Brake Pads

[Mark77a]

Hey, Guys thanks for all the tips.

Although there are probably some UK sourced pads that improve on the Standard pads, I went with the Carbotechs which others have used (cant beat 'group' R&D )
I went for the Std Bobcat 1521's as dont plan on many (if any) track days.

Here in the UK it worked out best to get then from the USA but via Carbotech UK > Carbotech Europe Ltd 2011 << recommended GREAT service !
Who offered to make them here or import them for less from the US, for less than I'd pay in Post and duty.

After roughing up the discs (by hand with abrasive on a flat), and drilling out dust/rust from the ventilation holes (4.0mm drill - Tesla wanted ££ labour for this . Fitted with some copper-ease (favourite UK, pad anti-seize, anti squeal grease) Then bedding them in (that was fun ) ... they are a Huge improvement over stock (brembo + ANO) pads.
This was a bit counterintuitive as the stock pads look so much better made, more accurately stamped and a perfect fit. But although the carbo-tech pads look a little cruder,
they fit in all the proper places. And now I dont get those heart stopping 'will it stop in time' moments at our (many) UK roundabouts. A nice by-product is little/no brake dust, and beautifully flat discs.

 

[Perrin21]

Ceramic Brakes

Has anyone considered upgrading the stock brakes to Ceramic? The stock brakes appear to be insufficient for spirited driving. Would a set of ceramics for the Lotus Elise fit the car? Would there also be a weight reduction? Has anyone tried it? what did you use?

 

[PV4EV]

I was motivated to put carbotech AX6 pads on after a couple of heart stopping moments with other drivers doing daft stuff like pulling out of a side exit without looking. With little use the discs/pads had glazed over and I just couldn't stop quick enough.

They have proved to be night and day better than stock. Only minor downside is the worrying disc grinding sound upon heavy braking, but I'd say that was to be expected given the speed they can wipe off. There is some brake dust side effects, by nothing unusual compared to a normal ICE car. They also bite well even when I've not done any panic stops for a while.

95% of the time braking is handled by normal regen. When I took the original pads off they had only been worn down by 1mm from stock, at 20k miles.

If I wanted to increase the stopping power even more I guess I'd have to go down the 4 pot caliper route or carbon everything which is probably overkill. I saw a 4 pot steel disc setup for sale for Vauxhall Vx220's that looked like it would work on a Roadster. Price was around £2k from memory. But with this much stopping power on the road you might end up ripping the front struts off and getting hit up the rear by someone with normal brakes !

 

[Doug_G]

In the end braking is limited by the friction of the tires, so I wouldn't worry about ripping your struts off.

I am a big fan of the Carbotech AX6. I'd actually prefer more stopping power than that, but then I'm used to track pads.

 

[strider]

Has anyone considered upgrading the stock brakes to Ceramic? The stock brakes appear to be insufficient for spirited driving. Would a set of ceramics for the Lotus Elise fit the car? Would there also be a weight reduction? Has anyone tried it? what did you use?

Calipers and pads are identical but the rotors are different. IIRC the size is the same but we have a different number of lugs. I am thrilled w/ just upgrading to the Carbotech pads. As Mark and others have said they are night and day. I can get ABS to activate with the Carbotech 1521's so there is plenty of power for me. If you are going to really work them over and over in a short time frame (autocross) the AX6 compound has better fade resistance but at the expense of more noise and dust. For me I just commute so I only do a few really hard stops per week when some numpty snarls traffic and I have to go from 80mph to stopped in short order.

 

[hcsharp]

I suspect the 1521's are also better when it's cold. If you look at the ambient temperature ratings for the various Carbotech products, the 1521 supposedly works better at lower temperatures. The AX6 are not as strong when it gets really cold outside, but they are still head and shoulders better than the stock pads at any temp.

Calipers and pads are identical but the rotors are different. IIRC the size is the same but we have a different number of lugs. I am thrilled w/ just upgrading to the Carbotech pads. As Mark and others have said they are night and day. I can get ABS to activate with the Carbotech 1521's so there is plenty of power for me. If you are going to really work them over and over in a short time frame (autocross) the AX6 compound has better fade resistance but at the expense of more noise and dust. For me I just commute so I only do a few really hard stops per week when some numpty snarls traffic and I have to go from 80mph to stopped in short order.

 

[dsm363]

I suspect the 1521's are also better when it's cold. If you look at the ambient temperature ratings for the various Carbotech products, the 1521 supposedly works better at lower temperatures. The AX6 are not as strong when it gets really cold outside, but they are still head and shoulders better than the stock pads at any temp.

So for someone who doesn't track the car but wants maximum braking power would you go for the AX6?

 

[wiztecy]

So for someone who doesn't track the car but wants maximum braking power would you go for the AX6?

AX6's have the best initial bite and pedal feel/modulation over the 1521. I don't track my car but wanted the best bite and stopping power I could get.

I had an instance some time back on my street bike where I knew I should have put on front braided brake lines on my GSXR bike for a much quicker stopping response. All my other bikes had them and I just didn't get to it with this one. One day a person pulled out in front of my lane, his lane stopped and my lane moving... Time slowed, I was thinking this is going to be close, very close, damn... I was close and didn't get it.... then my front tire connected with his back bumper of the car which locked my front wheel and then catapulted the back end of the bike and me up and forward off of the seat onto the pavement. If I had the braided lines I know I would have stopped in time and avoided the collision. Braided brake lines put all that energy that rubber lines loose through flexing back down and directly to the brake caliper piston and brake pad.

