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Chademo or no Chademo?

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by Smiley, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    Ok, I’ve been considering forking out the extorniate price for a Chademo adapter to give me more charging opportunities during long distance travelling. Reason being that the places that I mostly travel long distances to don’t have nearby SC on route and there seems to be more Chademo chargers available, this is both in UK and abroad.
    Does anyone else use a Chademo adapter and how often do you find yourself using it?
    I guess Chademo charging would incurr a fee, is there a more common app that I should consider using?

    Any advise is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Tevvy

    Tevvy Member

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    I’ve thought about buying one but never have. I’ve always managed with SC and destination charging.

    They seem to be very expensive for what they are. Most reasonably fast chargers have type 2 connectors anyway.

    I appreciate there will be places you might want a chadamo but for the price I’ve never thought it worthwhile.
     
  3. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    I bought one about 3 months ago. I have used it around 10 times BUT each time I have used it it has saved me a load of time and effort. Charges at about 43kW so about half the speed of a supercharger but still fairly fast. Its also good for piece of mind, i was quite surprised and impressed by the speed. You can actually rent one from somewhere (can't remember where) if you wanted to try before you buy.

    It has worked out quite well when using PolarPlus (free via OVO) as its actually cheaper for me to drive to the local charger and charge via chademo (9p per kWh) that it is to charge at home.
     
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  4. DJP31

    DJP31 Member

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    @Tevvy considering all the technical gubbins that’s inside the CHAdeMO adapter apparently it’s not overpriced.

    @Smiley I think the way you’ve asked the question suggests you think it’s a good idea, it’s the cost that puts you off. I bought one 16 months ago when I got my car, and I’ve used it 3 or 4 times. Two of those were this weekend when I did more miles that I thought I was going to. I was 2 mins from a Genie Point or 60 miles round trip to a Supercharger. Destination charging wasn’t available. Without it I would have been compromised in what I could do for the first time since getting the car. The cost was 30p per kWh. Cheap considering I needed it.

    I considered the cost a form of insurance policy and against the overall cost of ownership of a Tesla it pales into insignificance. It only has to be useful once to be worth the cost.

    As to which charging networks, there are a fair few, I’d start with those that are on the routes you normally use.
     
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  5. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    Just to add, for chargers that are priced by time you get twice as much charge for the same price.
     
  6. LoveEV

    LoveEV Member

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    Chademo has been truly useful and got me out of a sticky situation in south of france away for the SuC network. Also is great with the ever growing motorway services that have high power chargers.
     
  7. Evoforce

    Evoforce Member

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    Yes, Chademo!
     
  8. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    Thanks for replies chaps.
    I think I’m going to bite the bullet and get one...if only for extra charging opportunities when travelling far and wide.
    Most helpful, cheers
     
  9. DJP31

    DJP31 Member

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    You won’t regret it. Using the public charging network also acts as a reminder of just how good, simple to use and reliable the Supercharger network is. :)
     
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  10. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    I've never found a half decent, rapid, Type-2, all the ones I've encountered seem to be around 20-30 mph (for what I wanted at the time, they were fine). Dunno what the top speed charge rate of Type-2 is? but I think 50 MPH. Not sure if the max speed is dependent on the charger fitted to the car? Mine does not have dual-chargers.

    A 50 kW CHAdeMO is around 170 MPH. Its DC, so bypasses the car's on-board charger (same as Supercharger). The real-world actual figures I have used have given me about 40kW. Looking at TeslaFi my charge rate (50%-90% which would be sweet-spot for CHAdeMO) was 10% every 15 minutes = 88 MPH (actual real world miles gained ). Taper doesn't start until 86% and is minimal until about 92%

    My Supercharger speed (varies with battery size) works out around 10% each 5 mins, up to about 70%. For my car that is 132 MPH (that's real world miles)

    As you say, it depends on your journeys. I can tootle up the A1 / M1 no bother, but when i turn off to York that's 30% from the Supercharger, so 60% there-and-back, leaving me with 40% in York for running around; deduct 20 miles "comfort" and that's 68 miles so probably OK. But in Winter it will be nearer to 40% each way, leaving me with just 20% for running around ... just 24 miles allowing for "20 miles comfort"

    Best outcome in that situation is Destination charging, I very rarely find that (e.g. at a hotel) so unless there is type-2 only a short walk from hotel (e.g. then plug in overnight) I'm definitely better off with CHAdeMO but even so I'm likely to need to park up for an hour
     
    • Informative x 1
  11. culverwood

    culverwood Member

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    Bought CHAdeMO adaptor in March 17 have not used it yet but probably worthwhile for peace of mind.
     
