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Gerasimental
Member
Model S is 7.5cm wider than Mercedes S class, 5cm wider than A7, 3cm wider than Panamera.
Compared to a model class lower down, Model S is wider than its competitors by 18cm (MB E class), 10cm (BMW 5), 15cm(Jag XJ) respectively.
These are HUGE differences. Anybody in Europe would already consider even an S Class a monumentally large car. Size of the Model S is the only reason my parents have not bought one yet, as it would barely even fit in their garage (house from the 1920s) and would almost certainly be a huge hassle to drive around city roads.
Edit: They drive a KA, instead, lol.
SebastianR
Active Member
Yep, good point. There is no sugar coating the width of the car. The Model S wouldn't fit through neither my summer house gate nor into my yard - otherwise my Audi would be gone by now and I had a Model S instead. And when I look around in Copenhagen and see a car sticking out in the parking, it usually is a Model S. Then again, even with these limitations you can't take two steps here without tripping over a Model S.
So, sadly until Gen3 comes along, all I can own is TSLA, not Tesla.
Edit: And back to the topic of China: Did anyone ever consider that Tesla is not doing things "just to make money" but to change the way we do cars? Today, all German car makers make their money in China. So if Tesla succeeds in China, the Germans will make serious electric cars in no time. Likewise for the German market, albeit for a slightly different reason: the amount of petrol heads who are exceedingly proud of their Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche & VW (and then of course Bosch, Continental and the other invisible guys in the car industry) engineering is insane. If you want to change something in the car industry, you have to convince German engineers - the world is looking to what they are doing.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
Range Rover is bigger than the Model S in every exterior dimension and weight, even the short wheelbase version. Does not stop many in the UK or China from buying one, because they are extremely popular in both countries.
Range Rover
| Wheelbase | 2,922 mm (115.0 in)[SUP][1][/SUP] 3,122 mm (122.9 in) (Long wheelbase) |
|---|---|
| Length | 4,999 mm (196.8 in)[SUP][1][/SUP] 5,199 mm (204.7 in) (Long wheelbase) |
| Width | 2,073 mm (81.6 in) (mirrors folded)[SUP][1][/SUP] |
| Height | 1,835 mm (72.2 in)[SUP][1][/SUP] |
| Kerb weight | 2,160–2,360 kg (4,762–5,203 lb) |
| Wheelbase | 2,959 mm (116.5 in) |
|---|---|
| Length | 4,976 mm (195.9 in) |
| Width | 1,963 mm (77.3 in) |
| Height | 1,435 mm (56.5 in) |
| Curb weight | 2,108 kg (4,647.3 lb) |
I'll just post this here.
[FONT=&]It is reported that the inclusion of "catalog" of new energy vehicles must meet the following conditions: licensed in China sales of pure electric vehicles, plug-in (including by the program) hybrid vehicles, fuel cell vehicles; power battery not included Lead-acid batteries; pure electric mileage Chi continued to comply with the requirements; plug-in hybrid vehicle integrated fuel consumption (excluding electrical energy into fuel consumption) with the existing conventional fuel consumption compared to the national standard corresponding to the target value less than 60%; plug-in hybrid integrated fuel consumption of commercial vehicles (excluding electric energy into fuel consumption) with the existing national standards of conventional fuel consumption less than 60% compared to the corresponding limit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Announcement reads as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]To promote the strategic transformation of China's transport energy, promote the construction of ecological civilization, to support the development of new energy automotive industry, with the approval of the State Council, will now be exempt from the new energy automotive vehicle purchase tax announcement is as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]First, since September 1, 2014 to December 31, 2017, for the purchase of new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Second, to be exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles, by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, the State Administration of Taxation issued by "exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory" (hereinafter referred to as "directory") implementation and management.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](A) included in the "catalog" of new energy vehicles must meet the following conditions:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. Obtain license sales in China pure electric vehicles, plug-in (including by the program) hybrid vehicles, fuel cell vehicles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. Use the battery does not include lead-acid batteries.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. pure electric driving range to comply with the requirements of Annex 1.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The plug-in hybrid vehicle integrated fuel consumption (excluding electrical energy into fuel consumption) with the existing conventional fuel consumption compared to the national standard corresponding to the target value is less than 60%; plug-in hybrid commercial vehicles Integrated fuel consumption (excluding the electrical energy into a fuel consumption amount) with the existing national standard conventional fuel consumption less than 60% compared to the corresponding limits.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]5. Adoption of new energy vehicles, special testing, in line with the new energy automotive standards. The specific requirements of Annex 2.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](B) the car manufacturer or import car dealer (hereinafter referred to as enterprises) Submit "catalog" application report to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology. The specific requirements of Annex 3.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Enterprise application shall also comply with the following conditions:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. manufactured or imported in line with the inclusion of "directory" conditions of new energy vehicles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. The key components of new energy automotive battery, motor, electric control to provide not less than 5 years or 100,000 km (whichever comes first) warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. There is a strong after-sales service support capabilities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](C) the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and the State Administration of Taxation and other departments, to apply for a review of the material submitted by the enterprise; by reviewing the models included in the "Directory", by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, the State Administration of Taxation issued.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Since Day "catalog" release, the purchase included in the "catalog" of new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax; acquisition time for a unified motor vehicle sales invoice (or a valid certificate) on the date specified.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](Iv) the Ministry of Finance, State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and other departments will be timely organized "catalog" model special inspection. Responsible for the authenticity of the application materials and product quality. Inconsistent with the application materials for the product, the product does not meet the performance requirements, or provide false information to defraud others included in the "catalog" model qualified enterprises, to cancel the declaration of vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax policy qualifications, and be dealt with in accordance with the relevant regulations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](E) the Ministry of Finance, State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology will be based on our new energy automobile standard system development, technological advances and changes in models, timely revision, adjustment included in the "catalog" model conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Third, according to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, "catalog" OK vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax, the tax authorities pursuant to handle tax exemption.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](A) tax-free identification label.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology in the motor vehicle certificate of electronic information to add, "inclusion" are exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory "" field.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. The inclusion of "catalog" of new energy vehicles, vehicle motor vehicle when companies upload factory certification information in the "inclusion" are exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory "" field marked "yes", That tax-free identification.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology companies to upload the whole motor vehicle factory certificate of exemption identification information for review, and audit information is transmitted through to the State Administration of Taxation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](B) the tax authorities according to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology of the vehicle transmission of electronic information in the certificate of exemption identify, apply for tax exemption. [/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
