Center screen.. Why not flush?

[yesup]

Can they do that? Put the image ahead of the car? I thought they projected it onto the windshield. But then, I have no idea how HUD works.

Yes, they use optical lens and mirrors to project the image on the windshield at a virtual distance from your eyes.
For car use, the projection distance is usually around the front of the car, for aviation/pilots use, they project the image at infinity.
And that's why a good HUD system is not cheap and much more complicated than those $20 ebay "HUD" display.

 

[Chris L]

I suppose the people who object to the speedometer next to the upper right of the steering wheel never use their rear view or side mirrors (which requires a head movement). I check my mirrors more often than the speedometer. Checking the speedo would just be a quick rotation of the eyes (no head movement required), and actually less movement than down to a speedometer behind the steering wheel. When I am about to change lanes, I turn my head and look over my shoulder (mirror blind spots); certainly this requires more effort than a quick glance at the speedometer, or the mirrors, but I do not consider this head movement to be a burden (it's just driving).

 

[Fiddler]

... Can they do that? Put the image ahead of the car? ...

Place a half sheet of paper on the car dash and look at the reflection in the windshield. The eye needs to focus past the windshield by the distance the paper is from the windshield.

I used to study physics, engineering and poetry while driving by printing the large text backwards and setting it on the dash. The backwards white text on the black background made the forward white text float over the hood of the car. Worked great.

 

[yesup]

I used to study physics, engineering and poetry while driving by printing the large text backwards and setting it on the dash.

really??? LOL

So you turn the pages as you drive?
I wouldn't recommend it though.... you've got to be pretty distracted as you try to memorize those text

 

[JeffK]

I used to study physics, engineering and poetry while driving by printing the large text backwards and setting it on the dash.

Keep in mind the "while driving" part is illegal in many states. It's considered distracted driving.

 

[daniel]

Yes, they use optical lens and mirrors to project the image on the windshield at a virtual distance from your eyes.
For car use, the projection distance is usually around the front of the car, for aviation/pilots use, they project the image at infinity.
And that's why a good HUD system is not cheap and much more complicated than those $20 ebay "HUD" display.

Thanks for posting that. As I said, I had no idea how it works. With luck, in a year I'll be able to say whether I like it or not.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I must not check my speed nearly as often as others, because I see no issue removing the display behind the steering wheel
(full disclosure: I do drive nearly exclusively on freeways in stop and go traffic where the primary reason to look at the speedometer is to lament not yet reaching 15MPH)

I made this comment earlier. Why do we need so much information?

No RPM's
No Gas Gauge
No Temp Gauge
No RPM

Oh yeah, we might need to know how much battery is left.

I suppose the speedometer might be included in a law somewhere, but other than that.......what do we really need?

 

[Garlan Garner]

The MFD in your Prius is right at the center and sits much further away.
The screen in Model 3 is much closer to the steering wheel, and I estimate that the eye movement from car in front to Left Upper Corner of Model 3 screen is LESS than from car in front to traditional instrument panel. Also remember that for some drivers, the steering wheel could be blocking part of the traditional instrument panel.

First, I don't think there will be HUDs, but if they do, good HUD would put its image focal point just ahead of the car, so you would not lose focus on the road.

That is really unattractive. I've only ever seen one HUD that has been even remotely attractive. I hate HUD's

 

[N5329K]

I made this comment earlier. Why do we need so much information?

No RPM's
No Gas Gauge
No Temp Gauge
No RPM

Oh yeah, we might need to know how much battery is left.

I suppose the speedometer might be included in a law somewhere, but other than that.......what do we really need?

Here are some of the things I'd like to see:
Performance information: speed, navigation, time to destination, charge remaining, charge at destination, nearest charge point, etc.
Battery information: charge state, battery temperature, etc.
Systems information: autopilot state, what the autopilot is "seeing", master caution with drill down to specific systems faults, environmentals (inside and outside), hi-lo beams, etc.
Entertainment: the usuals
Robin

 

[boiler81]

Here are some of the things I'd like to see:

Turn signal indicators?

 

[Bokonon]

True. One can hope. I also think not having an instrument cluster is a mistake. The thought is the HUD will make up for it but I'm skeptical a HUD will be 100% visible in all lighting conditions, like sun on the horizon blaring you in the face, or foggy window conditions, heavy rain, etc

My [perhaps overly-optimistic] viewpoint is that, if the Model 3 ultimately goes to production with a HUD standard, then it means that Tesla has engineered an "industry-leading" HUD that solves for these common issues. Otherwise, you'll see a digital instrument cluster a la Model S/X.

We've seen Tesla's prototypes dream big before -- think side-mirror-less Model X prototype -- but we've also seen Tesla walk some of those dreams back in their production vehicles, in the name of practicality, usability and driver experience. I would not be surprised if the same holds true for the Model 3's HUD aspirations (though personally I am rooting for that cutting-edge HUD).

 

[Garlan Garner]

Turn signal indicators?

I hope I know which way I'm turning. I don't really need any lights to tell me which way.

 

[JeffK]

Here are some of the things I'd like to see:
Performance information: speed, navigation, time to destination, charge remaining, charge at destination, nearest charge point, etc.
Battery information: charge state, battery temperature, etc.
Systems information: autopilot state, what the autopilot is "seeing", master caution with drill down to specific systems faults, environmentals (inside and outside), hi-lo beams, etc.
Entertainment: the usuals
Robin

The question really was not what you want the center screen to be able to show. Instead, what exactly do you need while driving in order to drive safely (and legally).

