Who agreed to participate in the Tesla Destination Program in order for free charging and installation services, allowing them to attract a specific set pf patrons to their establishment.
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Chevy Bolt at Supercharger
- Thread starter SSonnentag
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Who agreed to participate in the Tesla Destination Program in order for free charging and installation services, allowing them to attract a specific set pf patrons to their establishment.
All Teslas are EV's. All EV's are not Teslas.
If you pay for and offer your charging station to all EV's, then a Tesla is a subset of that group.
If you agree to participate in Teslas program to offer charging to their owners, then other EV's are not a part of that group.
As has already been discussed in the other thread(s) on this topic, it's pretty clear what Tesla's intent is. Just look at the signage in the very video that started this discussion. Or consider that Tesla had to make their newer wall connectors capable of disabling standard J1772 us for these types of installations, and the adapter folks had to specifically incorporate a defeat device in order to spoof the connector to help themselves.
And if you manage to forge a keycard to get in the premier United lounge at the airport, I assume you'll sneak in and eat as many snacks and beverages as you can?
Please show me a destination charging station agreement when it explicitly says the business receiving the stations is forbidden from letting non-Teslas use them. Thanks.
Not wrong. It's just a plug. Protocols is usually standard, although Tesla has the ability to use proprietary enhancements if they wish. Tesla decided (rightly in my opinion) to go for a single plug instead of J1772, and as such the equipment they offer has that plug. People can use an adapter, just as Tesla owners use a J1772 socket adapter and CHAdeMO adapter.
It's up to Tesla and the host to decide whether only Tesla cars get to use the chargers. Tesla pays for the charger but doesn't place any conditions on use.
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If something is offered to all with a standard plug, then there's reasonable expectation to interoperate with it.
Example: Charging kiosk at airport offers powered USB connectors, no problem using an adapter to the mircro USB on my Android phone. Or an iPhone with a cable that works with it's port
If something is not intended for all, and has a proprietary plug intended for its devices, then there is not reasonable expectation to interoperate with it.
Example: Apple pays for and offers complimentary kiosks at airports for it's customers with their proprietary port. Deciding to use that service installed by Apple with an adapter to instead charge your phone isn't what Apple intended, even if the clueless airport attendee doesn't know any better.
Tesla doesn't place restrictions on use. They could have made them entirely proprietary, but didn't. They could charge a license fee, but didn't. It's no different to Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter. CHAdeMO doesn't ban adapters, so Tesla's adapter is OK.
From that video:
There's other evidence of Tesla's intent already discussed: The new TWC's have been installed with J1772 capability disabled, oin order for only Teslas to charge there. The adapter maker had to modify it to spoof the proprietary protocol to game the system.
It's really your belief Tesla's intent is to offer this to any EV?
swaltner
Active Member
Just looked that one up on plugshare. Awesome.... but if that little clipper creek EVSE beside all those superchargers could speak, it'd be saying "Wait for me guys!!"
@Uncle Paul, I stand corrected from my post earlier in this thread that you were confusing Supercharger and Destination Charging locations. Interesting that they are putting regular J1772 stations both types of Tesla chargers. As others have said, these are likely required by the hosting site as part of the agreement to install the Supercharger site. Small monetary price to pay for the access to the land....
And can you guys take your conversation about plugging a non-Tesla into a Tesla HPC at a destination charger elsewhere? I don’t care to read you folks rehash this same off topic conversation over and over again in this thread as well. Thank you.
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It doesn't matter what Tesla's intent is. If they don't restrict it through any of the available legal avenues, then it's OK for a company to produce an adapter and for people to use it to charge there. Tesla doesn't pay for the electricity at their destination charging hosts, and doesn't set the rules. It's up to the _host_ to decide.
Since you mentioned them, it's worth noting that Apple is very restrictive, comes down hard with lawyers and demands license fees. Has Tesla done any of that to the adapter manufacturer?
And as long as that entitled attitude exists, there will be those that feel "getting over" on something is great.
seattlite2004
Active Member
I think there is a dip swith that will allow Tesla only charging: How to charge other EVs from tesla destination charger? • r/electricvehicles
If he obtained permission to use...he's good to go.
No verbiage regarding non Tesla use....suhhhhhweet:
Tesla is paying for the deployment of destination AC chargers that all EVs can use-
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People are not "getting over" on Tesla any more than Tesla owners who bought a CHAdeMO adapter and use chargers at Nissan dealerships are "getting over" on Nissan.
Tesla negotiates the terms of the provision of the charger with the host
Tesla owns the plug design
Tesla owns the socket design
Tesla owns its protocols
Tesla has multiple ways in which it could enforce Tesla-only charging at the destination chargers. It could have stopped the adapter sales dead, but it did not.
Also, Tesla does not pay for the electricity at destination chargers, so the use of the destination charger does not impose any additional cost on Tesla.
You aren't saying that you don't believe Tesla intends the destination charger program to be only for it's vehicles, you said, "It doesn't matter what Tesla's intent is.".
So, if somebody:
- believes something is not intended for them
- was never offered a way to interoperate with that device by the owner of the intellectual property
- has to forge a tool to gain physical access to that resource
- has to further utilize a method to get around the logical lockout on the device
- can directly observe signage that stipulates it's for a make/model they don't own
and helps themselves anyway... then yeah they are getting over... whatever rationalization they care to come up with.
We've covered this in the other thread. In some cases Nissan corporate has indeed told dealers to stop sharing the chargers. So it's certainly possible for the local "manager" (be it a dealership or a destination location) to not be clued in to what the intent of the provider is.
If anything, that reinforces the point that the intent of the provider matters.
I suspect that the fact the newer TWC's disallow J1772, and newer destination locations are set up that way is indeed an indicator that steps to protect the program have, and perhaps will be, implemented. Up to this point, it may not be worth it (effort or otherwise) to make much more if it at this point. Which, of course, doesn't automatically grant rights to it.
This was already covered in the other thread... just because Telsa has chosen not to make destination owners enforcers doesn't imply they want to subsidize every EV owner under the sun all the while the manufacturers of other EV's don't have to lift a finger.
Also notice the verbiage in that agreement: "...regarding Tesla charging...", "...if Tesla Customers are unable to charge..."
seattlite2004
Active Member
They are also providing clipper creek chargers along with the destination charges....but some proprietors chose to only install the Tesla branded EVSEs. I can be a Tesla customer by purchasing an MC and using it on a non Tesla EV....they do work well on the Leafs, Bolts, Sparks, etc...just need that adapter.
Anyway...the highlighted below provides the proprietor all the rights to the hardware...its really up to the proprietor and and not Tesla on how the hardware is used:
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