Cancelling my reservation

[RedOctober]

I can't speak for others, but we're on the Tesla Motor Club forum because we care deeply about Tesla's success. We committed to the purchase of Model S before there was even a car or a factory. Currently we have three sub-200 VIN Signatures. The idea that anyone who dares to offer anything less than phenomenal, fawning comments is somehow illegitimate and is "bashing Tesla" serves no useful purpose in advancing the discussions. Modifying a quote from politics: "My company - when right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be set right".

I have no issue with advancing a discussion but when someone is cancelling and states he is buying a Hyundai then I have a right to my opinion that he enjoy his time on their website. I’m not interested in a GM or Ford product so I don’t waste my time on their sites. It amazes me others who are unhappy or dislike Tesla come on here to bitch about them.

 

[u00mem9]

I have no issue with advancing a discussion but when someone is cancelling and states he is buying a Hyundai then I have a right to my opinion that he enjoy his time on their website. I’m not interested in a GM or Ford product so I don’t waste my time on their sites. It amazes me others who are unhappy or dislike Tesla come on here to bitch about them.

Well...let’s discuss more frankly what is ACTUALLY going on here.

Some people who have been waiting 2 years have decided to cancel their preorders. They have given their rationale as some have requested. Total meh situation.

But, a number of individuals like yourself have become distressed by this situation. They have offered a number of versions of “you are wrong to cancel, and here’s why...”. And those are the nice comments!

What is actually happening is you have something (a reservation for a Tesla or in some cases, the car is you have taken delivery) and you think this is a very prized possession. You waited in line to get it, waited patiently since, and all the while the people around you shared in your valuation if that something. Until they didn’t...

Now a few people have decided they don’t want that precious little thing you have been rubbing between you fingers for 24 months...and that dissonance is causing people on this thread to say insulting things about the tastes, intelligence, and even the honesty of anyone who has chosen to cancel their reservation.

Sad.

 

[N5329K]

Certainly it can’t hold a sheet of 4x8 plywood. Is that why you were underwhelmed?

Nope. No plywood involved.
Every design is a collection of compromises. I think the secret of Model S' success is how few there are. You want a beautiful car? Check. You want an electric car? Check. You want a practical car? Check. You want a high-performance car? Check.
Model 3 came with a different set of compromises. It's good-looking and electric. It's practicality was harmed some by the lack of a hatch or lift back. But for a sedan it was good enough (for me, anyway). The spartan interior looks better in person. The glass roof especially.
But (again, to me) cramming just about every usual car function onto a finicky touch screen with unproven reliability seemed sketchy. I need something in the glove box. Sun glasses. Park pass. Anything. Do I really have to hunt and peck on the screen to open it? Folks sticking their smartphones behind the wheel to serve as a substitute instrument/nav cluster would suggest I am not alone in this. Requiring a smartphone to serve as key seemed sketchy. Folks reporting a sizable number of glitches with this scheme suggest I am not entirely wrong here. Using a swipe card as backup to the phone when it failed seemed sketchy. Let's see, try phone. Fail. Open app, try phone. Fail. Reach for wallet, remove card, wave over the right spot and....eurkea (maybe).
After my drive last week, I was still inclined to keep my reservation, though. What tipped me over the edge was not the lack of plywood hauling ability. It was the pushback in estimated delivery into 2019. I no longer felt the need to compromise on accepting Tesla's design compromises when other, better options will be (or shortly will be) available.
Your willingness to accept these (or other) design compromises will be different. No problem with that.
Robin

 

[McRat]

Have you had a good look at the Bolt? I got to sit in one the other day. Small and doesn’t look good. Now the odd thing with GM is they didn’t built it to look and feel like their Volt which is a much nicer car. If they had they would have, even I would have been interested.

