Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[Raffy.Roma]

@montgom626

If you think that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is not the main issue for what is concerning Climate Change/Global Warming please report it in this thread. We will be happy to answer to you in a very kind and open way. Believe me nobody here would be biased against you if you reported your scientific argument in support of your thesis.
I always tried to address this thread in a very scientific and technical way and it when it comes to scientific arguments nobody has a dogmatic behaviour IMO.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

If things go how they generally do, 20 more years of total access to the entire content of human knowledge should(one would hope) make this argument moot, but by then it will be too late to do anything substantive. The potential sad irony of The Information Age. We shall see.

 

[tigerade]

If things go how they generally do, 20 more years of total access to the entire content of human knowledge should(one would hope) make this argument moot, but by then it will be too late to do anything substantive. The potential sad irony of The Information Age. We shall see.

Defeating unnecessary, willful ignorance has to be a priority for our species and will likely be necessary for survival. However, ignorance is not an easy foe, it has many who enthusiastically fight for its cause.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Defeating unnecessary, willful ignorance has to be a priority for our species and will likely be necessary for survival. However, ignorance is not an easy foe, it has many who enthusiastically fight for it's cause.

<coughs slightly>
for its cause.

 

[tigerade]

now back on topic - Secretive Group Calls for on EPA (Op-Ed) - Yahoo News

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a clandestine network of corporations and conservative state lawmakers, had its annual "policy summit" last week in Washington, D.C. The group held a special session to discuss upcoming U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) carbon-pollution standards for power plants. According to reports, ALEC members and industry lawyers encouraged state legislators to limit their states' cooperation with EPA, and even to engage in "guerrilla warfare" to weaken the agency's ability to reduce carbon pollution.

Considering ALEC is an organization for elected officials, these closed-door sessions — with industries that contribute much of the nation's pollution — are troubling. If corporations lobby elected state officials to obstruct health and safety protections that affect the public, citizens should know which corporations are talking with their representatives and why.
InsideEPA gained access to parts of the meeting, including the special ALEC workshop on EPA power-plant standards. Peter Glaser, a Washington, D.C., lawyer representing electric utilities, coal producers and other large, corporate energy clients, encouraged state lawmakers and industry members to engage in "guerrilla warfare" against EPA to weaken carbon-pollution standards on power plants.

 

[montgom626]

Cows overlooked

A reduction in gases other than carbon dioxide will be needed to abate climate change, according to researchers. Methane, pound-for-pound, traps more heat than CO2, Oregon State University said.

Cows’ Role in Global Warming Seen Overlooked in Climate Talks - Bloomberg

 

[Raffy.Roma]

A reduction in gases other than carbon dioxide will be needed to abate climate change, according to researchers. Methane, pound-for-pound, traps more heat than CO2, Oregon State University said.

Cows’ Role in Global Warming Seen Overlooked in Climate Talks - Bloomberg

I agree that methane, being a Green House Gas, should be reduced. But in the article that you are mentioning no evidence is reported in support of the fact that methane traps more heat than CO2. It's simply stated.
Then I would like to point out that CO2 is responsible not only of the Global Warming issue but also of the Ocean Acidification issue which is a very important item. To this concern please see posts #817 and #819 of this thread.

 

[JRP3]

And as we've previously discussed methane only lasts about 10 years in the atmosphere while CO2 lasts about 100.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

And as we've previously discussed methane only lasts about 10 years in the atmosphere while CO2 lasts about 100.

Agree 100% again.

 

[brianman]

Some people seem to have a negative knee jerk reaction to anything suggesting sustainability, and they assume it's just going to cost them money or somehow make their life less pleasant, even if the opposite is true.

"Hard sell" triggers the "what's the catch" gut reaction.

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the apostrophe was meant for possession - ignorance's cause.

I can see Robert shaking his head from here.

 

[Kaivball]

http://o.dailycaller.com/all/2013-12-20-the-top-seven-global-warming-alarmist-setbacks-in-2013

The hits keep on coming...

 

[JRP3]

The only possible informative part in that piece was that low sunspot activity may be causing cooler temperatures. What that means is it's somewhat mitigating the effects of global warming, and therefore when sunspot activity picks back up again temperatures could shoot up drastically. Since we seem to be in a time of unusually low sunspot activity outside of the normal cycle we have no way of knowing when that may happen. Could be next year, could be ten or more years from now, we won't know until it happens. The fact that the earth was warmer in the past is irrelevant, record snowfalls could be the result of global warming, Arctic sea ice may be up slightly this year but still down from historical levels, the deep ocean is warming, and Dr. Pielke's doctorate is in political science, not climate.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

And as always, everything you post Kaivball conveniently leaves out that the global sea-level has started to rise:

:: Sea-level Rise :: CSIRO ACECRC ::

Scroll down to the second part of that page. It’s up ~23 cm / 9 inches so far in the last 130 years!


So pretty please, and one more time since hope springs eternal:

Look at that graph.

Where do you think that sea-level is going?


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And if anyone wants to go and debunk all those seven misleading talking points Kaivball just posted a link to, then as always, that is easily done by using this often linked online resource, where REAL climate scientists present REAL science:

skepticalscience.com | Arguments from Global Warming Skeptics and what the science really says - Global Warming & Climate Change Myths

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@Kaivball

Apart from the fact that I disagree with the article that you linked I would like to invite you to read posts #817 and #819 of this thread about the issue of Ocean Acidification caused by the high levels of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.
In fact Global Warming is only one of the issues related to CO2, then there is the Ocean Acidification issue which is very important and causing many damages to the Earth.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Capturing CO2 from air is possible:

http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/01/carbon_seq/7b1.pdf

Could this be a method to reduce CO2 concentration from the atmosphere? (always making efforts to reduce CO2 emissions of course)
What do you think about the linked article?

 

[JRP3]

Doesn't seem practical to me but I didn't do an in depth analysis.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Doesn't seem practical to me but I didn't do an in depth analysis.

Ok maybe that this is just an idea to be considered and better studied. Actually IMO we are forced to parallel the efforts to reduce CO2 emissions with ways to capture CO2 from the atmosphere not only for the Global Warming issue but also for the Ocean Acidification issue.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Another idea to remove CO2 from the atmosphere. This idea looks better than the previous one (post #895).

Small-scale U.S. lab experiment removes CO2 from atmosphere at relatively low cost

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059981902

 

[tigerade]

Conservative groups spend up to $1bn a year to fight action on climate change | Environment | theguardian.com

Conservative groups may have spent up to $1bn a year on the effort to deny science and oppose action on climate change, according to the first extensive study into the anatomy of the anti-climate effort.

“I call it the climate-change counter movement,” said the author of the study, Drexel University sociologist Robert Brulle. “It is not just a couple of rogue individuals doing this. This is a large-scale political effort.”

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Conservative groups spend up to $1bn a year to fight action on climate change | Environment | theguardian.com

IMO they will get the opposite result because people will realize what is the truth. It's just a matter of time.