Msjulie
Active Member
I honestly don't understand the mindset for people to complain about your choice of car ... uneducated or simple minded folks? Fear of some kind? Honestly just makes 0 sense...
Smart, laughing all the way to the bank.
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Bought a P3D- for many reasons - environmental consideration wasn't one of them
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I honestly don't understand the mindset for people to complain about your choice of car ... uneducated or simple minded folks? Fear of some kind? Honestly just makes 0 sense...
Smart, laughing all the way to the bank.
Your posts would carry more weight if you could cut back on the passive aggressiveness and the condescending tone. That’s just the truth and it would likely make folks more receptive to your points. Just food for thought.
GREAT call! To top it off, what if people actually started going to church like the guy wants and he continues to treat them the same way on Sunday? You have it in this very thread, and I'll dare say that buying a Tesla is a much more costly decision than deciding to try a church. So we're being ripped apart despite taking a huge leap and driving this car.
There are so many bad Christians out there and they never help anyone get in the door to church. You made a fantastic analogy. Even if the fear mongering crowd in here is correct, they shred people who are actually doing the right thing. You can't make it up!
Austindude
Member
Like many of you I bought my 3 for the greater performance, reliability, lower long term operating costs, home fueling convenience (aided by my solar panels) and yes, for the potential of a smaller environmental impact.
With a plethora of EV's coming out for sale over the next couple of years I am convinced that more ICE owners will buy these cars for many of the same reasons that I bought mine. If along the way it turns out that EV owners end up having less negative net impact on the environment, so be it.
As to the climate change and environment controversy, well I believe that no one is likely to change the position of another person simply by preaching their gospel at them or by beating the other person over the head with their opinion.
Regardless of one's position on this controversy everyone should be encouraged to examine how climate change (no matter what the cause, manmade or otherwise) will be impacting our lives.
As others have said, education is the key and any reading on the subject, even fiction (some would claim climate change is fiction), can lower the temperature and make discussion easier. There are many articles and books on the environmental impacts of climate change, both science and science fiction based, so read. If fiction is your escape then may I suggest "Seeds of Our Future" on Amazon.
Hopefully through education and meaningful discussion we can all at least address the effects of climate change on our lives if not agree on the causes or solutions.
Happy motoring - electric motoring that is, go Tesla!
With a plethora of EV's coming out for sale over the next couple of years I am convinced that more ICE owners will buy these cars for many of the same reasons that I bought mine. If along the way it turns out that EV owners end up having less negative net impact on the environment, so be it.
As to the climate change and environment controversy, well I believe that no one is likely to change the position of another person simply by preaching their gospel at them or by beating the other person over the head with their opinion.
Regardless of one's position on this controversy everyone should be encouraged to examine how climate change (no matter what the cause, manmade or otherwise) will be impacting our lives.
As others have said, education is the key and any reading on the subject, even fiction (some would claim climate change is fiction), can lower the temperature and make discussion easier. There are many articles and books on the environmental impacts of climate change, both science and science fiction based, so read. If fiction is your escape then may I suggest "Seeds of Our Future" on Amazon.
Hopefully through education and meaningful discussion we can all at least address the effects of climate change on our lives if not agree on the causes or solutions.
Happy motoring - electric motoring that is, go Tesla!
Austindude
Member
And my wife just added she doesn't know about all that reliability stuff she just loves the way the Model 3 drives! Nuf said.
^^^^^^^^THIS is how you do it. Well said. People will listen to this.
All of this is true. I was studying the hard sciences (biology, chemistry, physics) in the 70's and the clear consensus back then was that we were at significant risk for catastrophic global cooling. Even NASA scientists and the CIA were on board with this. The only difference is that now global warming is heavily politicized and is being promoted mainly for political reasons rather than scientific ones. Alarmists can write all the papers they want trying to debunk this but those of us who were there in the scientific community at the time know what the truth is.
