Charging with 220V 13A socket in Hong Kong

[arg]

I think those pictures epitomize why Tesla are concerned about 13A charging. Would be terrified to see the wiring behind that, and what does "20A, Lamp load 10A" mean? :scared:

"Lamp load" refers to ordinary incandescent lamps, which take a huge current surge when first turned on, and hence are quite aggressive to the contacts of the switch used to turn them on. It is good practice to use a switch of higher rating than the total operating current of the lamps.

Since timeswitches are quite commonly used to switch lamps, the manufacturer has specified a specific limit on the amount of lighting they recommend to be controlled with their switch, rather than leaving it to the electrician's judgement (or requiring him to look it up in a datasheet).

Fortunately, the Model S is the complete opposite of a lamp load - it starts low and gradually ramps up the current, so is quite kind to switch contacts.

On the other hand, I have to agree that I'd think twice before using such a circuit for charging unless I knew what it was originally intended for.

 

[model xxx]

i saw nissan leaf was park here and charge.so it use for tesla car?

"Lamp load" refers to ordinary incandescent lamps, which take a huge current surge when first turned on, and hence are quite aggressive to the contacts of the switch used to turn them on. It is good practice to use a switch of higher rating than the total operating current of the lamps.

Since timeswitches are quite commonly used to switch lamps, the manufacturer has specified a specific limit on the amount of lighting they recommend to be controlled with their switch, rather than leaving it to the electrician's judgement (or requiring him to look it up in a datasheet).

Fortunately, the Model S is the complete opposite of a lamp load - it starts low and gradually ramps up the current, so is quite kind to switch contacts.

On the other hand, I have to agree that I'd think twice before using such a circuit for charging unless I knew what it was originally intended for.

 

[arg]

i saw nissan leaf was park here and charge.so it use for tesla car?

Well, the Leaf's 13A-plug EVSE (the "Nissan EVSE cable" as they call it on the Nissan website) charges at 10A, so if you got an equivalent EVSE for the Tesla then it would be exactly the same load as the Nissan.

 

[markwj]

Moderator's Note: Some other threads / posts have been moved here, as they all relate to 13A charging in HK.

 

[msxsnow]

Please forgive me if it's a silly question. But would the Dual Charger be applicable to the 13A / 10A charging ?


I am currently looking at carpark around my home, and if they provide a 13A socket, based on the TS salesman, each hour would only give me around 10KM range, so to fillup a 85KW MS, I will need around 5-6 nights. But if Dual Charger is helpful in this circumstances, this could be another solution for me !




Cheers

 

[markwj]

Please forgive me if it's a silly question. But would the Dual Charger be applicable to the 13A / 10A charging ?

No. The limiting factor is 220V x 13A = 2.86kW. A single charger can easily handle that.

Dual charger is primarily of use when available current >40A. IF you could get access to 80A HPWC (High Power Wall Charger), for example, a dual charger car would charge at roughly twice the speed of a single charger car.

 

[Hkpkfan]

No. The limiting factor is 220V x 13A = 2.86kW. A single charger can easily handle that.

Dual charger is primarily of use when available current >40A. IF you could get access to 80A HPWC (High Power Wall Charger), for example, a dual charger car would charge at roughly twice the speed of a single charger car.

I was wondering the exact same question. If the dual charger is helpful or not and in what situations. It appears only once I have the charging solution figured out, then I can determine if the dual charger is worth it.




Now what if we visit a supercharging station? Do we go from a 20-30 minutes charge to a 10-15 minute charge (with dual charger)?

 

[msxsnow]

Thanks @markwj and @mchk. I think I got it now. Things has just become more interesting now, just realise my estate do have CLP installed EV Charger in the Visitor's Carpark, am going to check it out tonight, and see how can I work with the MO in-order to allow me using it.

 

[markwj]

Now what if we visit a supercharging station? Do we go from a 20-30 minutes charge to a 10-15 minute charge (with dual charger)?

The superchargers don't use the on board chargers at all. Power goes directly to the battery, so no difference single vs dual charger.

 

[sonywong]

No, the supercharger use DC current and you don't need dual charger to get the fast charging speed.

 

[Hkpkfan]

Thanks for the clarification....So pretty much it's going to come down to what is installed at home...

The supercharge doesn't make a difference.

