Change from alcantara to cloth on PUP???

[S3XY]

Just as I clicked that link, my wife walked over and looked over my shoulder and was wondering why I'm looking at a Neiman Marcus female's wool coat for $1,400 -- and her birthday is next month... I tried to tell her the Tesla forum lead me there but now you put ideas in her head!

Don't worry. You can just give her a premium fake suede coat and she will be even happier.

 

[RobStark]

Don't worry. You can just give her a premium fake suede coat and she will be even happier.

 

[Uptownman]

Arrrgghh... ok. I read it. <--- I say this with great hesitation.

A delivery employee wouldn't know such things....let alone pass that kind of info on to customers.

Do you have the reddit link?

I've enjoyed the back and forth and you have made some excellent customer relations points. I'm not an engineer but rather have spent decades dealing with people, so often I have to make judgments on things for which I may not have access to all the facts.
In this case I ask myself whether it seems more likely a supplier of a low margin commodity would say "we're done" after multiple production ramps misses, (as per a Tesla store employee); or, is it more logical for Tesla to plan to make a couple of thousand cars with a material they show in all their marketing material... and then switch to a lower grade material and hope no one notices?
If the former is in fact the case what do you think a delivery person should say? Tesla has already given their answer in their press release. Eventually the truth tends to expose itself, we'll see.

cheers

 

[John Beans]

Instead of giving up on the Alcantera, maybe Tesla should have gotten creative. For instance, every time a Prius gets in wreck or is junked, they should strip out the fuzzy headliner and transplate it so that another Model 3 owner can continue to enjoy the feel of a fuzzy roof that until now no one gave a *sugar* about on the least important surface of the car. Just an idea.

 

[Sunshine State]

How do you know the same thing in that picture would come out of Alcantara?
How do you know the same wouldn't happen with Alcantara? My guess is the detailers who worked on your car didn't know what they were doing, especially if they abraded the premium textile trying to remove the stain.

From personal experience and what I've read online, most synthetic fabrics respond to stains in similar ways because they're mostly made with polyester/polyurethane. If something will come out of Alcantara after wiping it down with water, it'll likely do the same in premium textile.

If it's not water based and doesn't come out with water, then it's probably an oil, which should come out with ethanol/*chrloroethylene/etc, and if it's an ink, it'll probably come out with Acetone, although regardless of the material/stain/solvent I would definitely test whatever I was using on someplace out of the way first.

VWVortex.com - How to clean beige headliner?

Dry cleaning - Wikipedia

It looked like it was just dirt imbedded in the weave of the fabric. I didn’t buy the car, I bought both an S and a X with the PUP, Alcantera, and have been able to wipe any marks off so far.

 

[S3XY]

I've followed most of this discussion and am struck that no one seems concerned that apparently after just 2000 vehicles a supplier "stopped talking to us" per a Tesla employee. When you commit suppliers to meeting a projected run rate and then drastically change/reduce that rate a couple of times you have created huge issues with hundreds of suppliers. They have ramped up and capitalized expenditures based on Elons projections. Some will be able to deal with that, many will not and will have ample reason to end their relationship and focus on their larger, legacy customers. The headliner material is a commodity item and easy to switch out, not the case with custom parts. Although even this switch can cause customer complaints. This is not a good indication about how the other "thousand" suppliers have dealt with planning errors. Delays of 3 to 6 months cause serious costs in automobile manufacturing. This "Alcantara" issue could be the "canary in the coal mine" with regard to problems caused by the delayed product ramp. Personally I'll be surprised if this is not the only hiccup. my 2 cents

SELL! SELL! SELL!

 

[Moderatefan]

Was there an explanation yet for the fact that door panels are supposedly still alcantara-like? (Given that supplier stopped talking etc. - was that maybe a "partially stopped talking" for the purposes of headliner but not the doors?)

 

[MotoEvCA]

I've followed most of this discussion and am struck that no one seems concerned that apparently after just 2000 vehicles a supplier "stopped talking to us" per a Tesla employee. When you commit suppliers to meeting a projected run rate and then drastically change/reduce that rate a couple of times you have created huge issues with hundreds of suppliers. They have ramped up and capitalized expenditures based on Elons projections. Some will be able to deal with that, many will not and will have ample reason to end their relationship and focus on their larger, legacy customers. The headliner material is a commodity item and easy to switch out, not the case with custom parts. Although even this switch can cause customer complaints. This is not a good indication about how the other "thousand" suppliers have dealt with planning errors. Delays of 3 to 6 months cause serious costs in automobile manufacturing. This "Alcantara" issue could be the "canary in the coal mine" with regard to problems caused by the delayed product ramp. Personally I'll be surprised if this is not the only hiccup. my 2 cents

Suppliers rarely stop talking to customers..... Especially if the contract is stable and profitable to the company. They stop talking when...

• Litigation is pending
• The company buying the product tries to modify the terms of the contract - longer payback terms, decrease volume after supplier has laid out monies and made capital investments based on the original stated volumes, etc.
• Dispute over product quality - should not be a problem if Tesla QA performed proper due-diligence
• Failure to receive payment for product based on the terms of the contract

A small supplier can go bankrupt if the purchasing company fails to honor the terms as agreed upon. Most do not have huge capital resources and may have sub-contractor to pay upfront

We all know Tesla projected a volume of production that they have moved out repeatedly (could not make it happen). If their communication to the supplier is anything close to how Tesla treats end-product customers - we have our answer

 

[MotoEvCA]

Was there an explanation yet for the fact that door panels are supposedly still alcantara-like? (Given that supplier stopped talking etc. - was that maybe a "partially stopped talking" for the purposes of headliner but not the doors?)

