Confirmed... Model 3 will have ludicrous mode

[Red Sage]

one can hope. I was already estimating $60-65k for mine. This would push it into territory I'm not sure I should go. But, if I don't, I might regret it later. $5k or $10k is a lot to accelerate slightly faster.

It's less than the $60,000 more you'd spend on a Model S with Ludicrous, or the $300,000 you'd pay Ferrari, or Lamborghini to have a less-quick car.

 

[eye.surgeon]

Great! I'll be sure and max out my 3, and get it...if I win a lottery.

You'd need to win the lottery to buy a Model 3 performance model?

 

[McRat]

You'd need to win the lottery to buy a Model 3 performance model? You could spend more on a Mustang.

Elon said that 1/2 the people can afford the Model 3. I imagine, far less than 1/2 would be buying $70k Model 3's. Pretty sure the hotrod TM3 will cost a bit more than a Corvette, and much more than a BMW with a full sized engine.

Technically, Mustangs are for folk who do not mind the bully giving them a wedgie and stealing their lunch money. You really want the Camaro which costs about the same, except it handles great and is fast.

 

[Red Sage]

Just in case you haven't priced it, a base Model S is $71,500 (RWD) while a P90D with Ludicrous (no other options) is $119,500. A $48k difference just to have Ludicrous!

If pricing is similar, that would put you at $83k minimum for a 3L

Or... if the difference is 'half'...? $35,000 + $24,000 = $59,000

Wouldn't it be nice if...

$35,000_-_Model ☰ 70 (60)
$38,000_-_Model ☰ 70D (60D)
$47,000_-_Model ☰ 100D (90D)
$54,000_-_Model ☰ P100D (P90D)​

Yeah. That would be cool. Then just add LUDICROUS mode for $5,000 and Bob's Your Uncle.

 

[SageBrush]

but the weight difference should more than counteract this (much less weight lost, than battery power lost going from S to 3 most likely).

IIRC the acceleration is limited by the battery and is a function of car weight,

So starting from an 85 kWh Model S,
A Model 3 that is 20% lighter (based on the statements that it has 20% less volume)

That implies that a Ludicrous Model 3 has a battery size of 85*0.8 = 68 kWh

With appropriate deference given to 0.1 to 0.2 seconds either way

 

[juanmedina]

The next generation Tesla/Panasonic cells that are to be produced at the gigafactory will still be cylindrical, but will be slightly larger in size and have a newer chemistry. No prismatic cells.

IIRC the Tesla battery cells, unlike the standard Panasonic cells used in laptops, do not have individual fuses. This is because Tesla controls thermal/current runaway at the module level, and it allows the cells to be cheaper.

There is a single fuse that is replaced in the Model S to enable Ludicrous mode. It is for the entire battery, and they use a "solid state" fuse that monitors the current and is blown with an igniter. This enables the pack to output a maximum of 1500A rather than the previous 1300A.

I have seen pictures of the internals of the battery packs every cell has a fuse. Can you post any links validating what you are saying?

 

[Denarius]

I have seen pictures of the internals of the battery packs every cell has a fuse. Can you post any links validating what you are saying?

There is no way a single fuse can cost 10k.

The inconel contactors for are the expensive part.

 

[Red Sage]

For instance some people have said that the model 3 will is prismatic cells instead of the cylindical cells.

No. Tesla Motors will NEVER use prismatic cells. They are not as good in energy density, charging speed, or discharge power. So the cars that use them have heavier/bulkier packs with less capacity. They take forever to refill and you must do it more often. And you can't have an especially high performance car with them.

My understanding is that ludicrous option replaces the fuse that connects each cell so the model 3 will only need a few of those fuses compare to the 7000+ fuses in the model S.

No. There is only one Smart Fuse. The battery cells that Tesla Motors uses do not have individual fuses on them. All the battery management and safety systems are part of the battery pack instead of the individual cells. The Smart Fuse is used with an Inconel Contactor to improve the battery pack. Elon Musk describes it all here:

Three Dog Day

"Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, requiring a big gap between the normal operating current and max current, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty.​

...​

"That was combined with upgrading the main pack contactor to use inconel (a high temperature space-grade superalloy) instead of steel, so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. The net result is that we can safely increase the max pack output from 1300 to 1500 Amps."​

 

[JeffK]

Inconel is not terribly expensive at all... it's a few dollars per pound and it can be 3D printed.

 

[brianvicars]

Oh great! 0-60 in 1.7 seconds? That will surely propel my wife's bosoms over her head & into the back seat!

 

[Red Sage]

Fast acceleration is certainly helpful. However, there are a number of other components such as tires, suspension, braking, and endurance which factor into competitive performance. Road course times are a good metric when evaluating sports car performance.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... I'm sure that no one on an automotive enthusiast website is at all cognizant of such salient points. In fact, it's almost as if no one ever mentions this every day for the past four or five years straight. Oh, and none of us has taken 10th grade physics, or graduated college, learned to drive a manual transmission, had a track day, or picked up a copy of Car and Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend in the past 30 years either. So, we are undoubtedly just dumb enough to think that straight line performance is the only meaningful statistical metric there is or could possibly be and wouldn't know a skid pad rating from a slalom run if someone drove us 36 laps on the Nürburgring. Now please, pardon me while I check to see if my I.Q. is lower than my sneaker size yet.

