Climate Change Denial

[SummerlinChiro]

Anybody can see that temperature and oceans are rising.

Which database do you think offers conclusive proof that temperatures are rising?

Oceans have been rising for what, 20,000 years? What data do you have that "anybody can see" that man is affecting the ocean rise in any way, shape, or form?

 

[mspohr]

Which database do you think offers conclusive proof that temperatures are rising?

Oceans have been rising for what, 20,000 years? What data do you have that "anybody can see" that man is affecting the ocean rise in any way, shape, or form?

Google it!
I'm not your research assistant.

 

[nwdiver]

Which database do you think offers conclusive proof that temperatures are rising?

Oceans have been rising for what, 20,000 years? What data do you have that "anybody can see" that man is affecting the ocean rise in any way, shape, or form?

Physics. Water expands when it warms. Our pathetic addiction to fools fuel is causing radiative forcing via higher CO2 concentrations that is adding 1.5w/m^2.

(1.5w/m^2)(510.1M km^2 'Earths surface area') = 765TW
(765TWh)(24hrs/day)(365days/yr) = 6701400TWh/yr
6.7E18wh/yr => 2.4E22 J/yr

The radiative forcing of increasing CO2 by ~40% that has been verified hundreds of times over the past century globally is ~2.4E22J/yr. 3000 ocean floats (Argo network) has measured an increase in ocean heat content of ~1E22J/yr. You seriously think that's just a coincidence? All of humanity uses <6E20J/yr so that's... that's a lot of energy. Energy isn't magic. Where's it coming from if not radiative forcing due to CO2?

We are talking climate, not microwave ovens

How does something cooler heat up something warmer?

Microwaves and Climate Change are both about radiation making things warmer with something that is cooler.

So.... how DO microwaves work?

 

[SummerlinChiro]

adding more CO2 can't help and might hurt.

More CO2 means more plant food, more greening, more food production, more drought resistant plants.

CO2 DOES help!

 

[nwdiver]

CO2 DOES help!

Plants did just fine with CO2 levels at 280ppm. Whatever benefit they may enjoy from CO2 at >400ppm is more than washed away by increased floods (since the amount of water vapor the atmosphere can hold increases exponentially with temperature), increased droughts (since the amount of water vapor the atmosphere can suck out of soil increases exponentially with temperature), harder freezes (since the jet stream occasionally dips further south when there's a smaller difference in temperature between the polar regions and equator), and salt water intrusion as sea rise.

How do microwaves work?

 

[mspohr]

More CO2 means more plant food, more greening, more food production, more drought resistant plants.

CO2 DOES help!View attachment 631592 View attachment 631593 View attachment 631595

This is why this thread has great amusement value. It gives a venue for tired old dis-proven theories to be trotted out again and we can all laugh at the ignorance.

 

[nwdiver]

This is why this thread has great amusement value. It gives a venue for tired old dis-proven theories to be trotted out again and we can all laugh at the ignorance.

And some new ones. Like somehow radiation can't heat things up. That one... that one was new.

We are talking climate, not microwave ovens

How does something cooler heat up something warmer?

How do microwaves work?

 

[mspohr]

And some new ones. Like somehow radiation can't heat things up. That one... that one was new.

Good catch.
Science illiteracy has no bounds.

 

[SummerlinChiro]

Google it!
I'm not your research assistant.

You made the assertion that "Anyone can see that temperatures and oceans are rising"

The burden of proof is on you.

BTW, Google stopped being a neutral search engine about ten years ago, so google search results are now massively biased.

You are a classic climate cultist.

You assert that manmade climate change is obvious, but you don't have any actual knowledge whether that is true or not - you let the authorities tell you what to think.

You are running on emotion rather than reason.

I started studying the matter as a true believer, and looking at the the temperature databases is what turned me into a sceptic.

 

[SummerlinChiro]

Good catch.
Science illiteracy has no bounds.

I never said radiation doesn't heat things up... Stop putting words into my mouth.

What I said was, cold bodies never increase the temperature of warmer bodies.

Which is still true...

 

[nwdiver]

I never said radiation doesn't heat things up... Stop putting words into my mouth.

What I said was, cold bodies never increase the temperature of warmer bodies.

That... that's how cold bodies can increase the temperature of warmer bodies..... with.... with radiation. How do microwaves work?

