Without a NGOM, they can only estimate it. So it's likely going to be based on your array size.
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California Utilities Plan All Out War On Solar, Please Read And Help
- Thread starter gene
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Without a NGOM, they can only estimate it. So it's likely going to be based on your array size.
I went to go look for any prior usage of "Gross consumption of electricity" by the CPUC and there aren't any hits. Looking for a definition of this phrase it appears to be "Gross consumption of electricity is the sum of gross production of electricity and imports less exports of power." This would lean towards the Solar Rights org's interpertation.
How can they figure this out? The CPUC can't do this precisely as there isn't any requirement for a meter after the solar invertor. So, they might opt for the using the AC rated component of the system (NEM 3.0 proposal) to estimate, but they really should be using the monthly PV estimate formula that is specific to your system and location based on the PTO documents.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
That formula is . . . inadequate in many cases, particularly those houses that have installed batteries. I have a 16kw solar system, by that definition, I should be taxed like mad. But when you factor in that the bulk is self consumption and that I'm a next exporter for the year, the formula breaks down on a "fairness" scale.
Mass battery adoption is accelerating, the utilities know this, and they are trying very VERY hard to get something like this in place so that they can continue to milk their customers for egregious profits for little actual grid usage. It's a "directed tax" that goes straight to the utilities' bottom line.
I think that you misunderstood what the definition appears to be "Gross consumption of electricity is the sum of gross production of electricity and imports less exports of power."
- Gross Production = what your 16kw of solar produced
- Imports = what you pulled from the grid
- Exports = what you exported to the grid
- Gross Consumption = Gross Production + Imports - Exports
I didn't say that using Gross Consumption was fair way to distribute costs for keeping Diablo up and running for another 10 years and to be clear I don't like it. IMHO, this fee should added to the Non-Bypassable Charge category and applied to imports from the grid. Customers with ESS could benefit by importing less from the grid.
cpa
Active Member
Something in the cobwebs of my mind recalls that we've been paying a few cents per month for ages into the fund that was supposed to pay for the decommissioning of Diablo Canyon. So, what's gonna happen to those dollars? Will they still be collecting this fee?
This is just another illustration of the coziness between the CPUC, PG&E, and our elected leaders.
This is just another illustration of the coziness between the CPUC, PG&E, and our elected leaders.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
They aren't giving up. Snuck a solar tax into Diablo nuclear bill
Update: Solar Tax defeated, again!
We are happy to report that the authors of SB 846 have agreed to clarify in writing that the bill will not impose a Solar Tax on the solar energy yousolarrights.org
Looks like we won this round. Just got this email:
Announcement
On August 25, 2022, the Commission adopted a decision extending the statutory deadline in this proceeding to August 27, 2023.For previous announcements including the press release, fact sheet, model, and procedural emails, please see the Proposed Decision and Events Following the Proposed Decision sections of this webpage.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Canary Media: Californians saved the grid again. They should be paid more for it. Californians saved the grid again. They should be paid more for it
Last week, for the second time in three years, California’s power grid was strained to the limit by record-high demand in the midst of a searing heat wave. But just like they did during the state’s grid emergencies of 2020, California consumers came to the rescue.
But very few of the owners of these devices are earning money today for their contributions to the grid — certainly not compared to the fossil-gas-fired power plants, utility-scale solar and battery systems and out-of-state electricity importers that sold power for the high price of $1,000 per megawatt-hour in California during the peak of last week’s emergency. By failing to pay people for the services their distributed energy resources can provide, the state risks seeing a valuable set of demand-side resources fail to show up when the grid could use it — and spending far more money than might otherwise be needed on imported power and utility-scale infrastructure to make up the difference.
At around 5:45 p.m. on September 6, as state grid operator CAISO was preparing to initiate rolling blackouts to stave off grid collapse, the California Governor’s Office of Emergency Services issued a statewide text message alert asking people to “conserve energy now to protect public health and safety.” Over the next half an hour or so, demand dropped more than 2,000 megawatts below its record-setting peak of just over 52,000 megawatts.
Last week, for the second time in three years, California’s power grid was strained to the limit by record-high demand in the midst of a searing heat wave. But just like they did during the state’s grid emergencies of 2020, California consumers came to the rescue.
