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All US Cars capable of FSD will be enabled for one month trial this week
- Thread starter Ron97062
- Start date
Same here! First short drive was uneventful, with the exception that it accelerates from every stop like it’s a dire emergency. That part feels very unnatural.
ETA: Another drive and the acceleration really is annoying, rather than tapering the acceleration as it approaches the speed limit it accelerates hard right up to it, then actually has to dip into the regen to keep from going over. Very awkward and unnatural. And when approaching slowed or stopped traffic, it doesn't slow down until the last second and then brakes hard. In only a few kms, I had to disengage about 3 times. C'mon Tesla, this stuff should be the low hanging fruit and even 11.4.x did it better. As many others have also noted, it seems paralyzed with indecision at an intersection with no other traffic. Also, when entering a school zone (which it doesn't recognize) I scrolled that speed limit down to 30km/h from 50 - which it immediately reset to 50 and accelerated hard back up, forcing another disengagement rather than fight with it.
It still feels very, very beta.
ETA: Another drive and the acceleration really is annoying, rather than tapering the acceleration as it approaches the speed limit it accelerates hard right up to it, then actually has to dip into the regen to keep from going over. Very awkward and unnatural. And when approaching slowed or stopped traffic, it doesn't slow down until the last second and then brakes hard. In only a few kms, I had to disengage about 3 times. C'mon Tesla, this stuff should be the low hanging fruit and even 11.4.x did it better. As many others have also noted, it seems paralyzed with indecision at an intersection with no other traffic. Also, when entering a school zone (which it doesn't recognize) I scrolled that speed limit down to 30km/h from 50 - which it immediately reset to 50 and accelerated hard back up, forcing another disengagement rather than fight with it.
It still feels very, very beta.
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Good 'ole Cambridge...why am I not surprised with this new announcement..
Drivers no longer have the right to turn right on red in Cambridge
Drivers aren’t legally allowed to turn right on red anymore in Cambridge, Massachusetts. State law allows drivers to make right turns at red lights unless otherwise noted by “No turn on red” signs. Those signs now bar the maneuver at every traffic light in Cambridge. Two years ago, city leaders...www.nbcboston.com
Just follow my motto: It's not illegal if you don't get caught!
I know you can change the following distance when in AP (see screenshot below from the manual). Is there a way to adjust it when in FSD? Does the setting made in AP carry over to FSD? When I was using FSD on the trial, it seemed to carry this setting from AP to FSD, but I never thought to test it.
Even with the following distance set to the maximum, TACC/AP follows too closely. I observed the same with the FSDS trial with that same setting and FSDS set to chill.Just follow my motto: It's not illegal if you don't get caught!
I know you can change the following distance when in AP (see screenshot below from the manual). Is there a way to adjust it when in FSD? Does the setting made in AP carry over to FSD? When I was using FSD on the trial, it seemed to carry this setting from AP to FSD, but I never thought to test it.
In theory, an automated driver can be programmed to know, based on GPS location, what traffic laws regarding right turn on red, default speed limits, etc. apply to that area.
You and I have different parameters as I keep mine set at 3 (which on average is a 2 second following distance) or 4 if it is raining. I have never had to panic-stop override TACC for safety issues (or if I did in the past, it has been a VERY long time). And I have used AP on probably 90+% of the 90K miles on my 3.
The only time I use Chill is in stop-and-go traffic: TACC is a bit too jerky for my tastes in this situation.
People have run polls before on what following distance they use, and it always comes out this way. Half the people use 2-3 and the other half use 7 and say "it's too close." You dig a bit more, and the 2-3's are mostly in cities where anything more will just lead to another car in front of you, and the 7's are out in the country on low density roads wondering why you'd want to be within 500' of your neighbor.
As a 2-3 user, I remember last time I read this and I tried 7 the next time I was in the car on a road trip, and my wife and kids were like "why are you staying so far back from the car in front of you" within just a few minutes, it was that odd.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Why, do you save time by driving closer to the car in front ?!
As a suburban user - I have always used 7 and until V12 didn't have issues with it. V12 doesn't seem to honor the setting, either going too close the car in front or falling too far back.
Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
Yes! That would be the right thing to do, and communicating that info would be great ADAS for regular driving.
But it isn't the "end-to-end neural net" way.
