Changes in production april->

[JazzJackrabbit]

I am considering buying a X75.
But i heard rumuors about more insulation in the doors in august production.
More silent inside the car.
Same i expect new batterypacks next year with greater charging speed.

I have a august 14 S85 and don't want slower supercharger charging when the consumption would be 250Wh instead of 220Wh in winter with S85. Any thoughts.
Is it worth it to skip it and wait for next year and get less for my old S85?
If i know that prices would hold because of cheaper production og battery cells and i get more tech next year i better wait. But we have a good finance deal at the moment (end of quarter)...

 

[dragonxt]

I am considering buying a X75.
But i heard rumuors about more insulation in the doors in august production.
More silent inside the car.
Same i expect new batterypacks next year with greater charging speed.

I have a august 14 S85 and don't want slower supercharger charging when the consumption would be 250Wh instead of 220Wh in winter with S85. Any thoughts.
Is it worth it to skip it and wait for next year and get less for my old S85?
If i know that prices would hold because of cheaper production og battery cells and i get more tech next year i better wait. But we have a good finance deal at the moment (end of quarter)...

In August new seals? I thought they were already replaced in May? Where did you hear this?

The new cells are not going to benefit you much, they're just better chemistry and are smaller. You get the same 75 KhW.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

In August new seals? I thought they were already replaced in May? Where did you hear this?

The new cells are not going to benefit you much, they're just better chemistry and are smaller. You get the same 75 KhW.

No, not seals. I mean that they put more insulation inside the interior panels to make the car less noisy inside.
That was my biggest drawback With the X. The facelift S are a lot more quiet inside because, i guess it has more insulation inside the doors etc.

 

[andrewket]

No, not seals. I mean that they put more insulation inside the interior panels to make the car less noisy inside.
That was my biggest drawback With the X. The facelift S are a lot more quiet inside because, i guess it has more insulation inside the doors etc.

We have both a refresh S and and an X, and had a classic S before that. I find the X the quietest of the three. Wheel and tire choice make a big difference. Our X has 20" all seasons whereas the S has 19" performance rubber.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

We have both a refresh S and and an X, and had a classic S before that. I find the X the quietest of the three. Wheel and tire choice make a big difference. Our X has 20" all seasons whereas the S has 19" performance rubber.

I have an august 2014 S85 With original 21" tires with some silent rubber. Lexani LX Twenty.
When i tried the X i feel more noise, mainly because of a bigger cabine. That said my S are terrible in 2nd row, because a lot of wheel noise. Without the parcel shelf and it is terrible.
Have somebody measured the actual sound pressure, dBA? It is correct as you said, it all depends on wheel setup and also adjustment on the height of the car, type of gravel, rain, etc. etc. I think a owner needs to own both of them like you and make a comparison on standard setup. 19" on S and 20" on X as i guess you have? I also see that X came with ContiSilent in the US, that could make a big difference.

 

[dragonxt]

I am considering buying a X75.
But i heard rumuors about more insulation in the doors in august production.
More silent inside the car.
Same i expect new batterypacks next year with greater charging speed.

I have a august 14 S85 and don't want slower supercharger charging when the consumption would be 250Wh instead of 220Wh in winter with S85. Any thoughts.
Is it worth it to skip it and wait for next year and get less for my old S85?
If i know that prices would hold because of cheaper production og battery cells and i get more tech next year i better wait. But we have a good finance deal at the moment (end of quarter)...

Do you know where you heard this? I haven't come across it.

Seems like a strange thing to be a rumor.

 

[vandacca]

In August new seals? I thought they were already replaced in May? Where did you hear this?

The new cells are not going to benefit you much, they're just better chemistry and are smaller. You get the same 75 KhW.

I disagree with the above. Firstly, the individual cells are actually larger (21x70 vs 18x65). So, 2mm larger diameter and 5mm taller.

I agree, the chemistry is likely better, but there are so many variables with batteries (longevity, faster charge/discharge, density, etc.) Usually, when you improve one or more variable(s), you sacrifice some of the other(s).

In this case, since Tesla has already hinted at faster charging with V3, I have to imagine that the new chemistry will be able to handle it. I predict that V3 Super-charging will be announced at the end of September, along-side the Tesla Semi-truck announcement.

Finally, there are also rumours of 80kWh packs replacing 75kWh...
Of course, a lot of this is speculation...

 

[boofagle]

Does anyone know if the current packs are at their technical limit for supercharging or could they be capable of more? At the shareholder meeting Elon mentioned they're constantly working on improving supercharging speed but I couldn't decipher whether he meant with current tech or just talking in generalities for the future. If they stay with the new batteries for awhile I would have to imagine they'll be capable of faster charging. If that's the case and we can hold Tesla to their word on bringing the newest tech to the S/X first I'd imagine the new packs would come sooner than the end of the year.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

Do you know where you heard this? I haven't come across it.

Seems like a strange thing to be a rumor.

I think it was in a comment o.

I disagree with the above. Firstly, the individual cells are actually larger (21x70 vs 18x65). So, 2mm larger diameter and 5mm taller.

I agree, the chemistry is likely better, but there are so many variables with batteries (longevity, faster charge/discharge, density, etc.) Usually, when you improve one or more variable(s), you sacrifice some of the other(s).

