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Consumer Reports Review
- Thread starter Flybuddy
- Start date
Not sure I want to watch this so I just skimmed the thumbnails and didn't notice any data being shown so I'm assuming they are saying subjective results which isn't very interesting to me.
DanCar
Active Member
Summary: They don't recommend the Model Y because of reliability issues. Has an excellent sports car feel to it. They had a difficult time recommending a different car though.
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I don’t trust CR. They say they are an unbiased non-profit that does not accept paid advertising. What they don’t tell you is that they take donations and grants from some of the companies they review and they get paid commissions from a car sales website when a CR member links to the site and buys a car. New Teslas are not a part of the website offerings because Tesla does not pay advertising fees or sales commissions.
That might explain why Tesla AP “came in a distant second” to GM’s driver assist system even though Tesla won for features and ease of use. CR put a lot of emphasis on ensuring the driver was paying attention. They liked the GM camera that will cause the assist system to disengage if the driver looks away from the road versus the Tesla steering wheel nag. Drivers might think functionality and ease of use are more important, but CR established the scoring criteria.
So the reviewers in this video basically said they like the Y, but can’t recommend it because FSD is beta and some owners have reported fit/finish/reliability issues. Well, at least you can park a Y in your garage without the manufacturer suggesting you park outside to avoid a house fire (like GM recommended for Bolt owners until they had a chance to have the recall repair done). But CR loves GM and they get plenty of paid commissions on sales of GM cars.
Too bad, I used to trust CR years ago, but they are just another paid advocacy now. Check out reviews of CR - tons of complaints for the same reason. I now put CR in the same category as CNBC that is paid “news” for the highest bidder.
That might explain why Tesla AP “came in a distant second” to GM’s driver assist system even though Tesla won for features and ease of use. CR put a lot of emphasis on ensuring the driver was paying attention. They liked the GM camera that will cause the assist system to disengage if the driver looks away from the road versus the Tesla steering wheel nag. Drivers might think functionality and ease of use are more important, but CR established the scoring criteria.
So the reviewers in this video basically said they like the Y, but can’t recommend it because FSD is beta and some owners have reported fit/finish/reliability issues. Well, at least you can park a Y in your garage without the manufacturer suggesting you park outside to avoid a house fire (like GM recommended for Bolt owners until they had a chance to have the recall repair done). But CR loves GM and they get plenty of paid commissions on sales of GM cars.
Too bad, I used to trust CR years ago, but they are just another paid advocacy now. Check out reviews of CR - tons of complaints for the same reason. I now put CR in the same category as CNBC that is paid “news” for the highest bidder.
They are clearly not up to snuff on Tesla. Looks like they only “test drove” the Y since they don’t know about things like voice control. I think they are typical ICE car reviewers.
Those who knocked on CR. I don’t think they stated anything we don’t already know and have been saying them ourselves on this forum and in Reddit.
Have you guys driving GM with their AP? Have you driven a car with Comma.ai? How do you know Tesla has the best AP right now? Think about it, Comma.ai can do 80% of what Tesla’s default AP can do with one camera and $1000, that’s pretty impressive. (If you dont know GeoHotz, look him up. Elon tried to recruit him when he was starting out)
BTW, Tesla’s voice control is marginally better than my the voice control in my MB GLK that is approaching 10 yrs old.
Have you guys driving GM with their AP? Have you driven a car with Comma.ai? How do you know Tesla has the best AP right now? Think about it, Comma.ai can do 80% of what Tesla’s default AP can do with one camera and $1000, that’s pretty impressive. (If you dont know GeoHotz, look him up. Elon tried to recruit him when he was starting out)
BTW, Tesla’s voice control is marginally better than my the voice control in my MB GLK that is approaching 10 yrs old.
Koolio46
Member
Iirc, most of the reasons CR’s definition of “reliability” was due to fit and finish, which are NOT reliability issues.
Some of the reliability issues (like heat stopped working, couldn’t charge at home or Superchargers, etc) are most likely a very small percentage but is amplified because of the very fervent and vocal Tesla owners on the web. For example, as a former Audi and BMW owner who was on the Bimmerpost and Audiworld forums, there wasn’t the same intensity of love for the brand, IMO.
Some of the reliability issues (like heat stopped working, couldn’t charge at home or Superchargers, etc) are most likely a very small percentage but is amplified because of the very fervent and vocal Tesla owners on the web. For example, as a former Audi and BMW owner who was on the Bimmerpost and Audiworld forums, there wasn’t the same intensity of love for the brand, IMO.
