Buying a used Tesla from an independent dealer

[MOzzA]

If the 7p a mile does go up I’ll be a little disappointed. It should be highlighted on the finance example it’s not difficult to add an * and expand the charge details.

 

[JonG]

Welcome to the world of Tesla where even the most obvious statement can be made totally confusing.

Like the time they managed to quote 0-60 times using a different basis (some with, some without a roll out which is an american thing), the motor power which was wasn't the car power, you next car having free unlimited super charging only to clarified to "if you order by the end of the year" which you'd have got anyway using your referral code.

Im pretty sure the 7p mileage is capped at which point it flips to something 15p but you have to see the T&Cs and they're not very good at doing that until you're well down the line. In fairness I think the 7p limit is something like 10k miles which would make sense and explain why it superficially looks better to opt for low miles and pay the penalty, there is no such thing as a free lunch. And its worth checking if it +VAT

You may also well want to check whether servicing is an obligation too for finance, its expensive and most people skip some of them but that may not a luxury you can afford to do if you think you may give the keys back at the end.

 

[DJP31]

If the 7p a mile does go up I’ll be a little disappointed. It should be highlighted on the finance example it’s not difficult to add an * and expand the charge details.

It was on another forum and the poster said his Blackhorse finance agreement had 7p for the first 5k over and above the limit rising to 14p thereafter. Both figures excluding VAT.

 

[boywonder]

For anyone looking at leasing, have a good think about the condition of the vehicle when you return it.

A colleague handed back his 3 year old leased BMW the other day. As a precaution against excess charges, he refurb'd the wheels, and had two panels resprayed (stone chips). Other than that the car looked pretty much immaculate.

Before the car was collected, it was inspected by someone from BCA who deemed its condition satisfactory - apparently BMW (Finance) outsource to BCA. The driver who later turned up later claimed that the car had a few issues! My friend explained that the condition of the vehicle had already been signed off and to politely get stuffed.

Leasing companies will be looking to recoup as much money as they can from a deal, and that might include seeing the car return as a perfect money making opportunity.

Just something to bear in mind.

 

[DJP31]

For anyone looking at leasing, have a good think about the condition of the vehicle when you return it.

A colleague handed back his 3 year old leased BMW the other day. As a precaution against excess charges, he refurb'd the wheels, and had two panels resprayed (stone chips). Other than that the car looked pretty much immaculate.

Before the car was collected, it was inspected by someone from BCA who deemed its condition satisfactory - apparently BMW (Finance) outsource to BCA. The driver who later turned up later claimed that the car had a few issues! My friend explained that the condition of the vehicle had already been signed off and to politely get stuffed.

Leasing companies will be looking to recoup as much money as they can from a deal, and that might include seeing the car return as a perfect money making opportunity.

Just something to bear in mind.

Good advice. I had a run in with Mercedes finance a few years and is one of the reasons I would never touch the brand again. Luckily I had taken pictures of the interior and exterior so was able to completely refute their allegations of broken this and damaged that. I'm convinced they were trying to fill the hole between the GFV and the market value.

 

[JonG]

Wanted to respond to the original question of whether to buy from Tesla or an independent dealer...

Personally I think that the most important factor is whether you can find the car you want with the spec you want at a price you are willing to pay. The best way to gauge what's available is to use this website: Tesla MS and MX cars for sale in the UK

That site is fantastic and will show you what's available, price changes and the cars to avoid based on ridiculous pricing.

I originally purchased a CPO car from Tesla but was so disappointed by its preparation on collection that I declined to take delivery of the car. At that point I nearly stopped considering buying a Tesla at all...

However soon after, I located an alternate Model S through an independent dealer which tuned out to be a newer and much better spec'd car for little more than that CPO car I had intended to buy. I am very happy with my Model S! In fact I absolutely love it and will never buy an ICE car again.

Things to note are that the free supercharging and warranty are transferrable so you shouldn't have any concerns over this point. Also at 50,000 miles it is possible to purchase the same extended warranty for around £1500 (I believe) that you get with the CPO cars. So if the car you intend to purchase is below 50k miles and 4 years old, you always have that option for the future.

If you can find a CPO car at the spec and price you are OK with then buy from Tesla. If you find an alternate from someone who specialises in Tesla's then I would be OK purchasing from them too. Personally I would also be OK buying from a private seller too provided you take the usual precautions when buying any car from anybody.

My advice would be to avoid pre 2015 cars, cars without autopilot, and to ideally choose a dual motor car over the single motor ones and the largest battery you can afford. Avoid high mileage cars because of possible warranty issues. The other options are really up to you. Always buy the best spec'd car that you can afford as it will always be easier to sell in the future.

Just to get this back on topic which is buying used, I've now added the min max and average for any model you select on the site - so if you look at a 85D you can easily see the spread for that model, of course you need to apply a little bit of man maths to take into account condition, miles, options etc but it should help a little especially with the freakish prices some independents are quoting.

