entirely clueless how to integrate motor and engine.
Likewise the battery arrangement is 1990's technology, as outdated as the EV1, on par to the Volt, but very inferior to Tesla in terms of center of gravity and interior space.
As long as BMW remain mirred in their combustion engine heritage there's no way they'll outlive the likes of Kodak or Digital Equipment.
Adm
Active Member
I think the biggest flaw in the argument is that he assumes that all i8 sales will eat away Model S sales, but that is obviously not the case. The i8 will "steal" some sales from Porsche, MB, Audi and others as well, not in the least from BMW's own 5,6 and 7 series clients.
The i8 will cost some Model S sales but not desturbingly so. At best it will create more interest for Tesla as it will introduce more people to what it's like to drive an electric car.
The i8 will cost some Model S sales but not desturbingly so. At best it will create more interest for Tesla as it will introduce more people to what it's like to drive an electric car.
The i8 probably has the market potential the Fisker Karma had. So maybe a few thousand sales worldwide. What Tesla produces in 2-4 weeks time.
By the way, why are they also talking about Audi? That company doesn't have anything in the pipeline to compete with the Model S, they actually scrapped cars.
By the way, why are they also talking about Audi? That company doesn't have anything in the pipeline to compete with the Model S, they actually scrapped cars.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
Indeed! I actually muttered "Karma" to myself as I watched the video clip of the i8. Pretty body, but no substance.
I checked it out and was laughing all the way - 36km electric range, renewable power is like 5% of the whole and yet is presented as the way things are if ya drive our baby
and all in all ad people were trying real hard to portraye the car as future rather than what it is, complicated, bony and expensive to use, maintain and repair... basicaly they did this car just t get some green points rather than serious attempt and left to advertisement company to make it into something glorious... i dont envy them theyre job since anyone with half a brain will be able to tell the difference straight away... and people with enough money usualy have at least half a brain This car couldave been something maybe 5 years ago, now its just a grab at some green points with no real results to show for it as an electric hybrid even, let alone electric vehicle!
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@Gavars - interesting video, IMHO... the current state of "competitors" reminds me of when the iPod first came out and transformed the industry. At that time, the portable music player was synonymous with the Walkman. It seems like other car companies are still putting out CD players (i.e. PHEVs) as their best effort to advance from cassette players (ICE).
Even worse, they're doing this to go green, not to play music better.
Soon, they'll come to their senses, and go into EVs -- it's coming, but, it will be similar to when Microsoft came out with the much anticipated "Zune" -- Apple was just too far ahead already.
By the time, companies like Microsoft and Sony actually figured out mp3 players, Apple had already jumped ahead with the iPhone.
All that said, I'm guessing (after reading more about BMW's stance) that they're going to make a run (unsuccessfully) at Tesla soon:
Tesla Prompts BMW To Consider An i5 Competitor - HybridCars.com
Even worse, they're doing this to go green, not to play music better.
Soon, they'll come to their senses, and go into EVs -- it's coming, but, it will be similar to when Microsoft came out with the much anticipated "Zune" -- Apple was just too far ahead already.
By the time, companies like Microsoft and Sony actually figured out mp3 players, Apple had already jumped ahead with the iPhone.
All that said, I'm guessing (after reading more about BMW's stance) that they're going to make a run (unsuccessfully) at Tesla soon:
Tesla Prompts BMW To Consider An i5 Competitor - HybridCars.com
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I hadn't heard about the "road coupled" charging before. That sounds like a total disaster to me; think of the wear on the tires! When you're just cruising on the freeway, instead of the tires just rolling, two of them are pushing while two of them are pulling...
This was my thought as well. Audi only has 1 hybrid right now. At a $15k premium over its ICE counterpart with only marginally better gas mileage. They are pushing their TDI right now. And it doesn't seem like they've done anything with the e-tron since it was talked about back in 2009. I do love the commercial of everyone freaking out when the woman is putting diesel in her A6.
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