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California red car pool lane decal - waiting for DMV

Discussion in 'California' started by WSE51, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. WSE51

    WSE51 Member

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    https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm says that our white car pool decals (also good for free street parking in Santa Monica!) expire 12/31/2018.

    White decal holders cannot apply for the new red decals, according to this website, until 2019 -- which means there will be an interim period during which we do not have valid decals at all. That doesn't make any sense. I called the Air Resources Board today (800-242-4450) and they said that until the DMV changes their form so there is a place to check-off saying that you are replacing your white decals with red, they are not accepting applications from existing white decal holders.

    Also, only owners who got their white decals during calendar 2017 and 2018 can apply for red decals. So early Tesla owners are out of luck altogether.

    If you had an older Tesla but your white decal was re-issued during 2017 and 2018 (perhaps due to the old one's being replaced due to a fender-bender repair), then you can get red decals once the application process opens up.

    If anyone has different information, can they please post it? Thanks
     
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  2. GarrickS

    GarrickS Member

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    What? I can just get my 2016 stickers re-issued now, and that will make me eligible for 2019 stickers?!
     
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  3. WSE51

    WSE51 Member

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    GarrickS, that makes sense to me, but I am not the DMV
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    No. You can only reapply for the Red sticker if your White sticker was originally issued in 2017 or 2018. Replacement stickers don't count.
     
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  5. WSE51

    WSE51 Member

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    milmura, could you please post the source that is the basis of your statement?

    The website itself says "Owners of vehicles issued a Green or White HOV decal after January 1, 2017 may re-apply in 2019 for a new Red Clean Air Vehicle Decal that will expire on January 1, 2022." It does not say "originally issued"

    Thank you.
     
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  6. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    You're trying to play on a technicality. If you look at the REG 1000 form, there are different check boxes for Original Decals and Replacement Decals. People who request Original Decals for their used car that was previously issued decals have their application and check returned for correction. Clearly, requesting Replacement Decals will not reset your qualifying issuance date. It's just common sense.
     
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  7. WSE51

    WSE51 Member

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    miimura, what you say does make common sense, but California laws and regulations often defy common sense. When I spoke with the Air Resources Board they said the form was being revised so that qualifying white decal owners can apply for red decals. I guess we will have to see how they turn out.

    If those owners of cars bought in 2012-2016 who got re-issued white decals in 2017 and 2018 are eligible, even though owners of cars bought in 2012-2016 who did not get re-issued decals are not eligible, that does seem unfair. It also could create a "run on the bank" with thousands of owners replacing their decals this fall, solely to qualify. But it sure would be great for my 2012 and 2015 Model S's! At least my Model X is new enough to qualify for the red decals.
     
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  8. Need

    Need Member

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    The thing is that it doesn't hurt to try. The worst is that you lost $22. But if I have to guess, it probably won't work.
     
  9. derkan

    derkan June Bug

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    @miimura
    The current version of the REG 1000 form has two sections for "My vehicle's exhaust standard is". In the first one there's ZEV (Zero-Emission Vehicle), which I assume I would pick if I just bought a Tesla, and this option existed in the 2016 version of the form as well.
    In the second section there's only one option called ULEV (Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle) - again the same option was on the 2016 form, but this time it's grouped under a header called "White Decals" and has a note saying "Only available and valid until January 1, 2019"

    So if I had a 2016 Tesla and needed replacement decals, I would choose ZEV on the new form and not ULEV, because Teslas aren't ULEVs.

    Mysteriously, the new form now has a Date of Purchase field, but does not ask you to fill in Date of original Decals Issued anywhere (you have to enter the Previous Decal Number, of course)

    I agree with OP that the DMV may not have carefully thought through the process and the form, and that there may not be a real intent to punish people who bought cars in 2016 but didn't wait until 2017 to apply for the sticker. If the ARB rep told OP that they are going literally by the REG 1000 form, then this isn't a technicality, it's a loophole or whatever you want to call it.
     
  10. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    CNG powered vehicles are eligible for White decals and were not included in the new rules that implemented the Red decals. For one of those vehicles you would check ULEV and CNG and it will expire with no recourse on 1/1/2019. I'm not sure if LPG was the same as CNG or not.

    Like it or not, the law was written to give 2016 EV purchasers a limited HOV benefit.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. derkan

    derkan June Bug

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    I have an update:
    When you remove the white decals, they leave behind tiny stickers that say VOID and the white decals have corresponding gaps that read VOID. Not sure how to remove the tiny stickers.
    I can positively confirm that if you have to apply for replacement decals, and the decals you're replacing are white, CA DMV sends you a white set. The certificate that comes with them has a new "Date Issued" in 2018 and does not show the date the original decals were issued.
     
  12. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I stand by my earlier statement. Your certificate is correct because the stickers with the current serial number were in fact issued in 2018. DMV still has records for the original set of stickers that were issued to your car. When they implement the extension system, I am quite sure they will go by the Original Issue Date.
     