Most instrument clusters have a few things

Fuel gauge, speedometer, rev counter, and temp gauge (plus misc indicators).

In an EV, you don't need the rev counter and you really don't need the temp gauge either. If the battery overheats or experiences a failure I'm sure the center screen can notify you of a fault. There's no reason to monitor it while driving. Many modern ICEs don't even come with temperature gauges anymore, just a dumb warning light. Modern ICEs don't need long warmup times anymore. The only temp that matters is too hot.

You therefore need only a few things while driving. Speedometer, battery SOC gauge (or range estimate might be more beneficial), and it might be handy to have the gear selected in view (very useful in a parking lot or a garage, as humans sometimes select the wrong gear).

When you take a look at the upper left of the unfinished prototype UI. You can see the battery SOC, speed, and gear (the gear is not in every pic though, it's missing in this pic). Everything is in one spot and it's easy to see (even easier if the map wasn't up).

 

[alseTrick]

I think it's very likely the display is much more integrated into the dash, if not fully flush, come production time. It just doesn't make sense, at least to me, from a safety and functional standpoint. Why would you want dead space between the back of the display and the front of the dash? Why would you want those edges protruding into the cabin to potentially smash heads in the event of an accident?

But fact of the matter is, nobody in this thread actually knows what the finalized interior is going to look like. Anybody speaking as if they do, in absolutes, is basically just lying to you. The same goes for the finalized nose/hood, steering controls, trunk, options packages, base mileage (aside from 215+ miles), battery sizes, colors, etc.

 

[yesup]

But fact of the matter is, nobody in this thread actually knows what the finalized interior is going to look like. Anybody speaking as if they do, in absolutes, is basically just lying to you. The same goes for the finalized nose/hood, steering controls, trunk, options packages, base mileage (aside from 215+ miles), battery sizes, colors, etc.

What you says can apply to almost the entire Model 3 forum!
After all, we are having a discussion based on a car which no one has seen or driven in its production form!
I believe most readers understand this when joining in the discussion here for Model 3. So no one is lying to any one else.

Why would you want dead space between the back of the display and the front of the dash? Why would you want those edges protruding into the cabin to potentially smash heads in the event of an accident?

Because a fully flush mounted screen at that height and at that size (for a horizontally placed screen) would mean a huge and thick dash.
So a fully integrated screen is out of the question. They may partially integrate the bottom of the screen, but most of the top part of the screen would be sticking out.
The protruding edge is not a problem, just use round corners +/- softer material. Many Mercedes have sticking out screens with round corners.

And of course, these are not facts, just my speculations.

 

[22522]

I think the display is where it is for passengers, in what is a small autonomous car ideally full of people. It needs to be there for a comfortable view from the rear seats. This kind of forces HUD for focal distance reasons.

That precludes dash integration just for visual weight reasons.

 

[hehe]

Yes, they use optical lens and mirrors to project the image on the windshield at a virtual distance from your eyes.
For car use, the projection distance is usually around the front of the car, for aviation/pilots use, they project the image at infinity.
And that's why a good HUD system is not cheap and much more complicated than those $20 ebay "HUD" display.

I see a lot of people thinking there will be a Head-Up Display in the Model 3.
This picture is exactly why I have doubts.
I don't think there is enough space, since the steering wheel is a lot closer to the lower side of the windscreen.

 

[AssortedBread]

I think the display is where it is for passengers, in what is a small autonomous car ideally full of people. It needs to be there for a comfortable view from the rear seats. This kind of forces HUD for focal distance reasons.

That precludes dash integration just for visual weight reasons.

Bingo.

Finally someone gets it.

See my profile picture where I merged these two photos.

 

[melindav]

think it's very likely the display is much more integrated into the dash, if not fully flush, come production time. It just doesn't make sense, at least to me, from a safety and functional standpoint. Why would you want dead space between the back of the display and the front of the dash? Why would you want those edges protruding into the cabin to potentially smash heads in the event of an accident?

I posted the following last June to why the prototype screen mount will not likely make its way into the production cars.

for anyone that has a car built in the last 50+ years (since 1968), go out and look in the passenger compartment and find a sharp protruding corner. there aren't any because the NHTSA doesn't allow them. (having starting my first dozen years of driving in a 1967 while my friends had cars not older than them , I feel I have some first hand knowledge of what changed in vehicles between 67 and after)

"FMVSS 201 ...no sharp or pointed parts can be placed in the vehicle interior that an occupant can come in contact with during a frontal crash"
​

The display will be wrapped into the dash without corners protruding that you could be impaled on or poke your eye out with.

 

[S3XY]

Yes, they use optical lens and mirrors to project the image on the windshield at a virtual distance from your eyes.
For car use, the projection distance is usually around the front of the car, for aviation/pilots use, they project the image at infinity.
And that's why a good HUD system is not cheap and much more complicated than those $20 ebay "HUD" display.

I see a lot of people thinking there will be a Head-Up Display in the Model 3.
This picture is exactly why I have doubts.
I don't think there is enough space, since the steering wheel is a lot closer to the lower side of the windscreen.

Could they have the HUD come from the back of the center display? That would give them some additional distance to work with. I think they would have to increase the size of the back mount to do that but since it's behind the display it would be hidden anyway. The down side would be the complexity added by having to aim the HUD at an angle to get the display directly in front of the driver.

My other thought would be to align the HUD's inner workings parallel to the windshield. There should be enough space in the dash to do it and it would give you all the distance you could need. The trickiest part would be the last mirror(s) that would have to change the reflection from being parallel to the windshield to perpendicular to it.