But very few of the owners of these devices are earning money today for their contributions to the grid — certainly not compared to the fossil-gas-fired power plants, utility-scale solar and battery systems and out-of-state electricity importers that sold power for the high price of $1,000 per megawatt-hour in California during the peak of last week’s emergency. By failing to pay people for the services their distributed energy resources can provide, the state risks seeing a valuable set of demand-side resources fail to show up when the grid could use it — and spending far more money than might otherwise be needed on imported power and utility-scale infrastructure to make up the difference.
At around 5:45 p.m. on September 6, as state grid operator CAISO was preparing to initiate rolling blackouts to stave off grid collapse, the California Governor’s Office of Emergency Services issued a statewide text message alert asking people to “conserve energy now to protect public health and safety.” Over the next half an hour or so, demand dropped more than 2,000 megawatts below its record-setting peak of just over 52,000 megawatts.
I highly recommend members here listen to this 30 minutes podcast. It exposes yet another plan by the utilities that goes beyond NEM3.
"Why do studies like these come to the wrong conclusion? For the simple reason that they ignore distributed generation (DG) solar and storage. Solar on the roofs of homes and businesses — especially when coupled with storage — provides less expensive, more reliable and safer electricity. But these DG systems reduce utility profits. So direct and indirect utility-sponsored research almost never considers the superior benefits of DG energy systems.
EVs are great for the environment, but only cheaper to operate if you charge smartly. If you are planning to buy an EV you should definitely charge your car at home, ideally from rooftop solar under full retail net metering. As a reminder to California residents, get that solar system installed soon before the transition to Net Metering 3 next year
For more details on costs associated with EV charging, please tune in to this week’s Energy Show."
"Why do studies like these come to the wrong conclusion? For the simple reason that they ignore distributed generation (DG) solar and storage. Solar on the roofs of homes and businesses — especially when coupled with storage — provides less expensive, more reliable and safer electricity. But these DG systems reduce utility profits. So direct and indirect utility-sponsored research almost never considers the superior benefits of DG energy systems.
EVs are great for the environment, but only cheaper to operate if you charge smartly. If you are planning to buy an EV you should definitely charge your car at home, ideally from rooftop solar under full retail net metering. As a reminder to California residents, get that solar system installed soon before the transition to Net Metering 3 next year
For more details on costs associated with EV charging, please tune in to this week’s Energy Show."
The Energy Show: Gas Stations Are Cheaper Than Public EV Charging on Apple Podcasts
Show The Energy Show, Ep Gas Stations Are Cheaper Than Public EV Charging - Oct 4, 2022
podcasts.apple.com
mspohr
Well-Known Member
California set to release anti-rooftop solar net metering plan
Previous drafts of the plan slashed the value of rooftop solar blaming rich solar-owning Californians for a utility cost shift to less wealthy residents. A new study by Berkeley Labs showed that middle-income and working-class Californians were by far the largest buyers of rooftop residential solar.
pv-magazine-usa.com
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
California set to release anti-rooftop solar net metering plan
Previous drafts of the plan slashed the value of rooftop solar blaming rich solar-owning Californians for a utility cost shift to less wealthy residents. A new study by Berkeley Labs showed that middle-income and working-class Californians were by far the largest buyers of rooftop residential solar.
Time to ramp the representative letter-writing and phone call campaign back up. The utilities are relentless.
Merrill
Merrill
This is always the problem when you have monopolies with no control, they do what ever they want so it is up to us to complain and revolt.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
A sensible rate structure.
www.canarymedia.com
California should use this order as the model for their decision on the future of net metering,” Lazar said. “You don’t have to discriminate against solar customers; you can apply this rate to everybody.”
California’s proposed “dumb rates” slap fees on customers regardless of whether they behave in ways that help or hurt the broader electricity system. A household could buy a battery, store solar production through the afternoon and discharge it when the grid desperately needs clean peak power in the evening, but that household would still have to pay the same generic solar fee as a mansion that dumps unwanted solar on the grid at noon and uses immense amounts of power in the evenings.
Hawaii moves to time-varying 'smart' rates for most utility customers
The first-in-the-nation statewide plan will nudge residents to shift their energy use to times that best align with Hawaii's increasingly solar-powered grid.
www.canarymedia.com
California should use this order as the model for their decision on the future of net metering,” Lazar said. “You don’t have to discriminate against solar customers; you can apply this rate to everybody.”