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  13. derkan

    derkan June Bug

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    I agree that that would be the logical thing for them to do, but I still think there is a chance that what they actually end up doing may result in a new red decal. There are just too many idiosyncrasies with DMV forms and my guess is that the underlying systems aren't as well-connected as some think. Would a 2019 decal application for a pre-2017 EV result in the system automatically looking up the original/oldest decal issue date, or would a processing employee be motivated to spend the effort to do so? Fingers crossed.

    Old Decal Certificate: No Valid Until date. Motive Power = "E - Hybrid" even though REG 1000 at the time clearly said "Electric" under the "White Decals" heading, and "Plug-in hybrid": was a separate checkbox under "Green Decals". Did they not know at the time that the white decals would expire in 2019? How would an average white decal owner even know about expiration? I for one only found out on this forum! The REG 1000 form at the time didn't spell this out.

    Current Decal Certificate: Has Valid Until date. Motive Power = "E"

    Old REG 1000 (Rev 6/2015): 2 pages. No box to indicate Date of Purchase. Separate sections to request White vs Green Decals. Detailed section for Replacement Decals or ID card, and requires remaining decals to be surrendered to DMV with the application.

    Current REG 1000 (Rev 1/2018): 1 page. New box to enter Date of Purchase. No mention of Red Decals. The White Decals section has only one checkbox, for ULEV, and says in bold Only available and valid until January 1, 2019. Much shortened area to indicate replacement decal number/reason.

    Somebody please help me understand the following:

    The current DMV webpage seems to be clear on one thing: "CAV decals issued on or after January 1, 2019, are valid until January 1 of the fourth year after the year of issuance."

    ...Except elsewhere on the same page it also says "The new red decal will be valid until January 1, 2022, ...." and "Eligible vehicles issued a white decal in 2017 or 2018 are eligible to apply for a red decal in 2019 granting them access to HOV lanes until January 1, 2022."

    Which is it? Red decal issued (for the first time) in June 2020 is valid until... Jan 1 2022? Or Jan 1 2024?
     
  14. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    June 2020= Year 0 (Year of issuance)

    1/1/2021= Year 1 (first year after the year of issuance)

    1/1/2022= Year 2 (second year after the year of issuance)

    1/1/2023 = Year 3 (third year after the year of issuance)

    1/1/2024= Year 4 (fourth year after the year of issuance)

    The answer is: good till 1/1/2024.
     
  15. gambit48

    gambit48 Member

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    California’s Clean Air Decals | California Air Resources Board

    When does the new decal expire?
    For decals reissued to applicants with original stickers received in 2017 and 2018, the new decals expire on January 1, 2022. Any decal originally issued after January 1, 2019 expires three full years plus the partial year from when the decal was issued. All decals expire on September 30, 2025.

    Notice the end date? They've always intended the HOV benefit to be for a limited time. They've extended things before, but it was still an extension with an end date in mind for a particular color. Looks like they intend the white and greens to end if issued in 2016 or earlier.
     
  16. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    It looks like you're confusing the general rules (the first part) with the extension rules (the second part). A CAV decal of any color, issued in any year, expires Jan 1 of the 4th year after issuance. Any extension is issued a Red decal, same as a 2018 new application and all Red stickers expire 1/1/2022, which is the 4th year after 2018.
     
  17. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    If you get a new decal in June 2020, it won't be red, it will be some other color.
     
  18. derkan

    derkan June Bug

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    No I don't think so. Where on the pages does it say "Extensions" ? All it says is that white and green decals are still valid until Jan 1 2019.

    If I get a decal in 2019, are you suggesting it won't be red? And that therefore it will NOT expire 1/1/2022, but 1/1/2023 instead?

    My white decal issued in 2016 expires 1/1/2019 which is the 3rd not 4th year after issuance, contrary to your statement "...issued in any year" above
     
  19. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    They changed the wording on the HOV sticker program page yet again. Here is the current text:
    Now, with that new wording, what is not clear to you? The only thing that I see that is not clearly stated is that stickers issued in 2019 will expire on 1/1/2023.

    Your white sticker follows the white sticker rules. White stickers expire on 1/1/2019. Period. Yes, the legislature shafted people who got stickers in 2016 because they don't get the same minimum amount of usage as others. That's just how it is.
     
  20. WSE51

    WSE51 Member

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    I just spoke with California Air Resource Board staffer at 800-242-4450. She confirmed that (a) the DMV has still not issued an application form for existing White Decal owners to apply for the new Red Decal and she has not received any information about when that application will become available, and (b) when it does become available the rule will be the the ORIGINAL White Decal had to be issued on 1/1/2017 or later for the vehicle to be eligible for the new Red Decal.

    She specifically said that if a car had replacement decals due to lost or damaged decals, that's irrelevant .. only the date of original issuance counts.

    The URL of the current application form is https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a2d67782-6ef5-48e5-aa04-12f472ef97b4/reg1000.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

    In the box for why replacement decals are requested, there is no place to check "White to Red transfer" and presumably that will change when DMV starts accepting swap applications.

    If any of you see the new application go live, please post here so all of us will know. Thanks
     
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