Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[mspohr]

462 pages and counting! Granted it's been a long time since this thread was started in 2013 but still we have a problem without a solution. Not a lot of consensus. No all encompassing plan. The discussion is, at least, an informative learning experience for all involved but we are, for the most part, preaching to the choir in that we have already made at least one major decision toward attacking global warming in that we chose to purchase EVs. Each of us needs to do everything we can on a personal level, lead by example. Recycle, reuse, reduce is a good place to start. Live a life that makes a statement to everyone you come in contact with that makes it clear where you stand. Provide your own reuseable grocery bags. Don't accept a bag for just a couple items. Keep your thermostat low in the winter and wear extra clothes inside. Combine several stops when shopping instead of making one trip for each store. Vote with climate change in mind. The list is long.
On an individual basis there are limited actions available but it is a good place to start. One person recycling hardly makes a dent but millions making environmentally positive decisions can change our world. We have a large audience just on this site, why not use it to encourage our "choir" to do all of the little things and not be shy about it? Just a thought.

I agree that we should do everything we can individually to reduce climate change and most of us already are doing a lot.
However, individual efforts are just a band aid without strong government support. You complain that there is no all encompassing plan. That is the role of government and unfortunately in most of the world government has been corrupted by the fossil fuel industry so all we get is weak tea.
The problem is lack of government plan and action. I don't know how to fix that since government corruption by corporate interests is so pervasive.

 

[RichardC]

Hi Richard! Happy to see you again on TMC! WELCOME BACK ON TMC!

Thanks Raffy, it's great that you are still contributing and fighting the good fight! Well done.

I have a couple of suggestions for books for those looking for current and future solutions:

The Ministry for the Future A novel by: Kim Stanley Robinson​

https://www.audible.ca/pd/The-Ministry-for-the-Future-Audiobook/B08K2HDD77?​

Driving to Net 0: Stories of Hope for a Carbon Free Future [Print Replica] Kindle Edition​

by: David Hrivnak https://www.amazon.ca/Driving-Net-Stories-Carbon-Future/dp/0692143831

The first looks ahead to quasi-utopian solutions after disasters in the decades ahead but is quite thought provoking.

The second provides some real world examples of families currently enjoying net zero lifestyles in the US and Canada.

Both are available in electronic forms.

Enjoy.

 

[Beasts]

I agree that we should do everything we can individually to reduce climate change and most of us already are doing a lot.
However, individual efforts are just a band aid without strong government support. You complain that there is no all encompassing plan. That is the role of government and unfortunately in most of the world government has been corrupted by the fossil fuel industry so all we get is weak tea.
The problem is lack of government plan and action. I don't know how to fix that since government corruption by corporate interests is so pervasive.

I think you have made my point. Governments hold the power so somehow we have to convince them to act. We have to join Greta and others and do our best to make a difference. Keep talking. Find every way you can to influence other people, one at a time if necessary. It may seem useless but, by your own admission, what other choice do we have? If not us, who? If not now, when? A democracy is only strong when its' supporters insist on being heard. Help spread science and truth. Stand up to those who find ways to encourage the arguments standing in the way of renewable energy. Buy only products made to last. All of us need to grow this fight bit by bit if necessary or the loss will be greater, I think, than any of us can imagine. The statistics quoted in this thread are being magnified as time passes and our reactions are not keeping up. I hope to be able to say that I did my best in the successful fight to save earth's environment for our children.
I did not want to sound preachy but I am a biologist so I feel I understand the magnitude of the changes that are taking place better than many. Everything I read in publications which I have trusted for years supports the same conclusions from observations of global weather, ocean health, glacier melting, deforestation, chemical pollution and on and on.

 

[Merrill]

I totally agree everyone says I cannot do anything but if everyone did their small part guess what it becomes a big part.

 

[voyager]

Here is another 'comforting' thought:

"It is not only the fracturing and breakup of ice that is worrying scientists, but the warming of ocean temperatures, which is melting the ice shelf from below."

