Chevrolet Spark EV

[cwerdna]

True, but not if you have had any experience with Toyota service.

I've owned my current Toyota (a Prius) since 06. I had another Toyota from 97 to 01. My parents have 1 Toyota (since late 01), they had another from 96 to 08 (before it was totaled) and one from 91 thru 97 before it was passed to me. We've all generally had ok to good service experiences w/Toyota service depts.

Sure, there are some bad apples out there (I've heard no shortage of such stories on Priuschat), but I generally have been able to find out which dealers are bad and don't go there.

The big problem with the RAV is that it's a compliance car and everyone knows it. Few want to purchase a car that they know will be discontinued as soon as Toyota can legally do it.

I don't think the above has much to do it with it. There's just a lack of awareness of the vehicle at all. Then, there's the sticker shock of the upfront cost (esp. compared to the ICE Rav4) and lack of awareness of the incentives. The lack of good leasing deals doesn't help.

It was selling poorly before the redesigned Rav ('13+) came out but I don't think a new body style/generation helps, when trying to move what's now a previous gen.

I think the Spark may sell much better than the RAV considering it's price point. Part of the RAV problem IMO is it's not AWD, which is a harder sell for an SUV.

Wouldn't matter to me nor many (most?) Californians (which is where it's sold). My dad has an old 02 ICE FWD Rav4.

None of us (parents and myself) have ever owned an AWD or 4WD vehicle.

 

[JRP3]

Good point. Projecting my own views on the world :redface:
<--I tend to like extra drive wheels :wink:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Heh. I even lived in WA state for a total of 9 years (Seattle area), where we'd get occasional snow. Long ago, I considered buying an AWD/FWD capable Lexus RX. I balked when I saw the price of even the FWD RX. I only had only FWD and a RWD car when up there.

For my stay up there, the RWD had at least 2 summer-only tires that were considered suicide to use in the snow. So, that car stayed put whenever there was and danger of snow.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The big problem with the RAV is that it's a compliance car and everyone knows it. Few want to purchase a car that they know will be discontinued as soon as Toyota can legally do it.

The exact number of Rav4 EV production has been public from day one. If people really cared about that, I'd worry more about the Spark that we don't have any public data points for how many (but it's easy to figure out). I'm guessing somehow you're thinking the converted Spark, like the converted Rav4, is not built for CARB compliance? If so, I disagree.

GM may sell the Spark EV other places than California, but I ABSOLUTELY guarantee that they will sell a few thousand in California in three years.

The lower price point than a Rav4 should make it easier to move the small number that they must move, but now you're getting into competition with a whole bunch of other cars. It's just not going to be that easy.

 

[gregincal]

Wouldn't matter to me nor many (most?) Californians (which is where it's sold). My dad has an old 02 ICE FWD Rav4.

None of us (parents and myself) have ever owned an AWD or 4WD vehicle.

The main reason to own a 4wd SUV in California is to take it to the mountains. However, since the Rav4 EV doesn't have the range to make it to the mountains anyway, it's kind of a moot point.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The main reason to own a 4wd SUV in California is to take it to the mountains. However, since the Rav4 EV doesn't have the range to make it to the mountains anyway, it's kind of a moot point.

A bit self centric, don't you think? I can drive to all kinds of mountains, and actually people that LIVE in the mountains are already there.

 

[castigador55]

Chevrolet Spark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chev SPARK is the grandson of Korean DAEWOO MATIZ designed in 1998. the first generation is known as Daewoo Matiz or M-100

30.000 M-100 sold in China in 2012 Mini e-cars taking over rural China - YouTube

An M-100 powered by electricity costs only 5000 dollars in china .. the Chinese still do not have the Lithium Ion technology in 100%. But when the Chinese down the costs of lithium ion the electric cars have come down in price in the world.

 

[rabar10]

Chevrolet Spark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chev SPARK is the grandson of Korean DAEWOO MATIZ designed in 1998. the first generation is known as Daewoo Matiz or M-100

30.000 M-100 sold in China in 2012 Mini e-cars taking over rural China - YouTube

An M-100 powered by electricity costs only 5000 dollars in china .. the Chinese still do not have the Lithium Ion technology in 100%. But when the Chinese down the costs of lithium ion the electric cars have come down in price in the world.

Thanks for the links and welcome to the forums!