I care about the environment and believe at least a portion of global warming is due to man made issues. That said my purchase of an EV hardly counts as more than a token effort. While an EV is “greener” than an ICE vehicle, a bicycle or public transportation would be far more environmentally friendly than any EV.
Austindude
Member
Yes I'm with you, I bike between 40 and 60 miles every week but it is only for exercise and never replaces my driving. Sometimes instead of taking my car I do opt for public transportation but not as often as I should.
We can debate what is going to happen in the future until the cows come home, but my goodness, you can't debate what the consensus was in the 70's. It actually happened! What you just wrote is exactly how it went down. At one point the government made the case to try to melt glaciers.
I'm having a hard time seeing how some of the science from nearly 50 years ago is relevant. That's how science works, hypothesize, test, refine. Imagine you went to a doctor and he diagnosed a head cold. It didn't get better, you go back in for more and better tests and they come back with a result of brain cancer. Do you refuse treatment because it was diagnosed as a head cold 5 years earlier?
Global cooling - Wikipedia
Global cooling - Wikipedia
COWS!!! They are the main problem! We need to eat more of them so they stop farting.
This reminds me to go to Costco after work to pick up some USDA Prime Ribeyes.
I can already taste them, grilled on charcoal - medium rare.
<Starshiptroopers-Im_doing_my_part.jpg>
As a fellow gear head I identify with the OP. My journey started in 2012 when I sold my 2002 BMW M5 and leased a Chevy Volt! My car guy friends were shocked (no pun intended). The BMW was a great car, but I was constantly working on it (when you buy an older BMW you get a cool car and a weekend hobby all in one).
When I first test drove the Volt, I pulled back into the dealership and was sort of like “Well crap...this is obviously the future”. As a gear head, I was actually a little bummed. One absolute joyous revelation was how the single speed EV drivetrain addressed, in one fell swoop, everything I hated about automatic transmissions...it was a Nirvana moment.
Three years later, I knew I wanted to be back in a sports sedan, but didn’t want to give up electric. Of course I ASSUMED there would be a lot more choices by the time my lease was up. Unfortunately, the selection wasn’t there. The plug in hybrids that were out had a fraction of the range of my Volt...so I waited and drove our ancient minivan for a year. I test drove the gen 2 Volt. Performance was better, but it mostly felt the same as the gen 1 car. I REALLY liked the way the Audi A3 Etron drove and felt but at 16 miles of EV range, it was just too little. I didn’t even bother test driving the 14 mile range BMW 330e...just not enough “electric”. The i3 was bizarre looking, but I eventually got over that. Unfortunately, I could not get over it’s crappy ride quality and other compromises like the suicide doors. Then Tesla introduced the CPO program and a few short months later I picked up a CPO 2013 Model S P85+. If I were a new buyer today, I would almost assuredly be in a P3D...and may still be at some point.
Who would have guessed that being a good “car” is the most important thing to “CAR” buyers?
Indeed, the complaints I have about Tesla all revolve around the areas where it falls down in making the car simply a better CAR. As an example, road and wind noise is simply unacceptable in these cars relative to their peers at similar price points. When the thrill of tech and acceleration begin to wane, these little daily annoyances become more important. Still, 7 years after I signed the lease on that Volt, there are few other options. As a car guy, I am not brand loyal yet and it does irk me a bit at the lack of selection in the EV space that really is compelling. I like the Jaguar I pace, but too pricey. The Mach e looks interesting...we’ll see.
When I first test drove the Volt, I pulled back into the dealership and was sort of like “Well crap...this is obviously the future”. As a gear head, I was actually a little bummed. One absolute joyous revelation was how the single speed EV drivetrain addressed, in one fell swoop, everything I hated about automatic transmissions...it was a Nirvana moment.