Crucial Antarctic Glacier Likely to Collapse Much Earlier than Expected

Thwaites Glacier, dubbed Antarctica’s ‘doomsday glacier,’ has been predicted to undergo dramatic changes, with its ice shelf likely to break apart in as little as five years.

news.climate.columbia.edu

 

[voyager]

When we are discussing personal mobility and car travel, people don't seem to realize that the EV is to become the biggest electrical appliance in any household that's gonna feed off the grid, which is already stressed to the limit because of more airco's as a result of rising temperatures...

 

[mspohr]

China has pledged that CO2 will peak in 2030, a crucial inflection point on the road to net-zero emissions by 2060. But the world biggest energy consumer could actually see emissions top out at around 11 billion tons in 2028, Guo Jiaofeng, a senior advisor at the Development Research Center of the State Council, said in an online seminar on Wednesday.

Peak Carbon in China Could Come Two Years Earlier Than Planned

Carbon emissions in China could peak two years earlier than planned as the economy slows and Beijing prioritizes renewable energy, according to a leading government think tank.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[mspohr]

When we are discussing personal mobility and car travel, people don't seem to realize that the EV is to become the biggest electrical appliance in any household that's gonna feed off the grid, which is already stressed to the limit because of more airco's as a result of rising temperatures...

There are numerous studies that have examined this issue and repeatedly found that the grid is fully capable of supporting full EV adoption.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Here is another 'comforting' thought:

"It is not only the fracturing and breakup of ice that is worrying scientists, but the warming of ocean temperatures, which is melting the ice shelf from below."

Crucial Antarctic Glacier Likely to Collapse Much Earlier than Expected

Thwaites Glacier, dubbed Antarctica’s ‘doomsday glacier,’ has been predicted to undergo dramatic changes, with its ice shelf likely to break apart in as little as five years.

news.climate.columbia.edu

That's why the AGW issue is REALLY DANGEROUS!
When too much ice will melt the salt concentration of the Oceans will decrease and the Gulf Stream will get blocked. AND WE WILL HAVE A NEW ICE AGE!

 

[JRP3]

When we are discussing personal mobility and car travel, people don't seem to realize that the EV is to become the biggest electrical appliance in any household that's gonna feed off the grid, which is already stressed to the limit because of more airco's as a result of rising temperatures...

Most will charge overnight at moderate rates. Not a real issue for most modern grids.

 

[patmurphey]

Most will charge overnight at moderate rates. Not a real issue for most modern grids.

Overnight helps, but the charging rates are not exactly moderate loads for a typical home. A NEMA 14-50 outlet charging at 40 amps is a 9600 watt continuous load for hours, almost nothing in a home compares. Neighborhood transformers are not rated for adding many of those loads at once. However, the rate of manufacture of EVs except for Tesla is slow today, and any projected ramp up will leave plenty of time for the grid and neighborhood infrastructure to catch up with any demand.

 

[mspohr]

Overnight helps, but the charging rates are not exactly moderate loads for a typical home. A NEMA 14-50 outlet charging at 40 amps is a 9600 watt continuous load for hours, almost nothing in a home compares. Neighborhood transformers are not rated for adding many of those loads at once. However, the rate of manufacture of EVs except for Tesla is slow today, and any projected ramp up will leave plenty of time for the grid and neighborhood infrastructure to catch up with any demand.

My local transformer is 25 kW and serves 7 houses with 3 EVs. No problem.
Eventually they'll need to upgrade the transformer but fine for now.

 

[eevee-fan]

Overnight helps, but the charging rates are not exactly moderate loads for a typical home. A NEMA 14-50 outlet charging at 40 amps is a 9600 watt continuous load for hours, almost nothing in a home compares. Neighborhood transformers are not rated for adding many of those loads at once. However, the rate of manufacture of EVs except for Tesla is slow today, and any projected ramp up will leave plenty of time for the grid and neighborhood infrastructure to catch up with any demand.