Humans may only be responsible for 3% of the CO2 cycling in the carbon cycle but we're 100% responsible for the increase. If you have a train platform with 100 people/hr arriving and 100 people/hr leaving then a door opens and 3 additional people arrive/hr the platform is going to start getting crowded. Was opening the door 3% of the problem or 100% of the crowding problem?

OR... if you have a spa with a 100gpm filter and start adding 3gpm the spa will overflow. Is the additional 3gpm 3% of the reason you have a mess or 100% of the reason?

How do microwaves work?

 

[mspohr]

You made the assertion that "Anyone can see that temperatures and oceans are rising"

The burden of proof is on you.

BTW, Google stopped being a neutral search engine about ten years ago, so google search results are now massively biased.

You are a classic climate cultist.

You assert that manmade climate change is obvious, but you don't have any actual knowledge whether that is true or not - you let the authorities tell you what to think.

You are running on emotion rather than reason.

I started studying the matter as a true believer, and looking at the the temperature databases is what turned me into a sceptic.

View attachment 631606 View attachment 631607 View attachment 631608

Thank you.
You've proven my point.

 

[drtimhill]

Yes, there certainly appears to be a correlation

if you look at the graph posted, the red temperature line consistently rises BEFORE the blue CO2 line.

Goalposts, goalpost, goalposts.

First, you deny there is a correlation. Then you are shown there is a correlation. Then you start claiming there is no causation. You are wasting everyones time, since nothing you have said in this entire thread forms any coherent scientific argument. The evidence is against you, so out with the evidence! The theory is against you, so make up pseudo-science theories of your own!

But, at the end of the day, you are committing the basic sin of denialists everywhere .. you have decided what you want the outcome to be, and will use any biased, dubious or fallacious argument to cling to your wish (because that's all it is .. a wish).

Many posters here, myself included, have presented cogent, reasoned positions, backed by clear hard facts and theories. Go read them again (including the ones you reflexively marked "disagree") .. think about them. Try asking yourself these hard questions: "What if I am wrong? Are they right? Is there really global warming?" What would the outcome be if your answer to any of these was "yes"?

 

[nwdiver]

You made the assertion that "Anyone can see that temperatures and oceans are rising"

The burden of proof is on you.

BTW, Google stopped being a neutral search engine about ten years ago, so google search results are now massively biased.

You are a classic climate cultist.

You assert that manmade climate change is obvious, but you don't have any actual knowledge whether that is true or not - you let the authorities tell you what to think.

You are running on emotion rather than reason.

I started studying the matter as a true believer, and looking at the the temperature databases is what turned me into a sceptic.

View attachment 631606 View attachment 631607 View attachment 631608

You're the only one here suggesting we 'just believe' and 'not ask questions'.

Here are some questions you should answer.

1. What is the radiative forcing of CO2?
2. How much has CO2 increased since our pathetic addiction to fools fuel started?
3. How much fools fuel would we have to burn to cause this rise?
4. How much would the Earth warm given the radiative forcing of CO2 (climate sensitively) and the increase in CO2 we've observed?

These questioned have been researched and answered independently and given the same answer.... that generally means the answers are correct.

Also.... how do microwaves work?

 

[drtimhill]

I never said radiation doesn't heat things up... Stop putting words into my mouth.

What I said was, cold bodies never increase the temperature of warmer bodies.

Which is still true...

At no time does any part of an operating microwave oven reach 100C. Yet microwave ovens can boil water. Explain.

(Clue: There is a part of the microwave oven that is over 100C, but its not what you think.)

 

[mspohr]

At no time does any part of an operating microwave oven reach 100C. Yet microwave ovens can boil water. Explain.

(Clue: There is a part of the microwave oven that is over 100C, but its not what you think.)

I have an induction cooktop. It never gets very hot but the pans on it can get hot enough to cook food.
How does that work

 

[drtimhill]

I have an induction cooktop. It never gets very hot but the pans on it can get hot enough to cook food.
How does that work

omg .. it's a miracle!!!

 

[nwdiver]

omg .. it's a miracle!!!

 

[SummerlinChiro]

Groupthink

On Wokeness and Other Obstacles to Clear Thinking

 

[nwdiver]

Groupthink

On Wokeness and Other Obstacles to Clear Thinking

Yes or no; For the Earth to be neither cooling or warming energy in must equal energy out.