I really like how those taillights float in the back glass. But I really don't like how you can see everything in the car from the outside.
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BMW i
- Thread starter dpeilow
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tommolog
Member
I had a chance to talk with a few of the BMW EV program managers at the show on Wednesday. The glass on the lower part of the car obviously won't make it to production, but a lot of the styling you see here will. I was told this car is 85-90% what you'll see in production. The roof will be CFRP, not glass, but the "U" headlight and taillight design will carry over to production. Don't know if it will be floating on a glass hatch like the concept here though, probably not. EPA range rating is expected to be in the 90's. It launches next September and there will be range extender option that will add 80-100miles to the range but the car won't be as peppy in charge sustaining mode.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That's a shame, because I mostly think the i3 looks like crap. :crying: I hope the aerodynamics come out much better than I'm expecting and the car has such amazing efficiency that the looks won't bother me.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
tommolog
Member
BMW isn't going to announce the availability yet, but I believe the plan now is to offer it right from the launch. I haven't been able to get anybody to give me an estimated price for the option yet though. You and I have talked about the EPA range a bit, I can tell you now I'm confident the EPA range will be between 90 & 95. It's achieving 130 miles on the LA-4 Cycle test (LEAF had a 100 mile range on the LA-4 Cycle test) and that will translate to a low 90's EPA rating.
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The i8 charging option looks very susceptible to weather -- would you want to be charging outside in the rain, with the charging port facing upwards?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Given Infiniti EV announcement of 24 kWh pack, I'm not sure what my next car will be. i3 may be back in favor, if it does get about 90 mile range. Though, lack of CHAdeMO might demote it again - just like Model S has gone down in my list.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
tommolog
Member
It will have DC quick charge, but it doesn't look like it will be CHAdeMO at this point. As long as the SAE actually formalizes the DC plug we've been reading about this summer like they are expected to, that will be what is used. Charging times will be 3 to 3.5 hours level 2 (7.7kW) and 80% in under 1/2 hour using DC-QC.
As for the Infinity, I really am shocked they are using the same size battery as the LEAF. Given that's correct and it is the same size, it must have an even shorter range, no? Where are they going with this? I really can't believe that is as big a pack as they are offering. Maybe that will be the the standard pack and you can pay for an upgrade like Tesla's model? That car needs a 35kWh pack at the minimum in my opinion.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
With all the trouble people are having with QC, I'd rather buy a car that has the port that most nearby chargers have rather than some std someone came up with in a committe - but no one is spending money to implement on the ground. Hopefully they will figure out an easy way to offer both CHAdeMO and SAE plugs in all chargers.
A BMW engineer told me they plan to support whatever the market requirement is prior to launch...
tommolog
Member
David: While it is possible, at this point I believe the SAE would have to put off adopting an official standard for a awhile for BMW to go with something else(CHAdeMO) for the US market. I believe BMW will go with the SAE standard(provided they approve it this summer as expected) for the US and consider other options for Europe and Asia. If the SAE does formally approve the combo plug we've seen recently, expect to see it on the i3. I also believe it will end up on the Chevy Spark, and offered as an option on the 2013 Ford Focus EV.
It's going to be messy for a while. Hopefully these things will sort themselves out in the next couple years. There's still nothing installed anywhere near me so I don't think anyone has any advantage yet. If there were a couple dozen or so CHAdeMO chargers in the Tri-State area already(or in every large city!), I think I'd be personally pushing BMW to consider using that instead. Does anyone know how many CHAdeMO chargers are currently installed in the US?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The CHAdeMO plug was designed by committee too (by the CHAdeMO Association!).
In the US, I think given the situation with J1772, I don't expect the DC situation to be much different. CHAdeMO has some chargers on the ground in the US, but not enough for much of a head start, given the first SAE chargers will be out later this year (the US charger manufacturers have already indicated they will support the standard).
In Europe, the IEC 162196-3 DC counterpart will have the 3-phase trump card (43kW 3-phase vs. 50kW CHAdeMO). There is at least one BMW ActiveE with the IEC DC socket (from my previous post):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php?p=104397#post104397
There are no BMW prototypes with a CHAdeMO socket as far as I know.
CHAdeMO has a firm hold in Japan, but it's still far from certain in the US and Europe.
BMW is one of the supporters of J1772 DC charging...
"Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States"
7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHAdeMO [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum
GSP
"Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States"
7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHAdeMO [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum
GSP
tommolog
Member
Correct. BMW will offer level 3 DC on the i3 when it launches next year. If for some reason the SAE hasn't formalized their J1772 combo plug then I believe BMW will have a CHAdeMO port on the car. However if the SAE does formally adopt the combo plug we've seen this summer as expected, then that will definitely be on the i3's that ship to the US. Either way, it will have level 3 DC charging capabilities that charge it to 80% in under a half hour. Since it's only a 22kWh pack total with 20 usable(my guess) I'm thinking it will do it in 20 minutes or so since it will only need about 16kWh to reach 80%.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not much - but by the time i3 comes out west coast hopefully will have a lot of CHAdeMO chargers. There are EV Project chargers, state funded chargers (both WA & OR) - and then the recent CA settlement to have a utility build hundreds of chargers.
The problem with QC is not really chargers - it is the infrastructure. It is very expensive in most places to get a high voltage connection and in many places monthly minimum fees is exhorbitant. This is the reason why QC roll out has been so slow, even with hundreds of millions in grants.
Given all this, who will be rolling out a SAE charger infrastructure ? Will the group of seven fund a SAE QC infrastructure ?
It would be interesting to see what BMW does - if SAE approves their new port - but there are no SAE chargers on the ground, unlike a hundred or so CHAdeMO, by 2013.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nowhere does it say the CA chargers have to be CHAdeMO (it just says 200 fast chargers). As for the installation costs, it would be the same for both types of sockets. I think Nissan will probably be the biggest backer of CHAdeMO (esp. in dealers); it also has cheaper chargers available.
There are also virtually no CHAdeMO chargers on the ground right now in the US (except for a handful). Most of the planned ones will be installed this year. If SAE is really done with the standard by summer, the chargers should be ready by 2013 at the latest. I don't really see BMW (and the other major makes) backing away from the standard unless it is delayed.
They have already done testing using the European counterpart (IEC 162196-3) and the i3 is guaranteed to have at least a level 2 socket using the Euro standard (so the DC extension makes more sense than a separate CHAdeMO port). The idea is probably similar for GM with the Spark. They don't have to work in extra space for another port (and the extra hardware and licensing). The Combo plug is a better solution unless it gets delayed too long.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
True. It will be interesting to see whether GM lobbyists make them install 200 SAE chargers for 200 or so Sparks they will sell per year or for thousands of Leafs already on the ground.
But who is doing all the legwork to find a host and install the chargers ?
When Nissan started selling Leaf with CHAdeMO there was a definite plan (and funding) to install chargers. Thats what motivated 80% of Leaf buyers to get the SL model with the QC port. Anyone buying i3 in 2014 will be asking BMW where the compatible chargers are and what plans are there to install them.
Atleast personally, I'd not buy i3 if they don't support whatever chargers there are at that point.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It seems BMW has the same amount of dedication as Nissan in terms of EVs (given their huge investment on the i-series). But they might leave the infrastructure to others (like Toyota and GM is doing).
At the very least, I bet they will build a couple of demonstration stations at dealers (so they can at least do a PR piece and get some pictures of a i3 charging at a quick charger). It may not be as huge a network as CHAdeMO will be by then (CHAdeMO would have had a 1-2 year head start). However, CHAdeMO's lead is definitely not large enough to be insurmountable.
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