 

[MOzzA]

So well worth checking (and I can still cancel my order if I need to).

Indeed the first 5000 miles over your allowance is 7p a mile. After that it’s 14p a mile - doubling.

Using the same example above, the excess mileage charge would be £6426.

Time to rethink. My budget can’t really cope with more than 10000 miles a year therefore I either cancel or accept handing the car back isn’t an option or I try and find a bigger deposit.

 

[MOzzA]

Adding to that (although the interest rate is now 2.5%) working on 22100 miles a year on a 48 month pcp the cheapest finance rate is 20k miles pa at £35818, the next cheapest is 10k miles pa at £36760 and the most expensive is the 15k miles pa deal at £37274

 

[Peteski]

So well worth checking (and I can still cancel my order if I need to).

Indeed the first 5000 miles over your allowance is 7p a mile. After that it’s 14p a mile - doubling.

Using the same example above, the excess mileage charge would be £6426.

Time to rethink. My budget can’t really cope with more than 10000 miles a year therefore I either cancel or accept handing the car back isn’t an option or I try and find a bigger deposit.

One thing that struck me on the PCP deal is that the GMFV is very generous (49% after 4 years) so you will almost certainly need to be handing the car back at the end to avoid negative equity. I really can't see the car being worth more than 49% residual in the private or trade market and quite likely considerably less. So I don't expect any real choice in this case i.e. pay the PCP for 4 years, don't exceed the agreed mileage by too much (might also have implications for the GMFV on top of the excess mileage charges?), hand it back and walk away. I think it's still a great deal at 1.5% APR, but I think it's important to be in a position to hand the car back at the end. Otherwise I expect it will become a big financial liability at that point.

 

[DJP31]

One thing that struck me on the PCP deal is that the GMFV is very generous (49% after 4 years) so you will almost certainly need to be handing the car back at the end to avoid negative equity. I really can't see the car being worth more than 49% residual in the private or trade market and quite likely considerably less. So I don't expect any real choice in this case i.e. pay the PCP for 4 years, don't exceed the agreed mileage by too much (might also have implications for the GMFV on top of the excess mileage charges?), hand it back and walk away. I think it's still a great deal at 1.5% APR, but I think it's important to be in a position to hand the car back at the end. Otherwise I expect it will become a big financial liability at that point.

I agree the GMFV's are extremely generous - mine is 54% of the purchase price (after tax incentive) after 4 years. No way will the car be worth that IMO, and that's based on "normal" luxury car depreciation rates. When you factor in the improvements being made all the time, and possibly competition, I will be astonished if it's anywhere close to that.

However, I would be very surprised if Tesla don't offer at least the GMFV as a p/ex value just to keep me in the brand. If they don't and the only option is to hand the car back I'm free to go anywhere else.

There's nothing in the t&c's about excessive mileage over the agreed limit, other than the catch all of fair wear and tear and obviously the pence per mile charge. A well looked after car shouldn't trigger any financial penalties beyond those known costs.

It's certainly going to be very interesting to see how the values pan out over the next few years.

 

[Peteski]

However, I would be very surprised if Tesla don't offer at least the GMFV as a p/ex value just to keep me in the brand. If they don't and the only option is to hand the car back I'm free to go anywhere else.

I think that amounts to the same thing in effect. Handing it back covers the balloon and so does Tesla offering you the GMFV. The only way Tesla could sweeten the deal is to actually offer you slightly above the GMFV on p/ex, giving you a little equity for a deposit. Otherwise you are starting from scratch again either way. It will be interesting to see how this pans out at the end of a PCP.

 

[WannabeOwner]

after 4 years. No way will the car be worth that

... unless Sterling keeps on sliding!!

Also not really a data-point, but being a lazy so-and-so, and because there isn't really any regular servicing required per se, my first service was at circa 30K miles. so if you decided to skip half or 2/3rds of the services, there's an annual saving of a £grand or two (for a high mileage driver). Don't suppose that's an option on GMFV etc. There are probably a raft of, negative!, implications I haven't thought of though ...

 

[DJP31]

I think that amounts to the same thing in effect. Handing it back covers the balloon and so does Tesla offering you the GMFV. The only way Tesla could sweeten the deal is to actually offer you slightly above the GMFV on p/ex, giving you a little equity for a deposit. Otherwise you are starting from scratch again either way. It will be interesting to see how this pans out at the end of a PCP.

I’m not sure it is. If the GMFV is above the trade in value then Tesla would have to effectively offer me more than the trade in value just to match the GMFV, and that’s the only way they could keep me in the brand. Tesla are certainly taking a punt, and I suspect they will be keen to keep me onboard and so will match the GMFV.

