yeah, the markups make it not worth looking outside of Tesla it seems. In San Diego area, the Wind trim AWD at a dealership was $67k. NO way I would choose that over a Tesla. Even with rebates, the Tesla will come out a better deal IMO.
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Buying used Model 3, new model 3 or Kia EV6
- Thread starter Shrktank
- Start date
yeah, the markups make it not worth looking outside of Tesla it seems. In San Diego area, the Wind trim AWD at a dealership was $67k. NO way I would choose that over a Tesla. Even with rebates, the Tesla will come out a better deal IMO.
If your budget allows it, I would definitely recommend a new Model 3. Tesla is still way ahead of the competition. Look at these efficiency numbers for example:
www.fueleconomy.gov
Fuel Economy
Fuel economy of the . 1984 to present Buyer's Guide to Fuel Efficient Cars and Trucks. Estimates of gas mileage, greenhouse gas emissions, safety ratings, and air pollution ratings for new and used cars and trucks.
www.fueleconomy.gov
I spent a couple of months, hours of research, and spreadsheet comparisons on a number of EV's (I even outlined the charging curves). We currently own a 2021 M3LR and are looking at adding another EV because of commute (both commutes are 140 miles round trip daily). I did EVERYTHING I could to NOT buy another Model 3...that being said, that is exactly what we did. I am a car nut and want a variety of vehicles. It came down to the EV6 and another M3LR (I also loved the Polestar 2, just not efficient enough). I test drove the Ioniq 5, ID.4, Polestar 2, EV6, BMW i4, and the Mach-E. I also looked at getting a used M3, but as everyone mentioned, they are way over priced. I was finding them a year old for the same price as new (before recent price increases). For me it came down to none of them could do everything I wanted them to do, as well as the Tesla did. Some did things better, sometimes much better and some did things worse. I had to force myself to sit down and list out what was most important to me and who did it best. The goal was to stay as close to $50,000-$55,000 as I could. The majority of the dealers were selling the EV6 for $5,000-$10,000 more than MSRP and that priced it above the Model 3 (even with the tax credit). Other than the Polestar 2 and some VW dealers, everyone else also had a significant markup on their EV's as well. I just won't pay over MSRP for a vehicle! I loved the driving experience of the Polestar 2, LOVED IT. But it seemed to be overpriced for what it offered and their Pilot Assist system left a lot to be desired (It would not stay in the lane for it's life, researched this and found this to be a common issue with the system on Volvo's too). The way I am looking at it for the moment is I will drive the new Model 3 for a year or so and see what else comes out and maybe change out then. We love our Tesla, and have zero complaints on it, but I would like the variety as well.
I really like the EV6 and considered it, but dealers within 3 states of me want $10-15K over MSRP and many of them also tack on $600-800 dealer fees and force you to buy $1-2K protection packages for paint or interior.
Its such a racket. The dealer networks need to go away. Ended up ordering a M3P. Just waiting, looking like it’s going to be 3-4 months (I ordered the first week of Feb).
Its such a racket. The dealer networks need to go away. Ended up ordering a M3P. Just waiting, looking like it’s going to be 3-4 months (I ordered the first week of Feb).
RyanS
Ka-chow
Avoid used EVs. Main reason is battery degradation. You will lose several miles of ranges with used ones.
I have the earlier M3 and no major issues, other than recalls. But I lost about 20miles of range after 110K miles of ownership.
I strongly recommend Tesla because of the super charging stations. You can drive your Tesla anywhere without worrying about charging and range. Others EVs... no. Charging stations are hit and miss and take much longer to charge. 30min vs. 3 hours - if you can find an available charging station.
I have the earlier M3 and no major issues, other than recalls. But I lost about 20miles of range after 110K miles of ownership.
I strongly recommend Tesla because of the super charging stations. You can drive your Tesla anywhere without worrying about charging and range. Others EVs... no. Charging stations are hit and miss and take much longer to charge. 30min vs. 3 hours - if you can find an available charging station.
