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Comparing Sport and Base

Discussion in 'Roadster: Performance' started by Doug_G, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    When I first drove my base Roadster, I couldn't really "feel" the difference between standard and performance mode. But after a month or so I could definitely tell. So I've always wondered how much I would "feel" the difference between Base and Sport.

    Recently I had a brief opportunity to drive a Sport. Doing a 0-60 run, it definitely has more kick at the start. After that initial kick it felt about the same. Makes me think that 0.2 second difference might be all at the start.

    The car was running with AD07's. My Roadster currently has T1R's. The AD07's definitely have more grip in corners, but they are a lot noisier.

    My car has the adjustable suspension, and both cars were set up the same, so nothing to compare on that front.
     
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yes, that 0.2 sec gain is in the bottom half of the rev range. Once you are past 60 you got your lead and then it accelerates like the base model.
    I saw this first hand on the drag strip. It is amazingly consistent. Unless you have nothing but a long freeway commute, that lower speed acceleration advantage is right where you want it.
     
  3. scott451

    scott451 KWH-PWR#1349Sprt,S Sig#96

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    #3 scott451, Aug 15, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
    Having recently switched from a 1.5 to a 2.5 sport, I've noticed that the 1.5 has more torque than the 2.5 sport at the start. My 1.5 would routinely pull 281 ft-lbs off the start. The 2.5 sport feels anemic in standard (265ftlb). The 2.5 in white performance (295ftlb) starts of a littler slower than the 1.5 but then really puts on the torque once the car is rolling. The 2.5 in Red performance definitely feels slower (273ftlb) than the 1.5. So I end up driving the 2.5 in performance most of the time... You can see it in the sport 2.x white performance torque curve:
    below: attachment.php?attachmentid=2349&d=1313470496.png

    So I think the 1.5 ramps up the torque faster in the start. Here's (my guess) why. The 1.5 needs to apply the max torque immediately to be able to do 0-60 in 3.9 (actually 4.0). The 2.x has more power so it can get the car rolling, and then hit the torque hard. So in the 1.5 you feel the strong push right a the beginning and then all the way to 4500rpm. The 2.5 is a softer push at the start but then a strong push all the way to about 5000rpm.

    I need to collect the CAN bus data on a 1.5 to prove the above, but I've got 34K miles on a 1.5 and 2k miles on the 2.5 so I know how it feels. Anyone in San Diego want to take my data logger for a ride in their 1.5? (I didn't get a chance to collect the data in my 1.5 before I sold it).
     

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  4. S-2000 Roadster

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    Very interesting stuff, Scott.

    So, you can't gather this information from the VehicleLogs? What sorts of information are only available with your data logger? I assume you kept various VehicleLogs from your 1.5, so I'm getting the impression that they're not enough to measure the numbers in which you're interested.

    In any event, I would be very curious to see the technical performance differences between 1.x and 2.x as well as the differences between 2.x base and 2.x sport. On that note, are there any performance differences between 2.0 and 2.5?
     
  5. Roger Reid

    Roger Reid Old but effective

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    Scott, you mentioned something in your post that there is a "white performance" and a "red performance". At the risk of sounding ignorant especially having raced my 2.0 sport, I was not aware of these two different performance modes. Is the white/red performance modes specific to the 2.5?
     
  6. tennis_trs

    tennis_trs 2010 2.0 Roadster Sport

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    Look at the initial post in the following thread for white vs. red:
    Roadster Sport RED vs WHITE Performance modes

    It happens on my 2.0 Sport also; so it's not 2.5 only.
     
  7. Roger Reid

    Roger Reid Old but effective

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    Learn something new every day. Now I don't know if our race results were based upon red or white performance modes. I remember seeing both.
     
  8. Roger Reid

    Roger Reid Old but effective

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    I just tested my 2.0 and it goes into white performance every time I can't seem to get it to stay in red performance. What is the procedure? I have used the touch screen on the charge settings then set to performance. I have also turned the ignition key forward. Any ideas?
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Not staying in red is good. You want it white. Red means it's getting hot and has backed down your power.
     
  10. Roger Reid

    Roger Reid Old but effective

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    #10 Roger Reid, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
    So there is no way to manually choose red or white. I understand I want white.

    Edit: After reading the full thread
    Roadster Sport RED vs WHITE Performance modes
    I see that white mode is default until the PEM or the air temperature at the PEM cooling fan gets too high. There are no switches or toggles to choose from.

    Thanks all.
     
  11. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Scott,

    Doesn't driving in perf mode allow the batteries to operate at a higher temperature than standard mode? Won't that be detrimental to their long-term health?
     
  12. scott451

    scott451 KWH-PWR#1349Sprt,S Sig#96

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    Yes. On the 1.5 there isn't a difference in torque output in std vs perf. So a 1.5 in std has access to the full torque. So to get the same feeling on the 2.5, I have to run perf mode. I'm building a box to monitor the battery temp and put the car in standard if the battery temp is above 32C. The box also puts the car in Std whenever I charge or stop the car.

    I love how much quieter the 2.5 is than the 1.5 (especially the noisy pump). But I must say I am disappointed with how weak the torque is in the first 0-10mph of a full throttle launch. For all you 2.x sport drivers, take a drive in a friends 2008 in standard mode. Set the vds to peak and notice the torque hits 281.

    The other thing I've noticed about the 2.x is that it takes FOREVER for the TC to restore full torque after a TC event. the 1.5 is much faster.
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Yes, that is rather annoying, especially when it triggers during regen.
     

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