Three ministries issued new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax implemented from September
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BEIJING, August 6, according to the Ministry of Finance website news, the Ministry of Finance, State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry recently issued "on the new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax notice", since September 1, 2014 to 2017 12 March 31, on the purchase of new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax.[/FONT]Three ministries issued new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax implemented from September
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]It is reported that the inclusion of "catalog" of new energy vehicles must meet the following conditions: licensed in China sales of pure electric vehicles, plug-in (including by the program) hybrid vehicles, fuel cell vehicles; power battery not included Lead-acid batteries; pure electric mileage Chi continued to comply with the requirements; plug-in hybrid vehicle integrated fuel consumption (excluding electrical energy into fuel consumption) with the existing conventional fuel consumption compared to the national standard corresponding to the target value less than 60%; plug-in hybrid integrated fuel consumption of commercial vehicles (excluding electric energy into fuel consumption) with the existing national standards of conventional fuel consumption less than 60% compared to the corresponding limit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Announcement reads as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Announcement on new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax[/FONT]
[FONT=&]First, since September 1, 2014 to December 31, 2017, for the purchase of new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Second, to be exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles, by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, the State Administration of Taxation issued by "exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory" (hereinafter referred to as "directory") implementation and management.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](A) included in the "catalog" of new energy vehicles must meet the following conditions:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. Obtain license sales in China pure electric vehicles, plug-in (including by the program) hybrid vehicles, fuel cell vehicles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. Use the battery does not include lead-acid batteries.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. pure electric driving range to comply with the requirements of Annex 1.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The plug-in hybrid vehicle integrated fuel consumption (excluding electrical energy into fuel consumption) with the existing conventional fuel consumption compared to the national standard corresponding to the target value is less than 60%; plug-in hybrid commercial vehicles Integrated fuel consumption (excluding the electrical energy into a fuel consumption amount) with the existing national standard conventional fuel consumption less than 60% compared to the corresponding limits.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]5. Adoption of new energy vehicles, special testing, in line with the new energy automotive standards. The specific requirements of Annex 2.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](B) the car manufacturer or import car dealer (hereinafter referred to as enterprises) Submit "catalog" application report to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology. The specific requirements of Annex 3.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Enterprise application shall also comply with the following conditions:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. manufactured or imported in line with the inclusion of "directory" conditions of new energy vehicles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. The key components of new energy automotive battery, motor, electric control to provide not less than 5 years or 100,000 km (whichever comes first) warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. There is a strong after-sales service support capabilities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](C) the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and the State Administration of Taxation and other departments, to apply for a review of the material submitted by the enterprise; by reviewing the models included in the "Directory", by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, the State Administration of Taxation issued.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Since Day "catalog" release, the purchase included in the "catalog" of new energy vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax; acquisition time for a unified motor vehicle sales invoice (or a valid certificate) on the date specified.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](Iv) the Ministry of Finance, State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and other departments will be timely organized "catalog" model special inspection. Responsible for the authenticity of the application materials and product quality. Inconsistent with the application materials for the product, the product does not meet the performance requirements, or provide false information to defraud others included in the "catalog" model qualified enterprises, to cancel the declaration of vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax policy qualifications, and be dealt with in accordance with the relevant regulations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](E) the Ministry of Finance, State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology will be based on our new energy automobile standard system development, technological advances and changes in models, timely revision, adjustment included in the "catalog" model conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Third, according to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, "catalog" OK vehicles exempt from vehicle purchase tax, the tax authorities pursuant to handle tax exemption.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](A) tax-free identification label.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1. The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology in the motor vehicle certificate of electronic information to add, "inclusion" are exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory "" field.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2. The inclusion of "catalog" of new energy vehicles, vehicle motor vehicle when companies upload factory certification information in the "inclusion" are exempt from vehicle purchase tax for new energy vehicles models directory "" field marked "yes", That tax-free identification.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3. The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology companies to upload the whole motor vehicle factory certificate of exemption identification information for review, and audit information is transmitted through to the State Administration of Taxation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&](B) the tax authorities according to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology of the vehicle transmission of electronic information in the certificate of exemption identify, apply for tax exemption. [/FONT]
Ministry of Finance, the State Administration of Taxation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology
[FONT=&][/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]August 1, 2014[/FONT]
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Elon's speech is between 4pm-5pm PDT. I think the highlights will be posted on Weibo shortly.
