Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[SilverString]

Labeling spending on clean energy investment as "pork belly" is not useful. The US spends far more on fossil fuel subsidies but that doesn't seem to trigger people.
As for unions, some people here have a deep seated fear of unions which is sad because the decline of unions has been part of the greatest decline in income equality since the gilded age. Unions give workers some power to gain better wages and working conditions against corporations. We need a strong middle class, not a nation of wage slaves.

Well pork-belly refers to items unrelated to the bill - I support your stance on fossil fuels so does that mean I must support Unions too? I do not think that is the purpose of your post. There are many reasons to fear union involvement that are well documented. Are you suggesting all employees of Toyota and Tesla are "wage slaves"? The whole pro or anti union stance is a different issue, and one on which many may never agree. So is this bill now about Unions? or Global warming and clean air? Either way my point is to put the bill forward for its intended purposes and keep the special interests out to get it passed.

 

[mspohr]

Well pork-belly refers to items unrelated to the bill - I support your stance on fossil fuels so does that mean I must support Unions too? I do not think that is the purpose of your post. There are many reasons to fear union involvement that are well documented. Are you suggesting all employees of Toyota and Tesla are "wage slaves"? The whole pro or anti union stance is a different issue, and one on which many may never agree. So is this bill now about Unions? or Global warming and clean air? Either way my point is to put the bill forward for its intended purposes and keep the special interests out to get it passed.

What are the "unrelated items"?
What are the "union pork belly fat" items?
What about the fossil fuel "special interests" delaying/watering down the bill?
There are too many Americans who are wage slaves. They need union representation against corporate interests. It's about Building Back Better.

 

[SilverString]

What are the "unrelated items"?
What are the "union pork belly fat" items?
What about the fossil fuel "special interests" delaying/watering down the bill?
There are too many Americans who are wage slaves. They need union representation against corporate interests. It's about Building Back Better.

You tell me...? You have written an eloquent post which I mostly agree with, but you bring your personal politics (especially with your last very subjective statement), and done exactly what congress did which killed the bill. I am done here. Nice post in general.

 

[patmurphey]

...As for unions, some people here have a deep seated fear of unions which is sad because the decline of unions has been part of the greatest decline in income equality since the gilded age. Unions give workers some power to gain better wages and working conditions against corporations. We need a strong middle class, not a nation of wage slaves.

Note non-union Tesla pays substantially higher wages and benefits than the UAW OEMs. Inflexible UAW had a lot to do with their jobs going overseas. I was a union official most of my airline pilot career, non-union Delta always had the highest pay. The biggest union problem has been inflexible work rules, we were guilty of it, too until we had to work with the company to save it from closing after Carl Icahn turned up.

 

[juliusa]

The whole pro or anti union stance is a different issue, and one on which many may never agree.

Why should anyone be pro and anti union - and especially why should the government? It should simply be up to the employees. The only position I take is right to work.

 

[mspohr]

Note non-union Tesla pays substantially higher wages and benefits than the UAW OEMs. Inflexible UAW had a lot to do with their jobs going overseas. I was a union official most of my airline pilot career, non-union Delta always had the highest pay. The biggest union problem has been inflexible work rules, we were guilty of it, too until we had to work with the company to save it from closing after Carl Icahn turned up.

Yes, we all know that Tesla (and you) are special.

 

[Beasts]

I've always thought of unions as a mechanism to place labor on a more equal footing with management. A way for employees to have a voice in the way they are treated. Considering the compensation imbalance between labor and management something needs to be done. I do think that there has to be an incentive for people to make the extra effort required to obtain an education and actively compete for management positions, but the differences between hourly and salaried employees are much too massive to insist that blue collar workers shouldn't be allowed to choose a union to represent them.
An interesting solution, in part, is being used by the Japanese who have worker representation on management decision making teams. (My memory and interpretation.) CEOs who feel any guilt at all earning a hundred times or more the average wage of their hourly employees are few and far between.