The only other thing I'm considering is the public chargers but out of the 1,000 most are 13amps. It shows 4 for the Tesla Roadster 70A (which I'm not sure works for Model S). I'm not sure if those other charger types work for Model S either.

I saw only these few as Medium to Quick charging stations (fromhttp://www.enb.gov.hk/en/resources_publications/guidelines/index.html):

Quick Chargers	10
CHAdeMO
ex-Operational Headquarters of Hongkong Electric港燈前營運大樓	1	CHAdeMO
Centenary Building of CLP中電百周年大樓	1	CHAdeMO
Hong Kong Science Park (Car Park 2)香港科學園 (2號車場)	1	CHAdeMO
Choi Yuen Shopping Centre (Car Park 3)彩園商場 (3號車場)	1	CHAdeMO
Star Ferry Car Park天星停車場	1	CHAdeMO
Yau Lai Shopping Centre油麗商場	1	CHAdeMO
Shui Pin Wai Estate水邊圍邨	1	CHAdeMO
Stanley Plaza赤柱廣場	1	CHAdeMO
Yue Wan Estate漁灣邨 **	1	CHAdeMO
Hong Kong International Airport (Carpark 4)香港國際機場 (4號停車場)	1	CHAdeMO
"Medium to Quick" Chargers	6
Tesla - Roadster
Hopewell Centre 合和中心	2	70A (Tesla)
Hong Kong SkyCity Marriott Hotel 香港天際萬豪酒店	1	70A (Tesla)
Le Meridien Cyberport香港數碼港艾美酒店	1	70A (Tesla)
IEC 62196
Choi Yuen Shopping Centre (Car Park 3)彩園商場 (3號車場)	#4	IEC 62196
Choi Tak Shopping Centre彩德商場	#5	IEC 62196
Yau Lai Shopping Centre油麗商場	#6	IEC 62196
Kwai Chung Shopping Centre葵涌商場	#7	IEC 62196
Cheung Fat Shopping Centre長發商場	#3	IEC 62196
Hong Kong International Airport (Carpark 4)香港國際機場 (4號停車場)	#4	IEC 62196
SAE J1772
Choi Tak Shopping Centre彩德商場	#5	SAE J1772
Kwai Chung Shopping Centre葵涌商場	#7	SAE J1772
Maritime Square青衣城	1	SAE J1772
East Point City東港城	1	SAE J1772
Shui On Centre 瑞安中心	#1	SAE J1772

 

[sonywong]

HK spec. Model S support those IEC 62196 in your list and you need an adapter to use Roadster's chargers

 

[Hkpkfan]

Model S support those IEC 62196 in your list and you need an adapter to use Roadster's chargers

Thanks.

I'm not far from Hopewell Centre nor am I far from Cyberport (meaning within 20 minutes drive).

I guess even if I didn't have a dual charger NOR a home charger, I could make it a point to do a weekly visit to Cyberport and do a super-charge.

At first I was thinking what a waste of fuel/energy/gas/time to drive 20 minutes to refuel the car, but that's thinking like an owner of an ICE vehicle, who are used to stopping at the nearest pump at home or the first one they drive by. Here a 20 minute drive involves a free fill up. No wasted gas, no extra pollution.

In fact, I'm sure ANY ICE driver would go 20 minutes drive out of his way if he can get a free tank of gas and only had to wait 20-30 minutes to fill up. Potentially 1 hour of his week inconvenienced for the price of free gas..FOREVER.

I've heard people driving out of their way when they hear about gas .20 cheaper back in the U.S.

Sorry I'm rambling a bit, but I'm just justifying the Tesla purchase, EVEN IF I'm unable to get a charger in the carpark of my residence (which is probably 50/50 chance).

 

[Vmax]

mchk,
No extra pollution while driving an EV is not entirely true. There is pollution while generating the electricity we need for an EV. If the electricity is purely generated from coal, the carbon emission of an EV is not that much better than an ICE. However if the electricity is generated my a mix of coal, natural gas, wind, sun etc, the carbon emission reduction of an EV is substantial.

 

[markwj]

mchk,
No extra pollution while driving an EV is not entirely true. There is pollution while generating the electricity we need for an EV. If the electricity is purely generated from coal, the carbon emission of an EV is not that much better than an ICE. However if the electricity is generated my a mix of coal, natural gas, wind, sun etc, the carbon emission reduction of an EV is substantial.