  12. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    I get 18kW on type 2 AC from a rapid charger and about 43kW via chademo.
     
  13. DJP31

    DJP31 Member

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    Yes it is limited to the on-board charger. It's either 11kW, 16kW or 22kW. I think Facelifts are 16kW, @arg will know I expect. As has been pointed out AC charging is rarely of any real use except as a destination option, which leaves SuC and the CHAdeMO adapter as the en route options. Max I've seen is 40kW, which at a higher SoC is as good or better than a SuC. Probably not "better" from the battery POV as the SuC taper rates must be for a good reason, but given I use the CHAdeMO once in a blue moon I'm not about to lose any sleep over it.
     
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  14. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    Originally, before deliveries started in the UK, EU Model S accepted 16A (single or 3-phase, so 3.5 or 11kW) unless you paid extra for the second charger which doubled those ratings.

    Given the prevalence of 32A single phase chargepoints in the UK, all UK Model S were delivered with the second charger physically fitted, but with a software lock to limit current to 16A on three-phase unless you had paid the extra. So still 11kW base or 22kW if you paid for 2nd charger. This charger design was purely current limited, so you could get up to 24kW out of it if the mains voltage happens to be high.

    There were rumours of a hardware fix to allow 32A single phase on single-charger cars, but I'm not convinced it ever appeared.

    The new charger appeared on Model X. This supports up to 24A three-phase or 32A single phase (I'm not sure if the single phase behaviour has ever been fully explored). Unlike the old design, there's an overall power limit so you won't see more than 16.5kW out of it. At launch, there was still a paid-for option to get the full 16.5kW rating, so the base model was 11kW. This made the paid option even worse value for money, so nobody well-informed in the UK will have ordered it (I'm not sure how many less well-informed owners there might be).

    At around the time of the Model S facelift, the new charger design from Model X appeared in Model S. Again, full 16.5kW was extra cost.

    Subsequently, 16.5kW became standard and the extra-cost option disappeared. I don't have an exact date for this.

    So:

    a) Cars delivered in the last year or so are all 16.5kW max on 3-phase, 7.3kW on single phase.

    b) If buying a used facelift car from before the cutoff date, it's very likely to be 11kW software limited.

    c) If buying a pre-facelift car from around 2015-16, it's very likely to be "software single charger" and so 11kW (12kW on a good day). Very few will have paid the extra to enable the second charger, though you should still be able to activate it retrospectively at a price.

    d) If buying a pre-facelift UK car from 2014/early2015 (ie. before the CHAdeMO adapter), it's quite likely to have dual chargers enabled since there were few Superchargers and the ability to charge at 22kW on Ecotricity sites made the option seem worth having. Still, not everybody took it so some are software limited to 16A (11kW).

    e) If contemplating a LHD import from Europe, beware that many were physically single charger and will charge at painfully slow 3.5kW on a typical home or public chargepoint (11kW on three-phase).
     
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  15. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    Aug 17 build MS for me and i definitely get 18kW on Type 2 AC.
     
  16. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    Is 18 a typo for 16, or are you saying you get more than 16.5 when the voltage is above nominal?
     
  17. DJP31

    DJP31 Member

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    My S 75D was built in 12/16 and I have used one high power AC unit which is a Genie Point 43kW (the CHAD wasn't working :(). I've just looked back and I had an average "download speed" o_O of 10.94kWh. Ties in with your timeline of changes.
     
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  18. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    I definitely mean 18. I have to pop out in a few hours so I will go and plug it into a rapid AC PolarPlus and take a screenshot of the charge on the app. I will then unplug and take another one using the chademo as a comparison.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. .jg.

    .jg. Member

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    My thinking/experience is similiar. I have driven a bit in the south of England and have driven to Toulouse and back - and I have only used superchargers or destination chargers so far. I have the Type 2 adaptor, which seems to be well supported in the UK and on the continent but I have not yet used it. The Chademo seems like an expensive thing that would take up space in the car and I would be unlikely to ever use it.
     
  20. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    It very much depends where you are (and where you go to). As it happens, the last time I used mine was in Weston Super Mare!

    If you live on a node of the motorway network with superchargers in every direction, that removes the need for it for "get to destination" purposes.

    If you are happy to book accommodation based on the availability of destination charging, that removes the need for it to top up for local driving at a destination.

    I still use mine quite often, but admittedly more often nowadays for convenience than out of necessity. For example, in that recent WSM trip, I could obviously have stopped at Gordano on the M5 and supercharged there, but viewing the seafront at WSM was a more enjoyable way of passing the time.
     

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