The Bolt addressed some important basic flaws in the Volt:

• Poor frontal and rear visibility. Bolt has 'hollow' pillars in front, high seating position, and less pillar area in back, and 360° bird's eye view, and nearly 180° rear view mirror coverage that goes right though passengers, headrests, and pillars.
• Poor rear seating. The Bolt has much better rear seating than the Volt.
• Difficult ingress and egress. Due to the higher seating position, you not only get better vision of traffic ahead, it's also easier for tall or injured people to get in the vehicle.
• Performance. The Bolt has a significant jump in 30-60mph acceleration for passing. The Volt remains one of the most responsive affordable plug in hybrids, but the Bolt is a lot quicker.

The problems I see in the Bolt:

No RWD option.
No ACC option.
Lack of sports package.
Silly gearshift assy.
No rear passenger infotainment option.
Lacks Super Cruise option.

But all of these also exist on the Volt. None of the defects are relevant to the Model 3 simply because fewer than 1% of reservation holders have access to one. The number of Model 3's on the road is just slightly ahead of the defunct and poorly executed ELR.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

But (again, to me) cramming just about every usual car function onto a finicky touch screen with unproven reliability seemed sketchy. I need something in the glove box. Sun glasses. Park pass. Anything. Do I really have to hunt and peck on the screen to open it? Folks sticking their smartphones behind the wheel to serve as a substitute instrument/nav cluster would suggest I am not alone in this. Requiring a smartphone to serve as key seemed sketchy. Folks reporting a sizable number of glitches with this scheme suggest I am not entirely wrong here. Using a swipe card as backup to the phone when it failed seemed sketchy. Let's see, try phone. Fail. Open app, try phone. Fail. Reach for wallet, remove card, wave over the right spot and....eurkea (maybe).

I drive a Honda, and my assessment of the glove box feature is that it makes not difference whether I press a button on the touch screen to open the compartment, or reach over and pull the release lever. Either way, it's not convenient for me to access it. Anything I might need on a regular basis I keep in the center console compartments, and Model 3 has ample storage in this regard.

The major problem area I've seen with the touch screen is the wiper speed function, but that's been discussed already numerous times. Smartphone as key theoretically should be flawless, but BlueTooth can be a finicky technology, and Tesla should IMO publish a list of pre-tested models of phone so that customers aren't surprised.

 

[McRat]

... Smartphone as key theoretically should be flawless, but BlueTooth can be a finicky technology, and Tesla should IMO publish a list of pre-tested models of phone so that customers aren't surprised.

What about those who do not use a cellphone for driving or navigation? Any car that doesn't have a built in phone is about 14 years behind the times. I can't believe so many folk tolerate cars that lack that simple and cheap feature. Heck, most cars won't even call for help if the car is in a major accident. WTF???? It's the 21st Century. It doesn't require Hollerith cards...

Other than playing Angry Birds or watching Gray's Anatomy while driving, why is there a reason to even have a cellphone to drive? I know you need one to wait in line at the grocery store or use the toilet, but I can't see why it's a driving tool...

 

[McRat]

EDIT - Added. I've been able to unlock my cars with ANY type of phone, not just mine, since Feb 22, 2004.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

What about those who do not use a cellphone for driving or navigation? Any car that doesn't have a built in phone is about 14 years behind the times. I can't believe so many folk tolerate cars that lack that simple and cheap feature. Heck, most cars won't even call for help if the car is in a major accident. WTF???? It's the 21st Century. It doesn't require Hollerith cards...

Other than playing Angry Birds or watching Gray's Anatomy while driving, why is there a reason to even have a cellphone to drive? I know you need one to wait in line at the grocery store or use the toilet, but I can't see why it's a driving tool...

Almost everyone I know now carries a cell phone with them everywhere, and having cellular connectivity built into a car won’t change that.

If my shopping list is on Google Keep or sync’d via iCloud to Reminders, I need my phone to access the list while at the store. If I happen to have a lot of appointments one day, and my calendar is in the Cloud, I need my phone to see what is going on. I may not be at my car if I’m inside an office that isn’t mine or am visiting a customer site. If I want to use Apple Pay, I generally need my phone (although an Apple Watch could work).