RedModel3
Member
I won't comment on the new vs. used. However, I can tell you that I have owned my 2018 LR RWD for almost 4 years and over 41K miles, and it has been rock solid. I had planned for years to buy a Tesla, and the deciding factor was the supercharging network. I only wanted one car and it needed to go EVERYWHERE. Tesla still doesn't have any real competition in this regard, so if you want to travel across the country, don't get the Kia. Also, since you are getting rid of a pickup truck, have you looked at the Model Y? It has a hatchback whereas the 3 has a trunk. You might find that much more useful.
Similar experience, dealerships make me feel exhausted. I test drove the EV6 and liked it. The interior is very futuristic and luxurious. But I was turned off by the dealer markups (it was about $5k -7k for the GT-line, but dealer said he could waive that if I made the purchase right away). They also only had the top of the line models available (GT-line with all the add-ons and packages), and could not give me a timeline for the Light and Wind. The Kia dealership guy knew I was considering between a Model Y and EV6, and told me EV6 was definitely a better choice - I asked why, and he said EV6 came with much better warranty terms than a Tesla. I asked him what Tesla's terms were, and he said he didn't know...lol (then how did you know Kia's was better?)... at that point I was so turned off and left. Ended up ordering a MYP same day, took delivery in 8 days.
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I had almost exact same experience test driving the EV6. We liked the car until we had to start dealing with the sales guy, their pressure tactics, and all the added options/charges - $67k for the GT-Line. Made me remember how much I hate going to dealerships. I also ended up going home and ordering another Model 3. lol.
I'm still keeping my options open but so far I just don't see anything else being worth buying over the Model 3 we have on order.
E90alex
Active Member
I went with a new Model 3 order myself.
I had been considering the EV6 and Ioniq 5 as well as others but wasn’t really in love with either of them to pay what they’re asking. Dealers have been marking them up as well which makes them definitely not worth it. I’m also not the biggest Hyundai/Kia fan because despite checking a lot of boxes on paper, they have historically had major problems/failures with their 4cyl ICE so makes me wary about long term reliability and resale.
Tesla has been proven to hold their value well (even pre-pandemic) so less of a risk there if I end up getting rid of it.
Recent year used Model 3s were just as if not more expensive than a new one. 2018/19 was when they were just first rolling off the factory so I personally would be wary of build quality problems on an older one whereas later models would have most of the production kinks ironed out.
TLDR, If you have the time to wait for a new order then I would do that.
I had been considering the EV6 and Ioniq 5 as well as others but wasn’t really in love with either of them to pay what they’re asking. Dealers have been marking them up as well which makes them definitely not worth it. I’m also not the biggest Hyundai/Kia fan because despite checking a lot of boxes on paper, they have historically had major problems/failures with their 4cyl ICE so makes me wary about long term reliability and resale.
Tesla has been proven to hold their value well (even pre-pandemic) so less of a risk there if I end up getting rid of it.
Recent year used Model 3s were just as if not more expensive than a new one. 2018/19 was when they were just first rolling off the factory so I personally would be wary of build quality problems on an older one whereas later models would have most of the production kinks ironed out.
TLDR, If you have the time to wait for a new order then I would do that.
Friends of mine are looking for new cars now. Each one cannot stand the games and lies that dealers are telling them and the markups are absurd. Although when buying my M3 we put up with extended delivery dates which are a moving target, it is a whole lot better than dealing with car dealers. This is my 2nd EV, I owned a Nissan Leaf before this and I remember the games they play trying to get me to buy an extended warranty when I am leasing the car for 3 years. Also service was a nightmare. When the car went in for service at the Nissan dealers there was only 1 tech trained on the car and if he was out sick and did not work on Saturday, you had to reschedule the appt and they never told you in advance.