I'm so happy to see all you who were 'left behind' testing out V12.3.6! You get the latest and greatest. Not that it will meet all your expectations but you at least will discover what the rest of us have been discussing (and arguing about!)
I'm enjoying reading your reactions and seeing how even on V12.3.6, drivers are split between it being wonderful and it being not worth it.
Please add a post if, after a few weeks, you stop using it because it is faster to drive from point A to B on your own.
I was blown away by my tiny, 2 mile, test drive but I'm late for everything and use my car to go from A to B so haven't bothered to drive with it again. I'm making my husband activate it a few times on city streets so I can get a better sense of it but he's choosing to switch to his non-FSD profile for most of his drives. He prefers to use TACC for most of his city driving.
Our FSDV12.3.3 is head and shoulders above anything we've had before but we still can't use it on 80 kph highways here (so I'm assuming we are on the V12 stack and not V11) because on manual speed offset it doesn't handle the Highway 60 signs. For this summer, that highway makes up 70% of our road trip miles, and we anticipate doing that drive at least 4x a month, so not having FSD enabled (one has to use a separate profile in order to have TACC), is a real disappointment.
Worse, on AP it got confused on our drive home and wouldn't allow my husband to dial up the speed past 70 kph. When he switched from FSD profile to AP profile, the software would not give up the idea the speed limit was 60 kph even after passing multiple 80 kph signs. On FSD we could dial up the speed but every highway number sign was met with a sickening deacceleration back to 60. TACC was ok, thankfully, but AP (autosteer + TACC) wouldn't accept any speed higher than 70 kph no matter how I set the speed offset. AP worked as it should on the second part of the drive so we were guessing it was fixed with the park and resume driving when we stopped for a bathroom break. Unfortunately, as I said, I'm seldom on time so don't want to have to take the time to pull off the highway, park, then start off again, hoping problems will be fixed.
I'm enjoying reading your reactions and seeing how even on V12.3.6, drivers are split between it being wonderful and it being not worth it.
Please add a post if, after a few weeks, you stop using it because it is faster to drive from point A to B on your own.
I was blown away by my tiny, 2 mile, test drive but I'm late for everything and use my car to go from A to B so haven't bothered to drive with it again. I'm making my husband activate it a few times on city streets so I can get a better sense of it but he's choosing to switch to his non-FSD profile for most of his drives. He prefers to use TACC for most of his city driving.
Our FSDV12.3.3 is head and shoulders above anything we've had before but we still can't use it on 80 kph highways here (so I'm assuming we are on the V12 stack and not V11) because on manual speed offset it doesn't handle the Highway 60 signs. For this summer, that highway makes up 70% of our road trip miles, and we anticipate doing that drive at least 4x a month, so not having FSD enabled (one has to use a separate profile in order to have TACC), is a real disappointment.
Worse, on AP it got confused on our drive home and wouldn't allow my husband to dial up the speed past 70 kph. When he switched from FSD profile to AP profile, the software would not give up the idea the speed limit was 60 kph even after passing multiple 80 kph signs. On FSD we could dial up the speed but every highway number sign was met with a sickening deacceleration back to 60. TACC was ok, thankfully, but AP (autosteer + TACC) wouldn't accept any speed higher than 70 kph no matter how I set the speed offset. AP worked as it should on the second part of the drive so we were guessing it was fixed with the park and resume driving when we stopped for a bathroom break. Unfortunately, as I said, I'm seldom on time so don't want to have to take the time to pull off the highway, park, then start off again, hoping problems will be fixed.
You need to turn on FSD, let it fail in the usual spot, disengage and press the talk button to send a short message to Tesla about it. Once they know about the problem YOU are having, it might get fixed sooner.
Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
FSDS drives 42 MPH in a 35 MPH speed trap zone here (near Tesla's Palo Alto engineering offices) and drifts left onto the double yellow line, both mistakes requiring overrides.
It sticks to the right side in a concrete funnel merge, which dangerously invites oncoming traffic to pass you amid the squeeze-merge.
It fails to move over and slow down for little kids on the edge of the sidewalk or to get out of the door zone of parked vehicles.
Turning into a parking lot, it failed to first merge into the bike lane.
Overall, it was a scary and difficult student driver that you can't teach other than sending a voice message to Tesla. Much more stressful than driving manually.