☰

 

[zenmaster]

Yadda, yadda, yadda... I'm sure that no one on an automotive enthusiast website is at all cognizant of such salient points. In fact, it's almost as if no one ever mentions this every day for the past four or five years straight. Oh, and none of us has taken 10th grade physics, or graduated college, learned to drive a manual transmission, had a track day, or picked up a copy of Car and Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend in the past 30 years either. So, we are undoubtedly just dumb enough to think that straight line performance is the only meaningful statistical metric there is or could possibly be and wouldn't know a skid pad rating from a slalom run if someone drove us 36 laps on the Nürburgring. Now please, pardon me while I check to see if my I.Q. is lower than my sneaker size yet.

☰

You conveniently threw out the context and meaning of the response, which was a comparison between Model 3 ludicrous as being somehow competitive in the BMW M3 and Audi S4 markets. Those are performance oriented cars, with their capability differences being technical as such.

 

[SageBrush]

Yadda, yadda, yadda... I'm sure that no one on an automotive enthusiast website is at all cognizant of such salient points. In fact, it's almost as if no one ever mentions this every day for the past four or five years straight. Oh, and none of us has taken 10th grade physics, or graduated college, learned to drive a manual transmission, had a track day, or picked up a copy of Car and Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend in the past 30 years either. So, we are undoubtedly just dumb enough to think that straight line performance is the only meaningful statistical metric there is or could possibly be and wouldn't know a skid pad rating from a slalom run if someone drove us 36 laps on the Nürburgring. Now please, pardon me while I check to see if my I.Q. is lower than my sneaker size yet.

☰

Gear heads respectfully excluded, why do the other 99% care about 0-60 times ? I can only guess since I can count on one hand the number of times I have floored the pedal of my Prius (v)agon but I imagine three reasons:

1. For the thrill of feeling a little back pressure
2. The (hopefully) rare street race
3. Those occasions where a passing of another car is ill-conceived and a truck is barreling down from the opposite direction

Interesting enough, all the other elements of a true 'performance sports' car are not relevant for these scenarios.

 

[Red Sage]

You conveniently threw out the context and meaning of the response, which was a comparison between Model 3 ludicrous as being somehow competitive in the BMW M3 and Audi S4 markets. Those are performance oriented cars, with their capability differences being technical as such.

Dude. I didn't 'purposely' do anything of the sort. The forum software only quotes the content of a specific post, not nested post quotes from within it. And none of that changes the facts of the matter. You made a complete and total 'DUH' post!

The fact of the matter is that ALL performance aspects matter to those who care... But for some reason, whichever performance metrics that an electric vehicle excels in are often poo-pooed as being of no consequence. Once again, 0-60 MPH and 1/4 mile times were of pivotal importance: Until Tesla Motors started kicking everyone's butts. Then? All of a sudden the goal posts were moved.

Here the thing is... Show me a BMW M3, M4, or M5 that can surpass ALL of the Performance metrics of a Tesla Model S -- WHILE achieving the equivalent of 80, 90, or 100 MPG. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[zenmaster]

Dude. I didn't 'purposely' do anything of the sort. The forum software only quotes the content of a specific post, not nested post quotes from within it. And none of that changes the facts of the matter. You made a complete and total 'DUH' post!

The fact of the matter is that ALL performance aspects matter to those who care... But for some reason, whichever performance metrics that an electric vehicle excels in are often poo-pooed as being of no consequence. Once again, 0-60 MPH and 1/4 mile times were of pivotal importance: Until Tesla Motors started kicking everyone's butts. Then? All of a sudden the goal posts were moved.

Here the thing is... Show me a BMW M3, M4, or M5 that can surpass ALL of the Performance metrics of a Tesla Model S -- WHILE achieving the equivalent of 80, 90, or 100 MPG. Go ahead. I'll wait.

I understand it may have been a DUH post, but again it was specifically addressing the notion that a Model 3 ludicrous would somehow be competitive to the BMW M3 or that general market. Nothing else. That flew over your head apparently and you went off into strawman land.

 

[Red Sage]

Gear heads respectfully excluded, why do the other 99% care about 0-60 times ?

It had been a metric of common comparison between motor cars, mostly because 60 MPH is within a hair's breadth of 100 KPH (~62 MPH). It was strictly a means of relative notation as to how long someone might take to comfortably reach cruising speed if stopped at a signal light that led to an onramp to a freeway or highway, if they happened to be in a hurry. Even in the 'Real World' some people have a more leaden right foot than others. In any case, one might practically choose to be especially careful when attempting to merge into speedy traffic in a car that might manage the feat in around 38 seconds, such as an ancient Volkswagen Microbus. Most cars have been able to do so in much less than 15 seconds over the past 30 years or so, and pretty much anything that did so in less than 8 seconds was considered rather fast for a very long time. Then the Japanese discovered how to properly use turbos, and it has been an arms race to sub-4 second 0-60 MPH times ever since.

 

[Red Sage]

I understand it may have been a DUH post, but again it was specifically addressing the notion that a Model 3 ludicrous would somehow be competitive to the BMW M3 or that general market. Nothing else. That flew over your head apparently and you went off into strawman land.

And what apparently goes over your head is how ridiculous it is to presume that Tesla Motors would release the car that was designed specifically to dethrone the BMW 3-Series without addressing a means to do so in every conceivable manner imaginable. You also overlook how in recent years, BMW has been caught, and surpassed, by numerous competitors. There is no reason to presume that Tesla Motors will not do so as well with Model ☰.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I am truly concerned about 0-60 times.

The shorter time - the more I'm willing to spend. This is how I want to look with my Ludacris M3. I can't wait.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Naw.....that's kind subdued.....I want to look like this:

 

[SageBrush]

It was strictly a means of relative notation as to how long someone might take to comfortably reach cruising speed if stopped at a signal light that led to an onramp to a freeway or highway, if they happened to be in a hurry

Ahh... so the country was doing mental calculations of trip travel time to within ~ 5 seconds.