As you point out, the relation of the M100 EV to the Spark EV is limited - the M100/Matiz was released two model generations and 15 years ago as a conventional ICE city car. In China, it's being converted to an EV with lead-acid batteries and is speed limited to around 30mph, unlike the new Spark EV's Li-ions and freeway speed ability.

In the US the electrified M100 would fall under the Neighborhood Electric Vehicle or NEV classification.

 

[castigador55]

Thanks for the links and welcome to the forums!

As you point out, the relation of the M100 EV to the Spark EV is limited - the M100/Matiz was released two model generations and 15 years ago as a conventional ICE city car. In China, it's being converted to an EV with lead-acid batteries and is speed limited to around 30mph, unlike the new Spark EV's Li-ions and freeway speed ability.

In the US the electrified M100 would fall under the Neighborhood Electric Vehicle or NEV classification.

or is practically similar to these:

- - - Updated - - -





In Chinese rural towns use is valid on congested roads filled with thousands of motorcycles .. That car was designed 15 years ago showing that Chinese factories do not spend money on design ... economic electric is a car you need a market thirsty for Cars and dammed by the Chinese government .. One can have money to buy a car but the government does not allow it .. The potential of the Chinese market is much bigger than the Norwegian. The company that can design a small car, economical and partner with a Chinese factory to mass produce will become the automaker's future .. DAIMLER is partnering with BDY to market an electric car factory in china ... "DENZA" The Daimler partnership with Tesla is not free, Tesla did not save them because they are "good Samaritans". They wanted access to technology to put to work the Chinese in this technology ..



Excuse my English .. I only speak Spanish and use google translator .. and thanks for welcoming me to this forum .. I would love to someday have a electric car but as I live in a country where gasoline is free not think anyone is willing to bring electric cars to my country.

 

[cwerdna]

Excuse my English .. I only speak Spanish and use google translator .. and thanks for welcoming me to this forum .. I would love to someday have a electric car but as I live in a country where gasoline is free not think anyone is willing to bring electric cars to my country.

Heh. Yeah, I doubt it. I've heard that gasoline there is under 10 cents (US)/gallon.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The exact number of Rav4 EV production has been public from day one. If people really cared about that, I'd worry more about the Spark that we don't have any public data points for how many (but it's easy to figure out). I'm guessing somehow you're thinking the converted Spark, like the converted Rav4, is not built for CARB compliance? If so, I disagree.

GM may sell the Spark EV other places than California, but I ABSOLUTELY guarantee that they will sell a few thousand in California in three years.

The lower price point than a Rav4 should make it easier to move the small number that they must move, but now you're getting into competition with a whole bunch of other cars. It's just not going to be that easy.

It's a compliance-plus car, meaning that it's about more than compliance. The motor/drive unit's being built in Baltimore, and torque numbers nearly match the Volt, which suggests that it could become a base for Volt motor manufacturing, and it'll help get the motor manufacturing going with small numbers before adding the Volt.

 

[Bearman]

Excuse my English .. I only speak Spanish and use google translator .. and thanks for welcoming me to this forum .. I would love to someday have a electric car but as I live in a country where gasoline is free not think anyone is willing to bring electric cars to my country.

Hi and welcome to the forum, just wanted to point out that even though gas prices in Venezuela are very cheap they are not free because they are subsidized by lost revenue.
Just to give you an idea:
The implicit gasoline subsidy in 2010, compared with what is established in the 2011 National Budget Law, represents 2.9 times what the national budget has earmarked for health care, 70 percent more than allocated for education, and almost four times more than proposed spending on universities.

 

[castigador55]

Hi and welcome to the forum, just wanted to point out that even though gas prices in Venezuela are very cheap they are not free because they are subsidized by lost revenue.
Just to give you an idea:
The implicit gasoline subsidy in 2010, compared with what is established in the 2011 National Budget Law, represents 2.9 times what the national budget has earmarked for health care, 70 percent more than allocated for education, and almost four times more than proposed spending on universities.

true .. to give you an example the police is so bad that almost all residential buildings have to pay private security. Where I live there are 40 houses and decided to pay private guards on 12-hour shifts to provide 24-hour surveillance. Electricity is also heavily subsidized but the service is bad, it is common to see power outages of up to two hours several times a month .. although the bill is very cheap electric company, electricity is very expensive because you have to invest in UPS backup power plants or electric ..