Unsafe at any price (to riff on Ralph Nader) and I don't think the end-to-end neural net approach is going to suffice. It's like trying to teach a dog to drive. **Higher level reasoning is needed.** Each construction zone is unique, there's a long tail of weird intersections and parking lots and road hazards, high complexity in local vehicle laws, and predicting everyone else's actions is key to safety.
I never tried FSDS on the freeway because it's untrustworthy at low speeds. At 65 MPH there isn't enough time to catch its mistakes.
OTOH, TACC got through mirages without phantom braking! Also the phone-key finally detects who's getting into the driver seat and auto-selects the right driver profile.
So well worth updating and simply not using the trial!
I don't have wifi at my parking spot so any voice messages go into the ether.
Enough others have the same issues: too slow, too fast, brakes instead of using regen, jackrabbit starts, doesn't avoid potholes, and plenty are now experiencing FSD interpreting and reacting to highway # signs are if they are speed limit signs (V12 is the first I've seen others comment on this issue, I've been unable to use FSD or AP on that particular drive due to this issue since my first summer with it, 2021.)
Also, I disagree that it is my responsibility to test and make usable the alpha software that tesla releases as beta or worse, supervised. These aren't edge cases. This isn't a quirk of driving where signs are in metric, and there is no logical reason I should be able to calculate instinctively the regen feathering required to end up in 'hold' at a stop line while the computer can't even attempt it. The computer knows the speed it is going, supposedly the distance (if we believe lord elon's claims about tesla-vision), the temperature, humidity, rain or snow, and can combine all those factors to come up with a slowing pattern that will achieve what I achieve through instinct.
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Just wanted to update this - I recalibrated the cameras (which took a LOOONG time) and 12.3.6's behaviour was greatly improved. It feels much smoother and more respectful of distances to curbs, the roadside, and other cars. I'm now actually having quite a few zero disengagement drives.
I started my free trial last Thursday on my 2023 MYLR. I previously paid for a month of it last summer, just to check it out on a long road trip. I haven't used the new version much yet, but I don't see much in the way of improvements. It has problems with double left turn lanes. At two different such intersections, going into turn from the far left lane, it has tried to drift rightwards into the other turn lane. Additionally, it still has lane confusion at times on multi-lane roads.
Also, in my very low traffic suburban neighborhood, I really don't like how it handles the 3 all-way stops between the neighborhood entrance and my house. It creeps up too slow to the full stop, and then remains in full stop for too long, especially if there is no other traffic -- all of the stops have good visibility.
I definitely will not be continuing with it beyond the free trial.
Also, in my very low traffic suburban neighborhood, I really don't like how it handles the 3 all-way stops between the neighborhood entrance and my house. It creeps up too slow to the full stop, and then remains in full stop for too long, especially if there is no other traffic -- all of the stops have good visibility.
I definitely will not be continuing with it beyond the free trial.
I got the trial FSD just three days ago and am very impressed with how much it can do!
But I also see the problems it still has. I do see the problem at intersections where my car was the only one at a rural stop sign and needed to turn left on to a 55 mph highway. The car waited several seconds with no traffic, then creeped into the intersection very slowly. The car actually went half way into the oncoming traffic lane, and by then other cars were approaching and the car was creeping into a left turn. I could wait no longer and hit the accelerator to complete the left turn.
The other main issue I see is making turns into dedicated left or right turn lanes. The car often waits until I'm over half way past the start of the turn lane (where I would normally enter) and then it starts the turn signal (late) and suddenly crosses the solid white line into the turn lane. The danger here is that cars behind you might assume you are not entering the turn lane and they'll cut into it behind you and sometimes accelerate to block your turn since the Tesla is so slow in making the decision to begin the turn.
But I also see the problems it still has. I do see the problem at intersections where my car was the only one at a rural stop sign and needed to turn left on to a 55 mph highway. The car waited several seconds with no traffic, then creeped into the intersection very slowly. The car actually went half way into the oncoming traffic lane, and by then other cars were approaching and the car was creeping into a left turn. I could wait no longer and hit the accelerator to complete the left turn.
The other main issue I see is making turns into dedicated left or right turn lanes. The car often waits until I'm over half way past the start of the turn lane (where I would normally enter) and then it starts the turn signal (late) and suddenly crosses the solid white line into the turn lane. The danger here is that cars behind you might assume you are not entering the turn lane and they'll cut into it behind you and sometimes accelerate to block your turn since the Tesla is so slow in making the decision to begin the turn.
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