People don’t need a cell phone to drive. They might need it for numerous other things at their driving destination. For this reason almost everyone I know keeps their phone with them when out of the house.

 

[ℬête Noire]

It’s not a rebate, it’s a tax credit. A) Different. B) One must qualify for it

Context: I was addressing the complaint about losing out on the $7500 version with pointing out the $3750 one will still likely be in effect, so none of that is particular relevant comment.

It was referred to as a "tax credit", so I'd hope that was clear already (yes, slipped and didn't use the exact words there, I do try to do that typically). The "qualifying" part is really all encapsulated and assumed there already. Past "did Tesla ship more than $200K earlier than X" calendar calculations, and can you gin up enough tax liability in that particular year to use it (if you don't have enough normally, rolling 401K into Roth can do it), you don't even need so much as a pulse to quality. When your estate files taxes "you" still get it.

 

[RedOctober]

Well...let’s discuss more frankly what is ACTUALLY going on here.

Some people who have been waiting 2 years have decided to cancel their preorders. They have given their rationale as some have requested. Total meh situation.

But, a number of individuals like yourself have become distressed by this situation. They have offered a number of versions of “you are wrong to cancel, and here’s why...”. And those are the nice comments!

What is actually happening is you have something (a reservation for a Tesla or in some cases, the car is you have taken delivery) and you think this is a very prized possession. You waited in line to get it, waited patiently since, and all the while the people around you shared in your valuation if that something. Until they didn’t...

Now a few people have decided they don’t want that precious little thing you have been rubbing between you fingers for 24 months...and that dissonance is causing people on this thread to say insulting things about the tastes, intelligence, and even the honesty of anyone who has chosen to cancel their reservation.

Sad.

I never said anything insulting about taste or intelligence, I stated I had no idea why people who want to bash Tesla are on this site and the guy was going to purchase a Hyundai. I told him to enjoy their forum.

 

[ℬête Noire]

The Bolt addressed some important basic flaws in the Volt:

<lots of good points>

The problems I see in the Bolt:

No RWD option.
No ACC option.
Lack of sports package.
Silly gearshift assy.
No rear passenger infotainment option.
Lacks Super Cruise option.

RWD the most subjective on that list but UG, that shifter. I missed that on my Bad list. You mostly get used to it but I still blow an R shift occasionally because it's just not natural what it's having me do. It still strikes me as inane that I can't program the car to default to "L". I always have to double tap through "D" (I never use "D"). However my wife does NOT use "L" only because you get used to it fast and it freaks her out when she goes back to the Camry [lacking the aggressive regen], which would become a different problem since there are no FOB keyed profiles (at least I haven't found any?).

I think the other parts are really overall lack of "tech", it's a throwback in someways. You can't program profiles between the 2 FOBs, not that there are many options to set anyway. It's just so primitive. For example if you use L1 charging (not that L1 is really a viable strategy to use it's range) it always defaults to 8A charging. You have to navigate menus, acknowledge a nag screen that it might burn down your house if you've got crappy wiring. Every...damn...time you plug in.

But all of these also exist on the Volt. None of the defects are relevant to the Model 3 simply because fewer than 1% of reservation holders have access to one. The number of Model 3's on the road is just slightly ahead of the defunct and poorly executed ELR.

I'd suggest in a lot of ways even when the Model 3 comes out it isn't all that relevant since they are simply different vehicles meant to do different things. It's a different format vehicle, a "compact crossover" AKA micro SUV. With the rear entry door and inside height and such that implies. I would never imagine buying a Bolt as my main/sole vehicle, unless I never travel more than 100mi from home and/or would rent a vehicle for all my road trips.

The Bolt only stands up to the Model 3 if:
1) you aren't looking for a sedan
2) you want it NOW and you're way back the queue or don't have a reservation at all

Otherwise it's not much of a comparison to make. Only marginally more than trying to compare a Bolt to a Model S (as those drastically differ on price, too).

 

[McRat]

RWD the most subjective on that list ...