 

[TonyWilliams]

It's a compliance-plus car, meaning that it's about more than compliance. The motor/drive unit's being built in Baltimore, and torque numbers nearly match the Volt, which suggests that it could become a base for Volt motor manufacturing, and it'll help get the motor manufacturing going with small numbers before adding the Volt.

Compliance-Plus(TM) :love:

Well, a big piece of the puzzle as to why GM's marketing strategy seems so willy nilly is because they must sell in California for CARB-ZEV credits, but they also must sell some place (any? place) other than California in order to claim that it's not "just" a compliance car.

That's the threshold to get the NRG / EVgo deal to be required to start including 200 Frankenplug stations paired with the 200 CHAdeMO stations throughout California over 4 years (110 pairs in LA area, 20 pairs in San Diego, and the rest up north).

 

[fengshui]

Fascinating comment from an Inside EVs article regarding the torque numbers on GM's new motor:

I am the general director for Electric Drives and Electrification Systems Engineering at General Motors. I need to disabuse you of the mistaken notion that this motor has less than 400 ftlb of Torque. The Spark EV motor is designed and manufactured by GM. This motor makes 540 Nm (402 ftlbf) of Torque at stall and out to about 2000 rpm. This is not gear- multiplied axle torque, but actual motor shaft torque.
The very high torque is motor performance that we are very proud of, and customers will notice the difference: (It has a gear reduction of 3.18 to 1, so the axle torque is the product of these two). This is a very low numerical reduction ratio, which has several great benefits – 1) Feels much better to drive. 3.18:1 is less than half of the reduction of all other EVs. This makes for extraordinarly low driveline inertia, less than 1/5 of the driveline inertia of the Nissan Leaf and 1/4 that of the Fiat 500 EV. Their cars feel like you are driving around in second gear all day long; ours feels like fourth gear. 2) Lower gear mesh, spinning losses, and lower high speed electromagnetic losses mean very high drive unit efficiency. The Spark EV efficiency from DC current to delivered Wheel torque is 85% averaged over the city driving schedule and 92% when averaged over the highway schedule. This is the highest in the industry, and that is one of the reasons why the Spark EV sets the benchmark for most efficient car.

From http://insideevs.com/2014-chevy-spark-ev-gets-epa-range-rating-of-82-miles-119-mpge-combined/

 

[TonyWilliams]

Fascinating comment from an Inside EVs article regarding the torque numbers on GM's new motor:

I think we got all that from the previously linked data on the Spark motor, but interesting that anybody at GM would care to respond!!! It does sound like one heck of a motor, and I suspect the lower motor spinning speed "may" be of value (with 3.17 gear reduction versus about 8:1 on LEAF and 10:1 for Tesla / Rav4 / Mercedes B Class EV).

My 4000+ pound Rav4 EV will still out run it!!

 

[fengshui]

I think we got all that from the previously linked data on the Spark motor, but interesting that anybody at GM would care to respond!!! It does sound like one heck of a motor, and I suspect the spinning speed "may" be value (with 3.17 gear reduction versus about 8:1 on LEAF and 10:1 for Tesla / Rav4 / Mercedes B Class EV).

Yeah. That whole exchange in the comments is pretty interesting. I think that with the low gear-reduction, we'll see decent 0-60 times, but nothing like a Tesla, as the GM motor just can't generate high enough speeds to provide high axle-torque through 60mph. On the other hand, it may scream at 0-20mph. We'll see when it comes out.

Edit: More fun: Someone deleted the comment I quoted above.

 

[qwk]

Fascinating comment from an Inside EVs article regarding the torque numbers on GM's new motor:


From http://insideevs.com/2014-chevy-spark-ev-gets-epa-range-rating-of-82-miles-119-mpge-combined/

Extreme window sticker: Tesla Roadster 2.5 estimated at 119 MPGe

Both the Spark and the 2.5 Roadster are rated at a 119 mpge average, so his last statement is not true, especially since the roadster is at least 5 year old technology. Typical GM BS.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Edit: More fun: Someone deleted the comment I quoted above.

Still there... maybe hit refresh???

 

[fengshui]

Still there... maybe hit refresh???

Now it's back. Probably some weird caching error.