I’m assuming not a penny more and fully expect to stump up another chunk of deposit. What will be interesting is to see how the trade in looks at say, 3 years, which is when I think I’d probably like to bail out - especially as I’m certain to be over the PCP mileage based on the last 7 months .

Certainly exciting times, if you like cars that is

 

[WannabeOwner]

which is when I think I’d probably like to bail out

Technology leapfrog likely available then ...

I love the MS but a smaller car would be easier day-to-day - parking-bays and multistory car park ramps were not designed with the MS in mind, let alone an MX !

So perhaps 2019 when the M3 arrives in the UK ...

... but as soon as a new one will drive itself around I'm having one. Complete waste of my time driving from A-to-B ...

 

[JonG]

I’m not sure it is. If the GMFV is above the trade in value then Tesla would have to effectively offer me more than the trade in value just to match the GMFV, and that’s the only way they could keep me in the brand. Tesla are certainly taking a punt, and I suspect they will be keen to keep me onboard and so will match the GMFV.

I’m assuming not a penny more and fully expect to stump up another chunk of deposit. What will be interesting is to see how the trade in looks at say, 3 years, which is when I think I’d probably like to bail out - especially as I’m certain to be over the PCP mileage based on the last 7 months .

Certainly exciting times, if you like cars that is

I think you misunderstand how this works - the guaranteed value that’s not PCP is reliant on you meeting the terms. Break the terms and they don’t need to honour it.

The future value on a PCP means you throw them the keys if the value is lower than the guarantee. You can then buy another Tesla or buy any other car but you’d have no equity on this car to act as a deposit.

 

[JonG]

Technology leapfrog likely available then ...

I love the MS but a smaller car would be easier day-to-day - parking-bays and multistory car park ramps were not designed with the MS in mind, let alone an MX !

So perhaps 2019 when the M3 arrives in the UK ...

... but as soon as a new one will drive itself around I'm having one. Complete waste of my time driving from A-to-B ...

In the last 2 years the technology has hardly changed, arguably that’s been the case for 3 years. Range has gone up a bit, AP1 hardware is 30 months old and AP1 is 2 years old and as good as EAP is today.

Technology is not making massive strides. It’s more a case as things starting to get cheaper.

 

[DJP31]

I think you misunderstand how this works - the guaranteed value that’s not PCP is reliant on you meeting the terms. Break the terms and they don’t need to honour it.

The future value on a PCP means you throw them the keys of the value is lower than the guarantee. You can then buy another Tesla or buyva y other car but you’d have no equity on the car to act as a deposit.

I do understand exactly how it works, its probably my explanation that gives the impression I don't. What I'm trying to say is if the arse falls out of Tesla values then yes, I could hand the keys back and wander off into a Mission E, Jag iPace or whatever might be available (and have a high speed charging network ) OR Tesla offer me more than it's worth to keep me in brand.

However from a financial prudency perspective I'm assuming Tesla won't care about me and I'll have no equity in the car.

 

[DJP31]

Technology leapfrog likely available then ...

I love the MS but a smaller car would be easier day-to-day - parking-bays and multistory car park ramps were not designed with the MS in mind, let alone an MX !

So perhaps 2019 when the M3 arrives in the UK ...

I love the S too, but it is big. Multistorey = shopping which I don't do, but the 3 will be red flagged if the golf bag and electric trolley don't fit.

 

[Peteski]

I’m not sure it is. If the GMFV is above the trade in value then Tesla would have to effectively offer me more than the trade in value just to match the GMFV, and that’s the only way they could keep me in the brand. Tesla are certainly taking a punt, and I suspect they will be keen to keep me onboard and so will match the GMFV.

It doesn't matter how you word it, with the GMFV Tesla have quoted me I'm 99% certain I will be handing them the keys back after 4 years with zero equity. Nominal trade in value is going to be way lower than the GMFV they have quoted on my PCP. But Tesla have to take the car back at GMFV anyway, so that's no different to them offering me the same value as a p/ex. It amounts to the same thing and of course I don't have to accept a p/ex deal to get the same effective residual - I just hand them the keys and we're all square. P/ex only has any value if there is some equity in the deal and I'm totally convinced there will be none in this case. It will be interesting to see how Tesla play it when the PCP is up. Maybe they will put some incentive forward for me to p/ex rather than toss them the keys and walk away, maybe not. I guess a lot will depend on how residuals play out in reality, but 49% after 4 years is a very strong residual to beat.

 

[DJP31]

Maybe they will put some incentive forward for me to p/ex rather than toss them the keys and walk away, maybe not. I guess a lot will depend on how residuals play out in reality, but 49% after 4 years is a very strong residual to beat.

I completely agree, yours at 49% and mine at 54% are not representative of what the cars will be worth, so it remains to be seen as to whether Tesla offer an incentive to stay with them. Given they do not discount the cars (except maybe they do on inventory ) the only way they can do that is to inflate the trade in and give some equity deposit.