 

[mspohr]

Documents Show How Polluting Industries Mobilized to Block Climate Action

Since its inception, the IPCC itself has been the target of corporate obstructionism, new research shows.

theintercept.com

 

[mspohr]

How much energy powers a good life? Less than you're using, says a new report

Americans use nearly four times the energy researchers say is needed to live a happy, healthy and prosperous life.

www.npr.org

Comparing energy use and quality of life across 140 countries, researchers found that the magic number is 75 gigajoules a year, or less. For context, one gigajoule of energy is equal to about 8 gallons of gasoline.

Americans use 284 gigajoules a year per capita, nearly four times that much energy, according to the new research.

Many approaches require a blend of the two: to incentivize people and businesses to make an upfront investment in equipment or technology that uses less energy over time, said Ladislaw. She is hopeful that the $1.2 trillion Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act — which includes several provisions focused on reducing consumption, increasing efficiency and expanding access to renewable energy sources — will do that.

 

[mspohr]

Fossil fuels v our future: young Montanans wage historic climate fight

Their case, Held v State of Montana, argues that state lawmakers have prioritized the business interests of the fossil fuel industry over their future. When their case is heard next February, it will be the first in a wave of youth-led climate lawsuits to successfully go to trial. Experts say a decision in favor of the 16 youth plaintiffs could have sweeping implications across the country, setting guard rails for how politicians are able to protect the interests of extractive corporations.

The 16 young people, who were between the ages of two and 18 when they filed the lawsuit in March 2020, have already felt the impacts of climate change, from dangerous air quality brought by wildfires to the extreme drought that jeopardizes some of their family-owned cattle ranches. As these environmental consequences mount, young people have emerged as a leading force in the climate activism movement.

With six coalmines and four private coal plants, Montana is the sixth-largest coal producer in the US. It also has four petroleum refineries and is one of the largest consumers of oil and gas in the United States. Since 2003, Montana has received nearly $650m in disbursements from oil and gas extraction on mostly public lands, making it the eighth highest total in the country.

 

[mspohr]

Climate change
Climate change has been the central topic of Chomsky’s most recent works, in which he writes about the inextricable tie between global warming and capitalism. He has deemed Earth as unsalvageable within the “time scale” that capitalist countries such as the U.S. have made for it, even with the establishment of policies committed to decreasing carbon output. “There is no one other than Donald Trump –in history– who has done more to try to drive the human race to extinction,” said Chomsky, who added that “nothing else mattered” if the future was destroyed. He listed Trump’s policies focusing on “maximizing fossil fuels” and “cutting back” regulations that addressed climate change. Chomsky also likened “Trump’s fanaticism” to Hitler’s Nazis rallies, describing, in particular, the strong base of Republicans against addressing climate change as “a truly dangerous insurgency.” He described the party’s disregard of global warming as “a death warrant” for humankind.

 

[UncaNed]

My idea is to create large desalination plants on the coasts and pump water into large manmade reservoirs in the mountains as both a seasonal storage and national irrigation system. A “water grid”.

How about finding a passive or semi-passive way to collect condensation (saves reverse-osmosis energy) on a huge scale at those high altitude reservoirs (no pumping energy needed!), or at least partway up those large reservoirs (less pumping energy), possibly on the upwind side of mountains where adiabatic cooling already aids condensation or something?

And I trust we're gonna put floating PV solar on those mountaintop reservoirs to lower evaporation rates and generate some power in that clear mountain air for the pumps there too, right?

 

[patmurphey]

How about finding a passive or semi-passive way to collect condensation (saves reverse-osmosis energy) on a huge scale at those high altitude reservoirs (no pumping energy needed!), or at least partway up those large reservoirs (less pumping energy), possibly on the upwind side of mountains where adiabatic cooling already aids condensation or something?

And I trust we're gonna put floating PV solar on those mountaintop reservoirs to lower evaporation rates and generate some power in that clear mountain air for the pumps there too, right?