I should have worded that different. Adding RWD would make it an AWD variant. From what I see in the chassis design, it is a possibility.
Lots of CUVs take that approach. They are FWD designs that add RWD to create an AWD model. Teslas are RWD's that add FWD as are pickups and full sized SUVs and most large sedans.

My crystal ball says some of the deficiencies on the Bolt will be addressed at either the 2018.5 or 2019 release. The Volt did not get ACC until later in the 2017 model run. Ditto for Super Cruise on the 2018 Cadillac. And the LLY engine in the 2004.5 pickup. And the full 360HP output and 6-sp for the 2006 pickup. And the list goes on.

My suspicion comes from the late release of the 2018 Bolt which had virtually no changes. Something did not meet the deadline.

 

[ℬête Noire]

My suspicion comes from the late release of the 2018 Bolt which had virtually no changes. Something did not meet the deadline.

Or they purposely held off on adding options to create differentiation with the other products under the premium brands. Either way, yeah it seems likely. They might try find a gap to sell into based on still having full tax credit (for a while anyway) and product on the floor that you can walk in and buy....although the later brings up the other big issue with Bolt et al not brought up yet. Difficulty getting exactly the options you want [in a timely manner] and having to deal with dealerships sales people, the later can be OK or can be exasperating.

P.S. Unit availability might become an issue anyway, as GM is slow walking production as limited by their battery supply. They got down to cast-off residue on the 2017 inventory. Even though the slow arriving 2018 enabled that it a good sign for EVs in general, the Bolt was no Aztek.

 

[jjrad]

Trust me the Bolt and Leaf are not competition. Only EV loyalist will purchase these ugly cars- Zero cool factor. Porsche mission E and Electric Mini should add some competition Cancel don’t cancel who cares, it’s just a car - that said I will have 3 soon

 

[McRat]

Trust me the Bolt and Leaf are not competition. Only EV loyalist will purchase these ugly cars- Zero cool factor. Porsche mission E and Electric Mini should add some competition Cancel don’t cancel who cares, it’s just a car - that said I will have 3 soon

Trucks, SUVs, Camrys sell like hotcakes. Perhaps aesthetics might not be the deal breaker you think for most Americans.

 

[JHWJR]

Big difference between "can't" and "hasn't done it yet."

 

[FlyingKiwi]

Just submit a cancel request. Landed back in NZ this morning, saw the model 3 on display at Century City while i was in the USA,

Looked better in person than it does in some photos. Only had 2 minutes in the car, but still don't like the interior - Mainly the dash and over done reliance on the touchscreen instead of physical controls for essential controls. Don't like auto lights or wipers, would rather have a stalk.
Yet another failure to hit production ramps and subsequent pushback of delivery estimates.. so no idea when they will actually start shipping base model in RHD, so i'll take my money back and reassess when the current car starts failing inspections. Might be yet another 5-6 years in ICEs for me.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I hear GM Bolts are on time. Perhaps no wait at all.

Tesla’s delays in achieving Model 3’s $35,000 price might open the door to other electric cars

 

[sreams]

I need something in the glove box. Sun glasses. Park pass. Anything. Do I really have to hunt and peck on the screen to open it?

I understand some of the complaints about functionality being available only on the touchscreen... but not this one. In my current car, I can't even reach the glove box button from the driver's seat if my seatbelt is on. In the Model 3, you simply tap the car icon, and then tap the button to open the glove box. It's one of the easiest things to do with the touchscreen, and something that can't be done at all in several other cars if you are driving.

 

[sreams]

The problems I see in the Bolt:

No RWD option.
No ACC option.
Lack of sports package.
Silly gearshift assy.
No rear passenger infotainment option.
Lacks Super Cruise option.

I'd also add... for those who care about aesthetics, the Bolt is a rather large step backwards from even the Volt. And for many (me included) a higher seating position is not desirable. I prefer cars that give you a sense that you are connected to the road and that do not raise the center of gravity.