Tesla service: the only experience I had was today, they came to my house to rotate my tires. With tax $54. I consider that a steal. The tech was very thorough. He test drove the car fist, he used one of my pucks in lifting the car, rotated the tires, torqued the tires twice before putting the aero rims back on and then test drove the car again. They bring the jack lift, the lug gun, torque stick. Took 15 minutes. I think a good deal.
I lease the M3, the only problem coming down the pike is what happens at the end of the 3 years. I have 2 years left on the lease so hopefully cars will be more abundant by then. Right now according to the lease, there is no buy-out price for the consumer at the end of the lease, says the car has to be turned in. I hope this will change but since there is no buy-out, there is no residual price and Tesla can use market price to try to sell me the car.
One other note: Article in the WSJ this week saying that leasing cars is at an all time low. Prices making no sense. Used to make sense because the dealer reduced the car by thousands of dollars to make the lease payment easier to digest. With no inventory on the lot, a dealer cannot reduce or really does not want to reduce the price of the car to the consumer.
Tesla service: the only experience I had was today, they came to my house to rotate my tires. With tax $54. I consider that a steal. The tech was very thorough. He test drove the car fist, he used one of my pucks in lifting the car, rotated the tires, torqued the tires twice before putting the aero rims back on and then test drove the car again. They bring the jack lift, the lug gun, torque stick. Took 15 minutes. I think a good deal.
I lease the M3, the only problem coming down the pike is what happens at the end of the 3 years. I have 2 years left on the lease so hopefully cars will be more abundant by then. Right now according to the lease, there is no buy-out price for the consumer at the end of the lease, says the car has to be turned in. I hope this will change but since there is no buy-out, there is no residual price and Tesla can use market price to try to sell me the car.
One other note: Article in the WSJ this week saying that leasing cars is at an all time low. Prices making no sense. Used to make sense because the dealer reduced the car by thousands of dollars to make the lease payment easier to digest. With no inventory on the lot, a dealer cannot reduce or really does not want to reduce the price of the car to the consumer.
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I bought my 2019 M3P used one year ago and I have had *zero* issues with it. I drive it daily and it is a fantastic. I have noticed zero build
quality issues with it. My range is 275 miles right now. (ball park, I keep it on the percentage view, not miles) The car has lost 35 miles of
range in almost 3 years. I only drive it in town, so it has more than enough range for me. I would have *zero* problems buying a used M3, but the prices are insane right now, so I would buy a new one unless I could get a deal on a nice used one. I bought mine before the current used car craze and my car has gone up in value $7,500 in a year. My 2 cents.
quality issues with it. My range is 275 miles right now. (ball park, I keep it on the percentage view, not miles) The car has lost 35 miles of
range in almost 3 years. I only drive it in town, so it has more than enough range for me. I would have *zero* problems buying a used M3, but the prices are insane right now, so I would buy a new one unless I could get a deal on a nice used one. I bought mine before the current used car craze and my car has gone up in value $7,500 in a year. My 2 cents.
I think I've read every post. I am not a Tesla fanatic but on my 3rd Tesla in 9 months. We just bought an M3 Long Range (MS LR). It came A LOT faster than originally promised when we ordered.
One big reason why I'd go for a new M3 LR is because of where you live. The latest M3's have a heat pump. I lived in your area and it gets cold enough, and stays cold long enough, that the extra efficiency of the heat pump will VASTLY increase your range in any temps below about 40F. That alone would be reason enough to consider the latest M3 as the early ones didn't have it. Not to mention a host of running changes. Not opposed to the Kia platform but the Tesla is better in many ways.
Once the newness wears off the Kia, sad to say, it is still a Kia. Don't expect resale to hold up down the road. Bought several for my kids and always buy them used as depreciation is so bad. Pretty solid cars but I'd prefer someone else to take the hit on them. If paying over retail new, you are really going to get it later.
The M3 is a fantastic car with a few caveats. A pretty good-sized trunk but no hatchback but limits the versatility a bit. The rear seat is fairly small and leg room is for munchkins. Sad to say my Model S is similar in the lack of rear legroom.