In this case, since Tesla has already hinted at faster charging with V3, I have to imagine that the new chemistry will be able to handle it. I predict that V3 Super-charging will be announced at the end of September, along-side the Tesla Semi-truck announcement.

Finally, there are also rumours of 80kWh packs replacing 75kWh...
Of course, a lot of this is speculation...

Totally agree with you. I have read the same and heard the same rumours.
SEMI needs faster charging. Higher charging speeds also require more kWh to cooling. They make the packs as dense as possible, but would they use the same overall pack size? If they do, they have less space for cooling. But i know Mr Musk are in the Space industry, so he could have used some benefits from there Could you charge the new batterypack faster without adding more cooling? When they are more dense they will have less space for letting heat out.

But there is anyway a limit on the smaller battery packs. It cannot recieve unlimited amount of power at an given time. I Guess there is a X point where you are using energy on cooling instead of putting juice on the battery.

Based on this the eventually new 80 pack for X will then charge faster at SC and have som 3-4 kWh extra, but I think it is not Worth it if the prices also will make a jump. If i would by a larger pack it will make more sense. But together with this I also get a 2018 modell.

I am just afraid to walk into the same pothole as last time when i buy some days before 4WD models was available and some weeks before Autopilot was launched.

 

[vandacca]

I think it was in a comment o.


Totally agree with you. I have read the same and heard the same rumours.
SEMI needs faster charging. Higher charging speeds also require more kWh to cooling. They make the packs as dense as possible, but would they use the same overall pack size? If they do, they have less space for cooling. But i know Mr Musk are in the Space industry, so he could have used some benefits from there Could you charge the new batterypack faster without adding more cooling? When they are more dense they will have less space for letting heat out.

But there is anyway a limit on the smaller battery packs. It cannot recieve unlimited amount of power at an given time. I Guess there is a X point where you are using energy on cooling instead of putting juice on the battery.

Based on this the eventually new 80 pack for X will then charge faster at SC and have som 3-4 kWh extra, but I think it is not Worth it if the prices also will make a jump. If i would by a larger pack it will make more sense. But together with this I also get a 2018 modell.

I am just afraid to walk into the same pothole as last time when i buy some days before 4WD models was available and some weeks before Autopilot was launched.

So, the overall density should be higher with the new 2170 batteries. They are larger, but they also contain more capacity, so they should require fewer individual cells overall. It should work out that there will be more space between the cells and hence better thermal management.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

Does anyone know if the current packs are at their technical limit for supercharging or could they be capable of more? At the shareholder meeting Elon mentioned they're constantly working on improving supercharging speed but I couldn't decipher whether he meant with current tech or just talking in generalities for the future. If they stay with the new batteries for awhile I would have to imagine they'll be capable of faster charging. If that's the case and we can hold Tesla to their word on bringing the newest tech to the S/X first I'd imagine the new packs would come sooner than the end of the year.

They had issues with the 90 packs. Owners are reporting loss in charging speed (90kW) after several XXX DC charging sessions.
So it seams like the batterylife is not happy with these great speeds.
I am very sure they have solved this with the new cell and batterypack design.
I have not heard similar stories with the old 60,85 packs before dualdrive.
The New 100 pack are different.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

So, the overall density should be higher with the new 2170 batteries. They are larger, but they also contain more capacity, so they should require fewer individual cells overall. It should work out that there will be more space between the cells and hence better thermal management.

Yes, but they are also maybe going to step up a 75 to a 80 and then they have used the space they gained from higher capacity cells.
Or have i misunderstood something? I have not made calculation on this topic.

 

[vandacca]

Yes, but they are also maybe going to step up a 75 to a 80 and then they have used the space they gained from higher capacity cells.
Or have i misunderstood something? I have not made calculation on this topic.

True, I was assuming similarly sized packs. I'm not too concerned about 75 -> 80 because I'm assuming that the pack isn't completely filled (since it also needs to handle 100kWh too). But you bring up a good point since I'm thinking the 80 simply has 1 complete module removed.

 

[JazzJackrabbit]

True, I was assuming similarly sized packs. I'm not too concerned about 75 -> 80 because I'm assuming that the pack isn't completely filled (since it also needs to handle 100kWh too). But you bring up a good point since I'm thinking the 80 simply has 1 complete module removed.

From my point of view the packs needs to be made as cheap as possible per kWh. They needs to spread the cells through the hole package too get a good ratio on weight on front/rear Axel. This means a 80 pack will have "free space" for cooling.
If the cell can handle the input, there will not bee a problem to make same charging speed on a 75 as a 100 pack.
I don`t see the reason why it should not bee. The only reason would be that it will differ the price/ what you get.
Today i think many experienced Tesla owners choose the 90 instead of 75 because of faster charging and not because they get some 50-80km ekstra range.

 

[mohanman]

If its true they are adding sound insulation to doors, do you think current owners can get that retrofited? Thats the only thing I don't like about my X is the noise when trucks drive by, it vibrates the interior. Also my seat is uncomfortable
Thanks
MM

 

[Yinn]

We have both a refresh S and and an X, and had a classic S before that. I find the X the quietest of the three. Wheel and tire choice make a big difference. Our X has 20" all seasons whereas the S has 19" performance rubber.

I agree with this statement 100%

My AP1 X on 20" w/ Conti's is the same level as my AP2 X, both of which ride smoother/quieter than my AP2 S. My S is on 19" All Seasons.