Depends which study you reference, and which figures you believe. Based on what I've read, even powered by electricity 100% from coal, the average EV is significantly less polluting than the average ICE vehicle. But, let's keep this thread on topic. There are lots of other threads here regarding that.

 

[DITB]

Regarding the dual chargers - consider what might be in the future, the development of the charging infrastructure. Maybe you will visit a friend who has an 80A wall charger? Maybe they will be all over the place in a few years?

The price is much less if you get a factory installed dual charger. Retrofit is .over twice the cost, use the search function ... OK, I did it for you, go straight to a post (by me, incidentally ) right here:

What specs are you planning? - Page 8

 

[waidy]

Adding to MCHK's list, there is one IEC62196 in Mongkok

- - - Updated - - -

Markwj is right - To extract and refine one gallon of gasoline takes about 6kWh of energy. That much electrical power can power a typical electric vehicle about 20-24 miles. When driving ICE, only about 25% of the energy of gasoline is used to propel an ICE. The other 75% of the energy is wasted as heat, in addition to energy to extract, transport and refine.

Depends which study you reference, and which figures you believe. Based on what I've read, even powered by electricity 100% from coal, the average EV is significantly less polluting than the average ICE vehicle. But, let's keep this thread on topic. There are lots of other threads here regarding that.

 

[CCT]

Thanks.

I'm not far from Hopewell Centre nor am I far from Cyberport (meaning within 20 minutes drive).

I guess even if I didn't have a dual charger NOR a home charger, I could make it a point to do a weekly visit to Cyberport and do a super-charge.

At first I was thinking what a waste of fuel/energy/gas/time to drive 20 minutes to refuel the car, but that's thinking like an owner of an ICE vehicle, who are used to stopping at the nearest pump at home or the first one they drive by. Here a 20 minute drive involves a free fill up. No wasted gas, no extra pollution.

In fact, I'm sure ANY ICE driver would go 20 minutes drive out of his way if he can get a free tank of gas and only had to wait 20-30 minutes to fill up. Potentially 1 hour of his week inconvenienced for the price of free gas..FOREVER.

I've heard people driving out of their way when they hear about gas .20 cheaper back in the U.S.

Sorry I'm rambling a bit, but I'm just justifying the Tesla purchase, EVEN IF I'm unable to get a charger in the carpark of my residence (which is probably 50/50 chance).

Yes mchk, I'm with you haha

 

[msxsnow]

Thanks guys ! now I get the main purpose for the dual charger.

And just realised my estate visitor's carpark was listed on CLP's EV charging location. Been there for check, and just saw a couple metal box with lock covering it. Guess I still have to fight with MO to see if I am able to use it, and to solve my huddle to getting the MS.

 

[EBill]

The dual chargers made the most sense to me for four reasons:
1. The probability we will have to pay for parking while charging is very high. So the less time spent charging means a lower parking charge. My better half is exceptional at getting free parking at shopping malls as she solves the amount of money we need to spend versus the stores and time required to achieve the free parking validation. So the longer we stay to charge the more we buy to get free parking validation.:biggrin:
Generally speaking, less time spent charging is more time to do something that is a better use of my (our) time.
2. The infrastructure can be expected to get better over time. That is, more superchargers and more HPWC. This is supported by the recent change in the TMHK configuration web page and conversations with TMHK that those who order a dual charger car now will get upgraded to the 80 amp charger later in the year (or next year) when they come out on the HK market.
3. Ordering the car with dual chargers is less expensive now then a retrofit later.
4. Resale value / consideration. I would also have to believe in a few years when I may have to sell my car that a buyer having a choice between single and dual charger cars will pick the dual charger car.

All of the above assumes no access to overnight charging at home or at work. In the resale market years down the road that scenario is more likely that many people will not go to the extremes that the enthusiasts on this forum will do to drive a Tesla.

I am currently working with my landlord and MO to get approval to install a charging point. The proposal is to run about 65 meters of cable from my third floor apartment meter to a charge point next to my parking spot.
I was going to go with the EV power installation. Now that the 40 amp charger is supplied with the car (upgraded to 80 amps later this year as mentioned above), a decisions has to be made to go with the Tesla supplied unit or EV power. The MO office has tentatively agreed to the EV power unit, the Tesla unit approval is to be determined. If I can go with the Tesla unit I will install the required switchgear and cable size to go with the 80 amp unit. William, the Tesla expert at the service center, has been very helpful with my questions on this topic.