Truth is you can't turn back time and every millisecond and inch of braking power counts when the time comes. Hence why I went with the pads I did that provided the most stopping power. Next on my list of improvements is the quick ratio steering rack. The initial turn of the wheel on the Roadster doesn't do all that much until over 1/4 turn in. I've come in situations where people have hit their brakes for no reason hard where braking would not prevent the collision and a quick turn (knowing I have a clear spot to my exit area) will and did get me out of the predicament. The response time in that first 1/4 turn of the wheel needs to be quicker and it really doesn't feel right to me. Hopefully I'll have the new rack ordered in a week or two and installed within the month.

- - - Updated - - -

Has anyone considered upgrading the stock brakes to Ceramic? The stock brakes appear to be insufficient for spirited driving. Would a set of ceramics for the Lotus Elise fit the car? Would there also be a weight reduction? Has anyone tried it? what did you use?

The CarboTech 1521 Bobcats are a ceramic based compound.

 

[hcsharp]

So for someone who doesn't track the car but wants maximum braking power would you go for the AX6?

Nobody here has given a serious test to both using the same car so nobody really knows for sure. Different Carbotech staff have provided different answers to this question. Some have recommended the 1521s. They recommended the AX6 to me and I don't track my car (yet!). If you read their descriptions, the 1521 is better for street driving and extremely cold temperatures. The AX6 is for heavier braking needs but many people believe the Roadster requires extreme brakes due to its weight compared to the Elise. Dust and noise don't seem to be an issue with either one. My guess is you can't go wrong either way.

 

[dsm363]

Thanks. I think I'll go with the AX6. I assume Tesla won't install them so will go to a good Lotus shop.

 

[Doug_G]

Just "a good shop" should be okay, as long as you ensure they lift the car properly. The brakes are very conventional and anyone could do this.

 

[wiztecy]

Just "a good shop" should be okay, as long as you ensure they lift the car properly. The brakes are very conventional and anyone could do this.

True. I'd also stress to the shop to ensure they put the anti-squeal goop behind the pad (or else it will rattle) as well as to lubricate all surfaces properly that slide like the metal to metal areas between the brake pad to caliper.

 

[wiztecy]

We should have a "Roadster Tool Loaner" section since that's the helpful and trust worthy community we've all built.

So to add to the first item of "Loaner List" I have a Lotus Elise / Tesla Roadster brake bleeder system. Welcome to lend it out to those who live or welcome to meet close to me. Santa Cruz/Campbell, California area.

All I ask is that you treat it like your own, given you treat your things well. And if something breaks while using to fix/replace it. The given thing to a good tool share community. I'll repost when I have a moment in the main Roadster thread area to get a list going. Possibly can be made into a Wiki.

I suspect sending a PM with your personal Email would be best since inboxs get filled up quick for myself and others here.

If you want to pick one up their $52 on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Motive 0100 European Power Bleeder Kit: Automotive

**Note: The black plastic shrouds of the Roadster around the brake master cylinder WILL melt if brake fluid is dropped anywhere on them. Make sure to put down a towel under the master cylinder before filling or bleeding the system.

I have the power bleeder like this one in the pic:

 

[smorgasbord]

I assume Tesla won't install them...

Correct. Apparently, they are loosening up a bit about which tires they'll install if you sign a waiver, but not brakes no matter what you sign. But, that's OK, my local Lotus shop was way cheaper (as in doing both front and rears for less than Tesla wanted for rears only).

 

[smorgasbord]

AX6's have the best initial bite and pedal feel/modulation over the 1521.

Hey, now that I've got the 1521's on my car we should get together one day and find a parking lot/abandoned road and compare to the AX6's side by side.

 

[wiztecy]

Hey, now that I've got the 1521's on my car we should get together one day and find a parking lot/abandoned road and compare to the AX6's side by side.

Lets do it. We have to connect to get a good algorithm down to ensure accuracy. Also it'll be good to record brake dust over a few weeks time between the pads.

 

[hcsharp]

Hey, now that I've got the 1521's on my car we should get together one day and find a parking lot/abandoned road and compare to the AX6's side by side.

Personally I don't think you can accurately do this. I find a substantial variance in braking power depending on the condition of my rotors. Tires are also a factor. The only way you could really do it is to perform some benchmark tests with each car and then swap pads, and then perform the same tests. Which you can't easily do because they have to be broken in to the rotors.

 

[bart513]

I just had Carbotech AX 6's put on the front of my roadster as the rears were going to take more time to come in. What a difference! It's amazing! I can't imagine what it will be like once the rears are installed

 

[dsm363]

I just had Carbotech AX 6's put on the front of my roadster as the rears were going to take more time to come in. What a difference! It's amazing! I can't imagine what it will be like once the rears are installed

No squealing from pads either? No one has had any issues with them so far so either 1521 or AX6s sounds like great options.

 

[Rik]

I have enjoyed the AX6 Carbos as well... been about 4 months and double thumbs up. Over the weekend I installed the lotus brake pad stickers and it has removed the regular jostling noise of the pads bouncing around. Painted my calipers while I was at it. long weekend with the car jacked up. I'll look for the thread about door handles and post some pictures where I applied the 3M carbon fiber vinyl to the silver door handles on the interior.