Three years later, I knew I wanted to be back in a sports sedan, but didn’t want to give up electric. Of course I ASSUMED there would be a lot more choices by the time my lease was up. Unfortunately, the selection wasn’t there. The plug in hybrids that were out had a fraction of the range of my Volt...so I waited and drove our ancient minivan for a year. I test drove the gen 2 Volt. Performance was better, but it mostly felt the same as the gen 1 car. I REALLY liked the way the Audi A3 Etron drove and felt but at 16 miles of EV range, it was just too little. I didn’t even bother test driving the 14 mile range BMW 330e...just not enough “electric”. The i3 was bizarre looking, but I eventually got over that. Unfortunately, I could not get over it’s crappy ride quality and other compromises like the suicide doors. Then Tesla introduced the CPO program and a few short months later I picked up a CPO 2013 Model S P85+. If I were a new buyer today, I would almost assuredly be in a P3D...and may still be at some point.
Who would have guessed that being a good “car” is the most important thing to “CAR” buyers?
Indeed, the complaints I have about Tesla all revolve around the areas where it falls down in making the car simply a better CAR. As an example, road and wind noise is simply unacceptable in these cars relative to their peers at similar price points. When the thrill of tech and acceleration begin to wane, these little daily annoyances become more important. Still, 7 years after I signed the lease on that Volt, there are few other options. As a car guy, I am not brand loyal yet and it does irk me a bit at the lack of selection in the EV space that really is compelling. I like the Jaguar I pace, but too pricey. The Mach e looks interesting...we’ll see.
Hmmm, that’s not how it “went down” everywhere. Up here in the PNW we had some of the hottest, driest weather. Massive drought. I distinctly remember stupid crazy ideas, like hauling icebergs from Antarctica for water, being “floated” as solutions to the problem. I was salmon fishing a couple of summers and the old guys were complaining that the ocean temperatures were too high and the fish were going elsewhere. Probably the “ pacific blob” as the weather folks call it today. So, no, just because you say “it actually happened” doesn’t make it true.
The differences that I’m seeing today: Nearly one foot sea level rise above when my grandparents bought and built a waterfront beach cabin. Massive forest fires from LA to the Arctic and hazardous air quality like I never experienced before. The last spring frost is getting earlier, to the point that some years it’s in February. First fall frost is getting later. Heavier rain and snow events, more wild swings between cold and hot, which make gardening much more difficult. Crops that used to be an easy slam dunk are exhibiting growing behaviors that I experienced in Texas. Since I have in excess of 50 years gardening experience, plus the stories and experiences of my parents and grandparents, I can tell you for a fact that there has been a significant warming.
Don’t worry, you’re free to believe anything you want, I won’t get in the way of your beliefs, but it won’t change the reality that I’ve already experienced. The warming is real, it happened, it’s happening, and it will only get worse in my lifetime. I’m not worried about me but I’d love to be around to see who pays for moving most of Florida, Miami, Houston, New Orleans, Norfolk, and a bunch of other places. Now that will be “interesting times.”
PS: Thanks for driving an American-built/powered EV and thanks for helping others do the same.
Incorrect. Fact check time.
Scientists were predicting warming. However, the media reported the minority position that were predicting an ice age as that was more juicy to publish.
What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?
Yes, you are right Toolman--ignorance is bliss.
Thus, profound ignorance is nirvana . . . for the likes of you.
(All we can hope for is that the millions of others walking the streets in willful ignorance may, eventually, be outnumbered by those with at least half a clue. Or we are doomed due to the tragedy of the commons. Here in the US we have far too many "low information" voters whose votes are just as valuable as those that are smarter than a box of rocks. We live in a very, very scary time.)
Wow, wjax, so useful to post your insights from FIFTY YEARS AGO.
Here's a tip: try to stay up on the more recent news . . . perhaps you'll learn something new.
Lastly, without links, your comments are a bunch of hot air. Here are some links that will challenge your anecdotal statements, provided as the subject matter greatly impacts the future of life on our planet.
The world has far too much misinformation; please stop posting unsupported BS that only adds to it.
Thx.
climate.nasa.gov
https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
You really don't get it man. It's actually quite sad. Now I got to the point where I hate Tesla owners like you because you're hurting my cause of getting as many people into them as possible. You harm your own movement. How about selling your Tesla and truly going green by not owning a car? That would help your saving the world mentality, and it would help us sell this car. You're in the way.