Yeah, people need to set their EVSE to a lower level so that it charges all night. 40A is probably too much for most as the average daily commute it only 40 miles... 16A is probably adequate for most.

 

[iPlug]

With evolving demand management, many homes with solar PV will charge during the mid-morning to mid-afternoon essentially self-consuming their solar PV and never increasing their neighborhood transformer capacity utilization. Some already do.

Where there are areas of growing home batteries, transformer/grid strain is already decreasing.

 

[ggies07]

With evolving demand management, many homes with solar PV will charge during the mid-morning to mid-afternoon essentially self-consuming their solar PV and never increasing their neighborhood transformer capacity utilization. Some already do.

Where there are areas of growing home batteries, transformer/grid strain is already decreasing.

And I already schedule my charging from 12-3 (free for me. Ie. Your demand management) in the morning when there is the most wind being added to the grid.

 

[JRP3]

many homes with solar PV will charge during the mid-morning to mid-afternoon essentially self-consuming their solar PV

Only if they don't drive to work or run errands during the day, which is not most people.

 

[iPlug]

With evolving demand management, many homes with solar PV will charge during the mid-morning to mid-afternoon essentially self-consuming their solar PV and never increasing their neighborhood transformer capacity utilization. Some already do.

Where there are areas of growing home batteries, transformer/grid strain is already decreasing.

Only if they don't drive to work or run errands during the day, which is not most people.

It's a whole lot of people, and could possibly become most.

Have encountered only a few people who, for a few years of their lives, worked all days a week away from home, but none of them only during the day. Looking at our population, the very large majority of the working population have at least 2 days a week off. Then there are retirees, students, etc.

We count ourselves among the many these days who work atypical schedules (many nights, evenings, weekends). Thanks to the acceleration of COVID, a very large percent work from home now and this trend continues.

Building on this, most EVs will not have to be charged every 1-2 days. Yes, there are exceptions to all these things, but the idea is that the average burden placed on neighborhood transformers and the grid in general is much less than at first glance.

 

[nwdiver]

Overnight helps, but the charging rates are not exactly moderate loads for a typical home. A NEMA 14-50 outlet charging at 40 amps is a 9600 watt continuous load for hours, almost nothing in a home compares. Neighborhood transformers are not rated for adding many of those loads at once. However, the rate of manufacture of EVs except for Tesla is slow today, and any projected ramp up will leave plenty of time for the grid and neighborhood infrastructure to catch up with any demand.

1. A lot compares. My house in Bremerton had a 20kW furnace before I replaced it with a heat pump. Most electric tankless heaters are ~20kW.
2. Most people on average need ~10kWh/day to drive ~40 miles. That can be divided up over a ~14 hour period at the discretion of the grid. ~700w for 14 hours or ~10kW from 1-2am when there's ~no load. It's not an issue.

 

[ElectricIAC]

1. A lot compares. My house in Bremerton had a 20kW furnace before I replaced it with a heat pump. Most electric tankless heaters are ~20kW.
2. Most people on average need ~10kWh/day to drive ~40 miles. That can be divided up over a ~14 hour period at the discretion of the grid. ~700w for 14 hours or ~10kW from 1-2am when there's ~no load. It's not an issue.

That’s assuming 225wh/mi including phantom drain after you factor charger losses on at least a 32A 240 connection.

What Tesla do YOU know that‘s that efficient on a multi trip 40mi day?

 

[iPlug]

Currently, the biggest energy and peak/continuous power consuming appliances in most U.S. homes is AC. Many homes have units that are 10-20 years old that will need to be replaced soon, most hopefully with air-sourced heat pumps.

The lowest SEER options back 10-20 years ago are no longer available so energy/power strain on neighborhood transformers gets reduced significantly by these replacement upgrades alone.