Door cards are usually handled/produced by a supplier off-site and delivered for integration with the door assemblies. Similar color but it is highly probable Tesla is using an alcantara-like product.

OEM Headliner Suppliers
OEM Interior Trim Suppliers

 

[stopcrazypp]

Suppliers rarely stop talking to customers..... Especially if the contract is stable and profitable to the company. They stop talking when...

• Litigation is pending
• The company buying the product tries to modify the terms of the contract - longer payback terms, decrease volume after supplier has laid out monies and made capital investments based on the original stated volumes, etc.
• Dispute over product quality - should not be a problem if Tesla QA performed proper due-diligence
• Failure to receive payment for product based on the terms of the contract

A small supplier can go bankrupt if the purchasing company fails to honor the terms as agreed upon. Most do not have huge capital resources and may have sub-contractor to pay upfront

We all know Tesla projected a volume of production that they have moved out repeatedly (could not make it happen). If their communication to the supplier is anything close to how Tesla treats end-product customers - we have our answer

Funny all of your options assume the buyer is at fault. One other option is the small supplier itself is having problems getting the material. There was an article posted of Alcantra S.p.A. making a decision to cut supply to smaller distributors last year given overwhelming demand from the larger clients.
Here’s Where You Can Still Buy Alcantara

 

[Jason S]

Was there an explanation yet for the fact that door panels are supposedly still alcantara-like? (Given that supplier stopped talking etc. - was that maybe a "partially stopped talking" for the purposes of headliner but not the doors?)

Could be that the doors are made by one company and the headliner is made by somebody else. The oddball one is the sun visor which is both materials, which leads me to believe they really did plan this all for the 2018 cars. Who knew there were Signature series Model 3s

 

[MotoEvCA]

Elon stated himself that Tesla severed that relationship.

Elon Musk Says Mobileye Forced Tesla Vision "Across the Rubicon" | Inverse

I recall Mobileye did not like how far Tesla was trying to push their technologies given their 'loose' controls, and the appearance of lack of failsafes they felt were needed for Level 3-4 autonomy. Mobileye started getting nervous that Tesla's implementation was going to result in safety concerns /problems and Mobileye would be the one getting the black eye.

Compare what hardware Audi has put in it's new A8 compared to what Tesla is doing:
There’s no one feature that seems to be behind the company’s decision to go up to Level 3, but there are certainly a lot of new technologies. There are computers from Nvidia and other firms, an image processor from Mobileye, and a really huge array of sensors: 12 ultrasound sensors, five cameras, five radars, one infrared camera for night vision. Most notable of all, there’s lidar—the first ever offered on a production car. The unit, a forward-looking one, comes from Valeo.

 

[MotoEvCA]

Funny all of your options assume the buyer is at fault. One other option is the small supplier itself is having problems getting the material. There was an article posted of Alcantra S.p.A. making a decision to cut supply to smaller distributors last year given overwhelming demand from the larger clients.
Here’s Where You Can Still Buy Alcantara

FUNNY Your Base Assumption May Be Wrong. You don't know the actual product Tesla is using. Tesla has an alcantara-like material on the visors, headliner, and door cards. They could all be different alcantara-like materials.

Please provide evidence Tesla is using a trademarked alcantara product in their cars?

Just because you find an article off the web DOES NOT mean it applies to Tesla. If Tesla is using a trademarked product, the manufacturer requires the tradmark to be referenced in materials.

 

[MP3Mike]

I would be interested to see how people here would break-out the $5000 cost of PUP for all it contains.

Here is what I came up with:

• Fake leather seating materials: $800
• Rear seat heaters: $200
• Premium textile/"Alcatara" accents: headliner, pillars, visors, door panels: $200
• Open pore wood décor: $50
• Two rear USBs: $50
• 12-way, power adjustable front seats: $400
• Power adjustable steering column and side mirrors: $100
• Premium audio system with more power, tweeters, surround speakers and subwoofer: $1750
• Tinted glass roof with ultraviolet and infrared protection: $750
• Auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors: $200
• LED fog lamps: $300
• Center console with covered storage and docking for two smartphones: $200

 

[stopcrazypp]

FUNNY Your Base Assumption May Be Wrong. You don't know the actual product Tesla is using. Tesla has an alcantara-like material on the visors, headliner, and door cards. They could all be different alcantara-like materials.

Please provide evidence Tesla is using a trademarked alcantara product in their cars?

Just because you find an article off the web DOES NOT mean it applies to Tesla. If Tesla is using a trademarked product, the manufacturer requires the tradmark to be referenced in materials.

Doesn't matter. The same hypothetical can still apply even if they use the non-branded version. If supply of the branded product is so short that the company has to cut distributors, then it's not unusual for there to be similar pressure on similar unbranded products as companies look for alternatives.

And as a generic comment, the comment doesn't even have to be talking about alcantara-like materials, but that sometimes it's the supplier that fails to deliver on their end.

 

[phil0909]

This has been the case for over a decade.

This is exactly the concern - that the Model 3 ramp will be the same old poorly executed and poorly communicated effort we've seen for over a decade. That can be made to work at low volumes. But not at the volumes planned for Model 3.

 

[RobStark]

This is exactly the concern - that the Model 3 ramp will be the same old poorly executed and poorly communicated effort we've seen for over a decade. That can be made to work at low volumes. But not at the volumes planned for Model 3.

Why?

 

[FlatSix911]

Good Grief ... almost 1000 posts to this thread!

 

[FlatSix911]

Alcantara over fabric every time...

 

[FlatSix911]

Great ... made it to 1000 posts!