I have been lurking for months and joined just because of this thread. I love this discussion and agree with a lot of the points from both sides. I don't have a Tesla yet but I do drive and EV and would really like to get a stealth performance one day.
I think that carbon emissions are a problem and trust the experts at the IPCC (and other agencies) who say that continued emissions at current levels will lead to environmental problems. That said, I also agree that smug self-righteous posturing and condescension is the absolute worst way to bring anyone to your side of an discussion...
I live in southeast Virginia where pickup trucks outnumber prius by a huge margin. I have had a Nissan Leaf since 2015 and solar panels since 2016. I bought the Leaf new for $25k out the door then used the tax credit from the Leaf to buy the panels. We don't make 6 figures or anything but we do OK so I enjoy the fact that the car is nice and cheap to operate and the panels should pay for themselves in less than a decade and currently offset all of my electricity for driving (and then some) with little maintenance.
Because of the car and panels, (some) people's initial impression is that I am a tree hugging hippie who is judgemental towards their choices and it makes them feel awkward and nervous around me. I know this because it has come up multiple times over beers. Once I got to know folks better they realize that I am pretty much just a cheapskate that doesn't look down my nose at them and also believes that EVs (along with cleaner power) are a big step in lowering emissions. Once they stop feeling awkward we actually have productive conversations about the environmental side of the issues.
Why do I tell this story? For 2 reasons...
I think that carbon emissions are a problem and trust the experts at the IPCC (and other agencies) who say that continued emissions at current levels will lead to environmental problems. That said, I also agree that smug self-righteous posturing and condescension is the absolute worst way to bring anyone to your side of an discussion...
I live in southeast Virginia where pickup trucks outnumber prius by a huge margin. I have had a Nissan Leaf since 2015 and solar panels since 2016. I bought the Leaf new for $25k out the door then used the tax credit from the Leaf to buy the panels. We don't make 6 figures or anything but we do OK so I enjoy the fact that the car is nice and cheap to operate and the panels should pay for themselves in less than a decade and currently offset all of my electricity for driving (and then some) with little maintenance.
Because of the car and panels, (some) people's initial impression is that I am a tree hugging hippie who is judgemental towards their choices and it makes them feel awkward and nervous around me. I know this because it has come up multiple times over beers. Once I got to know folks better they realize that I am pretty much just a cheapskate that doesn't look down my nose at them and also believes that EVs (along with cleaner power) are a big step in lowering emissions. Once they stop feeling awkward we actually have productive conversations about the environmental side of the issues.
Why do I tell this story? For 2 reasons...
- Smug self-righteous posturing and condescension (in my experience) only gains you status with people who already agree with you and strokes your own ego. It has the opposite effect on folks that don't already reside in your "group". Developing relationships and appealing to the values of people who don't agree with you works to convince them much more. The research is out there on the internet, anyone who can understand the science behind the IPCC reports has already gone through the reports and made up their mind. The other 90% of the people go along with the opinions of the people/sources they trust, and being a condescending douche does not create trust. So don't be a condescending douche if you actually want to bring people to your side.
- I want a stealth performance Tesla Model 3 and it has virtually nothing to do with environmental consideration. My leaf is fine, I have done almost 60,000 miles of all electric driving over the last 4.5 years and most of it has been powered (net) by my solar panels. There is no environmental reason for me to upgrade to a $50,000 luxury sedan that has almost 3x the battery size and accelerates like an exotic sports car just to go 50 miles round trip to work every day and take my kid to gymnastics. If I was really concerned about the environment I would keep my Leaf until it died or ran out of range (kbb is only about $6k at this point) and donate the remaining $45000 that I'd spend on the Tesla to a good charity. But I'm not going to do that because I love the feeling of accelerating in the Tesla. Test driving it was like riding a roller coaster at every green light. So I am slowly saving, and hopefully in a couple years or so I will be able to get a used stealth performance.
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