You do know that mountains tend to be in earthquake country? California abandoned most of the dams/reservoirs in the Sierra foothills because of earthquake threats. Nice idea. but another "eco" group will shut it down, sort of like the groups trying to shut down EV production in Germany.

 

[mspohr]

I went on TV to explain Just Stop Oil – and it became a parody of Don’t Look Up | Miranda Whelehan

People were quick to point out the parallels with a key scene in Don’t Look Up, when Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence’s characters, both astronomers, go on a morning talkshow to inform the public about a comet that’s heading to Earth, potentially leading to an extinction-level event. The newsreaders don’t care about what they have to say: they prefer to “keep the bad news light”. Now that I’ve watched the film, I understand the references people have been making. The worst part is that these presenters and journalists think they know better than chief scientists or academics who have been studying the climate crisis for decades, and they refuse to hear otherwise. It is wilful blindness and it is going to kill us.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

If I would have been at his place, tears would have run down my cheeks while speaking a truth which no one's understanding today
#climatechangeisreal
Our lives are in danger❤ https://t.co/IvaoDOcZXO

I would like to report on TMC this tweet.
A NASA Climate Scientist warns us about THE DANGER OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUE.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Another tweet about Peter Kalmus, NASA Scientist, who warns us about the DANGER OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUE.

He was that #realhero who raised his voice for us. Oh my Mother Nature,plz save us from the upcoming Climate Disaster
#ClimateActionNow #ClimateEmergency #ClimateJustice #ClimateCrisis
.
WE ARE NATURE DEFENDING ITSELF https://t.co/guP6zQBDcF

 

[HyperionMark]

I went on TV to explain Just Stop Oil – and it became a parody of Don’t Look Up | Miranda Whelehan

People were quick to point out the parallels with a key scene in Don’t Look Up, when Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence’s characters, both astronomers, go on a morning talkshow to inform the public about a comet that’s heading to Earth, potentially leading to an extinction-level event. The newsreaders don’t care about what they have to say: they prefer to “keep the bad news light”. Now that I’ve watched the film, I understand the references people have been making. The worst part is that these presenters and journalists think they know better than chief scientists or academics who have been studying the climate crisis for decades, and they refuse to hear otherwise. It is wilful blindness and it is going to kill us.

I thought this thread was titled "Discussion"
Constantly posting articles we already see elsewhere isn't very helpful without commentary of your own. May be an unpopular opinion, but it's my opinion regardless.

 

[mspohr]

I thought this thread was titled "Discussion"
Constantly posting articles we already see elsewhere isn't very helpful without commentary of your own. May be an unpopular opinion, but it's my opinion regardless.

I understand your concern. The reason I mostly post articles is that I view them as part of the discussion and I find that they are usually more articulate and well reasoned than something I could concoct. I could rant but I don't think it would add much to the discussion. Someone who has taken time to research and write an article is usually much better informed and has formulated their discussion points clearly. I post them so they can be part of the discussion. I'm sorry if you have also read the article elsewhere.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

I thought this thread was titled "Discussion"
Constantly posting articles we already see elsewhere isn't very helpful without commentary of your own. May be an unpopular opinion, but it's my opinion regardless.

Don't understand your point. The interview with Miranda Whelehan deals with the Climate Change/Global Warming issue which is a matter concerning this thread.

 

[mspohr]

Once You Know review – must-watch essay on climate change that tells us it’s already here

Most climate-change documentaries sound pre-emptive warnings about the consequences if we fail to take action. But this essential cine-essay by Emmanuel Cappellin – a former cinematographer for Yann-Arthus Bertrand – instead takes as its starting point the idea that all is already lost. That, as Cappellin concluded as a nature-obsessed young researcher, whatever projection you choose, capitalism is destined to deplete its resources and collapse within a few decades. If that sounds depressing, it is. This mournful piece, with the despairing Cappellin looking for answers, consults a series of Cassandras, in the shape of a number of environmentalists and collapsologists prognosticating about whether, and how, mankind can adapt.