- - - Updated - - -
This is an old article. Once it happens, it'll have big impact, I guess SP will jump 10% immediately.
- - - Updated - - -
This is an old article. Once it happens, it'll have big impact, I guess SP will jump 10% immediately.
bluenation
Member
those are real lux cars, with a long lux record
the S is a lux-priced car, that falls so short.
you know how a lot of S fans are like, "well i love the simplicity of my interior!" Well, about that....
Tesla will most likely be making cars in china for china only. To be honest, when it comes to making the car, only 50% has to be made in China from what I understand. So Tesla will most likely make the car in China, but the batteries in Korea or Japan.
sundaymorning
Active Member
I have a LS460 and will take that over any Mercs, Bimmer or Jag interior. While my taste may be different than others, and the S interior may fall short of spectacular, but the S has attributes that makes up for what it lacks. Many buyers can careless about the interior storage and will take the S exterior, cargo space, seating for 7, regen braking, 17" display, lesser cost of maintenance, no gas rip offs, etc. over a lux interior like my Lexus or your perception of lux any day of the weak. So far in CA, the S has outsold any of the lux vehicles you've mentioned. Perhaps Mercs, Bimmers and Audis may want to up their lux game bc if Tesla does a simple change as adding new leather or storage cabin, you'll be running out of excuses. But you know how it is, lux drivers can always resort to "I love the smell of Carbon Monoxide in China every morning", right? It's easier to change leather than it is to turn an ICE into an EV.
bluenation
Member
an entire paragraph that goes completely off topic
my point was that the S simply doesnt offer competitive luxury interiors and features. Yet is priced as if it were.
nothin wrong with the S, so long as you're ok with all its pros. Which is not the case for Asians and Germans.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
an entire paragraph that goes completely off topic
my point was that the S simply doesnt offer competitive luxury interiors and features. Yet is priced as if it were.
nothin wrong with the S, so long as you're ok with all its pros. Which is not the case for Asians and Germans.
1) Tesla never claimed to be a luxury car company.
2) Tesla offers a superior alternative energy powertrain in lieu of those luxuries.
3) Tesla is closing the gap with the luxury cars with regards to interiors. Recaro seats, heated steering wheel, TAAC,air ionizers etc. I think the only significant feature lacking is vented seats. There will always be people asking for Swedish sourced Rolls Royce leather. Or some Maybach wood panels. Or some Audi stitching pattern. Or if/when Tesla does offer those simply insist the Europeans do it better. Others will insist Tesla should offer the S Class Discothèque Light interior package.
They did in China. Xiatong Zhu specifically stated that he wants the Model S to be defined as 'luxury, electric, four-door coupes'
Tesla Xiaotong Zhu, general manager of China interview (Xinhua, Feb 4)
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
And he goes on to redefine "luxury" according to Google translate.
[FONT=宋体] He said the first high-end luxury: high-end user identity embodied; pure electric: reflect on environmental protection and high-end users to embrace the concept of technological innovation, as well as environmental protection and help feeling responsible for the future; four: both business home; coupe: that both business home, and aim to meet the needs of those consumers have a higher performance.[/FONT]
bluenation
Member
1) and yet we have ppl wondering why the Chinese should choose an S class over an S? :biggrin: Should i remind ppl of the ginormous hissy fit TMC posters threw when Jon Liberman chose the former over the latter?
2. "superior" - define this word. As you know, there's more than one metric, aside from just torque at 0.
3. I agree: Tesla is playing catch up, from being "woefully behind" to "getting there, but not quite there yet." Its competitors? they're "there." And they aint standing still.
With the disappointing China and German results, Elon i think has finally got thru his head all these drawbacks. And is beginning to take measures to address them. Thank god he doesn't think like a TMC person, thinking the car's fine where it's at.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
If in fact Tesla is selling all they can produce, the car is "fine where it's at". No one ever suggested or expected that the car would not get better over time. Every car is a compromise, including the cars you seem to think are "better". Clearly all the people who bought an S do not think those other cars are superior over all.
bluenation
Member
it's so fine that he fired a third of the staff & sent a private memo to execs expressing his disappointment?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
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