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Because there are only two trip meters and I use A to get distances between various pairs of locations, I use B for lifetime Wh/km figures, but I reset it once a month to watch what happens each month. Three months make a season, whose Wh/km I can calculate quite easily. I can also calculate lifetime average similarly. So you don't need to keep one meter untouched to get that. Just keep track of all the figures from that one meter.
As for charging at 20A or 80A, I've read conflicting opinions on which is better for the battery. I'm not an engineer or scientist, so can't make any claim. It does seem, however, that charging at low amperage is inefficient, which is a different question.
As for charging at 20A or 80A, I've read conflicting opinions on which is better for the battery. I'm not an engineer or scientist, so can't make any claim. It does seem, however, that charging at low amperage is inefficient, which is a different question.
znino
Member
Tom Saxton's battery surveys don't support that hypothesis. The degradation of Roadster batteries only correlated with usage - nothing else.
The Model S battery is so big, that charging at 20A or 50A literally makes no difference to it. 50A is about 12kW. You have an 85 kWh battery. So charging at that rate is about a 0.13C charge rate. No lithium ion battery will be bothered at that low charge rate.
Supercharging at 120kW is charging at about 1.5C. Most lithium ion battery chemistries can handle even that with ease, Tesla's particular chemistry's limit for no degradation seems to be near that limit. But I would not at all be surprised if the no degradation limit was more like 2C. I would bet that the reason Tesla has so far limited Supercharging to 120kW has more to do with heat transfer issues, and physical connector issues more than battery chemistry limits.
Bottom line, there is zero evidence and zero reason to think that repeated charging at any level will harm the battery.
Supercharging at 120kW is charging at about 1.5C. Most lithium ion battery chemistries can handle even that with ease, Tesla's particular chemistry's limit for no degradation seems to be near that limit. But I would not at all be surprised if the no degradation limit was more like 2C. I would bet that the reason Tesla has so far limited Supercharging to 120kW has more to do with heat transfer issues, and physical connector issues more than battery chemistry limits.
Bottom line, there is zero evidence and zero reason to think that repeated charging at any level will harm the battery.
znino
Member
If you are an expert on this, then that's great although I think you are going a bit far saying ZERO evidence and ZERO reason. That kind of categorical answer scares me. I've read plenty of things written by very smart people that suggest the contrary so while I don't necessarily understand every detail I will personally err on the side of caution. Especially since most of the time it makes no difference to me if my car is full charged by midnight or 6am. Why even take a chance? Perhaps I'm too cautious but I really dont see much down side in this case. I also remember Tesla themselves suggesting at some point that superchargers were really not ideal for every day use but rather intended for long distance road trips. I guess it's up to each owner to pick and choose what 'expert' they are going to listen to.
Duckjybe
Member
Here is the evening news version of the Toronto opening with a very shortened interview of our own Jgdixon:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1543332/tesla-motors-opens-first-supercharger-stations-in-ontario/
John, was that your 18650 battery in one clip?
http://globalnews.ca/news/1543332/tesla-motors-opens-first-supercharger-stations-in-ontario/
John, was that your 18650 battery in one clip?
Peter_M
Member
And mknox is quoted in an article in the National Post / Financial Post / Ottawa Citizen about the Ontario superchargers and the gigafactory:
Tesla moves closer to mass-market electric car with Nevada gigafactory, Canadian supercharger stations | Financial Post
Tesla moves closer to mass-market electric car with Nevada gigafactory, Canadian supercharger stations | Financial Post
I hope it is 2C+ for our friends in 60s that are already seeing 1.75. (104-105kW at some sites).
I was careful how I phrased it. I didn't say there wouldn't be degradation, I did say there was no evidence of it, and no reason to think there would be.
What Elon has consistently said, when asked about this, is that battery harm occurs when it is kept fully charged at a high heat level. Which is precisely why the car will warn you when you do a full range charge. Tesla does not recommend people do full range charges on a daily basis, as that probably will degrade the battery.
Jaff
Active Member
Thanks for posting Fraser...(did you read the cement-headed comment about yuppies / EV's being worse than Diesel vehicles / etc. in the comment section?...Wow, lol)
mnx
2018 M3P
Here are a few photos from the event in Toronto on Thursday.
Tesla Supercharger Grand Opening - an album on Flickr
My favourite 2 here (that aren't repeats from what others have posted):
Tesla Supercharger Grand Opening - an album on Flickr
My favourite 2 here (that aren't repeats from what others have posted):
mknox
Well-Known Member
Not a bad article, but I just hate that opening line "Tesla vehicles may still be niche toys for the wealthy..."
I'd really like to see separate pages for each Canadian Supercharger. This "Canadian Superchargers" thread is already very long, and it's tough to find information specific to one site of interest. There should be a separate page for Hope and for Kingston, for example.
Is this a randomly organized thing, i.e. it only happens if someone decides to add a thread?
This.
The moderators aren't so sure that a separate thread is needed for hundreds of Supercharger sites.
If you do want to start some, you should probably do it over in the Charging Infrastructure section. We could index them from here...
I think having separate threads for Western Canada and Eastern Canada makes more sense at this point. I'm interested in progress on all of the ones through BC and probably many people down east are interested in all the ones going on down there.
Jaff
Active Member
I think these sorts of comments will be far less frequent in a few years with the arrival of Gen III...
Jgdixon
Active Member
Yes that is me holding the battery. Unreal that they interviewed me for 3-4 minutes and used only 5-6 words!
I think there was some good info provided for people that don't know much about our cars. Oh well.
Everyone should check this video out. It over an hour but very telling.
Professor Jeff Dahn - WIN Seminar Series - YouTube
Professor Jeff Dahn - WIN Seminar Series - YouTube
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