Driving dynamics are pretty good. Efficiency is excellent as mentioned. Performance is almost supercar quick depending on the model. If you get the long range and ad acceleration you have a really quick car and AWD for snow.
While the recent price increases are unfortunate, I think the car is still worth the asking price even without any incentives or rebates like others. There is a reason why they are selling so well. The more I drive our 3, the more I appreciate it.
One big reason why I'd go for a new M3 LR is because of where you live. The latest M3's have a heat pump. I lived in your area and it gets cold enough, and stays cold long enough, that the extra efficiency of the heat pump will VASTLY increase your range in any temps below about 40F. That alone would be reason enough to consider the latest M3 as the early ones didn't have it. Not to mention a host of running changes. Not opposed to the Kia platform but the Tesla is better in many ways.
Once the newness wears off the Kia, sad to say, it is still a Kia. Don't expect resale to hold up down the road. Bought several for my kids and always buy them used as depreciation is so bad. Pretty solid cars but I'd prefer someone else to take the hit on them. If paying over retail new, you are really going to get it later.
The M3 is a fantastic car with a few caveats. A pretty good-sized trunk but no hatchback but limits the versatility a bit. The rear seat is fairly small and leg room is for munchkins. Sad to say my Model S is similar in the lack of rear legroom.
Driving dynamics are pretty good. Efficiency is excellent as mentioned. Performance is almost supercar quick depending on the model. If you get the long range and ad acceleration you have a really quick car and AWD for snow.
While the recent price increases are unfortunate, I think the car is still worth the asking price even without any incentives or rebates like others. There is a reason why they are selling so well. The more I drive our 3, the more I appreciate it.
That is a great point that folks don't often thing about --- if EV is the only car, you want something dependable with enough "gas" stations to charge for weekend/few-100-mile road trips. For most parts of USA, I think Tesla is the best option: decade of experience with mass produced EV tech and lots of public knowledge (like this forum) for DIY fixes; this is particularly important when you are considering new EVs since most new tech doesn't get it right until its second or third iteration (look at iPhones, Model 3, and other examples).
(Of course, I don't like EV6 pitted against a MY: if you ignore the hatch door, it is just a sedan-like thing when it comes to interior seating and amount of space. But that's my personal view
)I had a 2018 M3… and honestly it wasn’t until my wife got a 2020 car that we realized how not great the 2018 was (in comparison). So I sold the 2018 for almost what I paid for it and got a 2021 car. Which is - as noted above - a better build and has more features. With the 2018 it just felt like a steady drumbeat of smallish issues. But it never stopped. Glass cracked, trunk leaked, water got into the charge port. To be fair - Tesla fixed it all and I loved the car and if we hadn’t gotten the newer car I would probably still have the 2018. I’m sure not all of them had these issues but I agree with the advice above about skipping a used one. I will say I saw an EV6 in real life the other day and it was really awesome looking. It must be a difficult car to photograph because I had never given it a second thought until I saw one.
ODWms
Member
Even before considering the other benefits, I wouldn’t even think of buying an EV without a supercharger network. Tesla wins, hands down on this one point. Your mileage, literally may vary.
Though the 2 years of free fast charging you get at Electrify America is a nice bonus on the Kia and Hyundai. For me supercharging is nice but this is my daily driver and will rarely if ever use a supercharger. The others do have some convenience as well. There are Kia dealers on every corner so I'm sure the service experience is much better. Even with those perks, 2 years free charging and a $7500 tax credit I still went with the Tesla
.Sorry about this, it posted prior to me completing it. I meant to reply and quote OliverM3 above that the EV6 did not offer the free 2 years like the Hyundai's were. We all expected it to, but they didn't. This was also a factor in my decision as well. I agree it was difficult to walk away from the $7,00 tac credit (and in my state another $2,500).
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