California’s proposed “dumb rates” slap fees on customers regardless of whether they behave in ways that help or hurt the broader electricity system. A household could buy a battery, store solar production through the afternoon and discharge it when the grid desperately needs clean peak power in the evening, but that household would still have to pay the same generic solar fee as a mansion that dumps unwanted solar on the grid at noon and uses immense amounts of power in the evenings.
All these Hawaii policies make sense. Some fixed cost for everyone, peak solar generation rates are low and peak rates are much much higher. This will hurt a lot of folks with solar without storage actually since they now won't be able to sell back power at pretty high off-peak rates if the on-peak is a multiple factor higher in cost (3x in Hawaii). This isn't new to San Diego which had much higher summer peak rates vs. the low low off-peak (gap was bigger than most of the bay area/US).
I know when I wasn't forced to be on TOU plans, I didn't switch (no solar yet) and just used power whenver I wanted because it all costs the same the me.
Maybe like that non-bypassable charge rate in the other thread with SDG&E rates, pulling power or dependence on the grid should have some cost and if you never pull, you pay very little cost since you aren't touching the grid much/at all.
Other points, utilities don't profit more from cutting use, but it's all capital projects. That's not sustainable:
Under U.S. regulatory principles, utilities earn a profit for building out generation and wires to meet the peak; reducing peaks through simple price signals cuts into those profits.
I know when I wasn't forced to be on TOU plans, I didn't switch (no solar yet) and just used power whenver I wanted because it all costs the same the me.
Maybe like that non-bypassable charge rate in the other thread with SDG&E rates, pulling power or dependence on the grid should have some cost and if you never pull, you pay very little cost since you aren't touching the grid much/at all.
Other points, utilities don't profit more from cutting use, but it's all capital projects. That's not sustainable:
Under U.S. regulatory principles, utilities earn a profit for building out generation and wires to meet the peak; reducing peaks through simple price signals cuts into those profits.
Sounds good - anyone able to find the actual proposed rates there? I haven't been able to find them...A sensible rate structure.
Hawaii moves to time-varying 'smart' rates for most utility customers
The first-in-the-nation statewide plan will nudge residents to shift their energy use to times that best align with Hawaii's increasingly solar-powered grid.
California should use this order as the model for their decision on the future of net metering,” Lazar said. “You don’t have to discriminate against solar customers; you can apply this rate to everybody.”
California’s proposed “dumb rates” slap fees on customers regardless of whether they behave in ways that help or hurt the broader electricity system. A household could buy a battery, store solar production through the afternoon and discharge it when the grid desperately needs clean peak power in the evening, but that household would still have to pay the same generic solar fee as a mansion that dumps unwanted solar on the grid at noon and uses immense amounts of power in the evenings.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Effective Rate Summary
The monthly effective rate summaries for Hawaiian Electric shows the rate schedules and adjustments approved by the PUC.
www.hawaiianelectric.com
So, I think that's only part of it as that doesn't give you the TOU rates, or the demand charge that was mentioned in the article.Effective Rate Summary
The monthly effective rate summaries for Hawaiian Electric shows the rate schedules and adjustments approved by the PUC.
I found the TOU rates here:
Shift and Save
Hawaiian Electric's Time of Use rates can help you save money.
www.hawaiianelectric.com
And some information on NET metering:
Private Rooftop Solar
For residential and small business customers that want to reduce their bill by installing private rooftop solar and battery storage systems that meet specific program requirements.
www.hawaiianelectric.com
Actually that analogy is more apt and more penetrating than most people might think. Both in relationship to energy and in relationship to the medical industrial complex obfuscation of core realities is a central strategy by the plutocrats to maintain control over a system that is staggeringly profitable for them. In the utilities sphere there are a host of lies promulgated by these so-called publicly owned corporations. The real point of anti-net metering rules is to destroy the existential threat of rooftop solar and batteries to their obscene profit levels. A decentralized grid means no more guaranteed monopoly with guaranteed profits. It's great to see the anti-net metering folks talk about how they are "free market Republicans" and supporting the poor against the rich elitist solar radicals.
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