There are Tesla haters on TMC, too. Same members that had some particular issue with Tesla and now spend hours on the forums voicing their outrage.
That’s not what they said in the video. They even called out fit and finish not equating to reliability issue but the survey from subscribers/owners came back with real issues that couldn’t be ignored. They even said they don’t really have issues with their test car except for fit and finish. We know what the issues are, they do exist. Also, CR rarely recommends any first year model of any car.
I spent quite a bit of time in Acura forums when RDX refreshed, CR said the same thing about the 2019 3rd gen RDX which is first year model. Same arguments were made by the members there.... small percentage of issues, CR is paid sponsors, no issue with my car... you name it. And, Acura RDX sells only 65k annually! Any reliability issue should be more amplified by percentage and yet forum members argues otherwise.
Very typical of owners in love with their car, when CR recommended M3 for first time, everyone was citing CR and non of the cynical comments but when they go against our view, they are being paid...
Doesn’t matter short term. There isn’t an alternative in the price range. You get this or nothing.
Koolio46
Member
Thanks, clearly I did not recall the video correctly. Haha.
Interesting point about CR not reviewing first year models...I haven’t analyzed their historical data to know but believe you.
I remember when I bought the first year VW Touareg V8 back in 2004...there was a ton of negative reviews on the issues it had in the first year. VW Vortex also had ppl saying the same thing but luckily mine was perfect.
My issue is one of perspective. They clearly talked about autopilot limitations as clear safety issues, but they overlook the same issues with other cars.
The comparisons are largely subjective and ok for what they are. I happen to like comma ai, and it is impressive how far they've come.
CR got bought-out a few years ago and I have not trusted them since. New owners push their own agendas under the guise of being unbiased. My problem with CR is trust, just like when you don’t know if a liar is actually telling the truth. So, I ignore them unless they are referenced in a thread.
actually, at 20:28, he differentiates between the known fit/finish issues and reliability issues that have been reported by Tesla Model Y owners themselves. They elaborate a bit at 21:10 about the reliability data coming directly from Model Y owners, and that CR did reach out to Tesla for their input, but Tesla declined to respond.
Now if we think that the reliability results that came back were rigged, then Im guessing the next step is to take this to the SCOTUS, then attack them on twitter when they dont rule in TMC's forum favor.
I responded to the survey and yes, reported the several issues I had which were mostly fit and finish. I do have one, perhaps minor, possible safety issue. I don't remember whether that made it in to the survey or not.
Consumers reports definitely ain't the mag it once was. I have been a subscriber for over 50 years. Back in the 60s and 70s, they'd tell stuff like piston travel per mile (on the assumption that the more travel the more wear on rings I assume). They also would actually tell you their bias, that is the weighting for how they would score their ratings.
But you could never trust their ratings if you were going for a new car and planned to keep it. I was buying Datsuns back then. They always got terrible first year rating but always near the top for used car recommendations due to their reliability. And CR's darling models in years 2-5 would sink rapidly.
These days you can't exactly tell their biases, but I still subscribe because for some reason I find it entertaining.
They do review first year cars. They typically don't recommend a first year. Their thinking is that you need the first year to iron out problems. And I agree with them in that regard (my MY not withstanding).
I hadn't heard that. Any links, references for that. I'd be interested in reading it. I do think they have become more scummy in the last couple years. I regularly get sweepstakes tickets very reminiscent of Publisher's Clearing House even to the extent of statements similar to "One of your tickets may be the winner of [whatever the prize is]).
Consumers reports definitely ain't the mag it once was. I have been a subscriber for over 50 years. Back in the 60s and 70s, they'd tell stuff like piston travel per mile (on the assumption that the more travel the more wear on rings I assume). They also would actually tell you their bias, that is the weighting for how they would score their ratings.
But you could never trust their ratings if you were going for a new car and planned to keep it. I was buying Datsuns back then. They always got terrible first year rating but always near the top for used car recommendations due to their reliability. And CR's darling models in years 2-5 would sink rapidly.
These days you can't exactly tell their biases, but I still subscribe because for some reason I find it entertaining.
They do review first year cars. They typically don't recommend a first year. Their thinking is that you need the first year to iron out problems. And I agree with them in that regard (my MY not withstanding).
I hadn't heard that. Any links, references for that. I'd be interested in reading it. I do think they have become more scummy in the last couple years. I regularly get sweepstakes tickets very reminiscent of Publisher's Clearing House even to the extent of statements similar to "One of your tickets may be the winner of [whatever the prize is]).
I don't trust organizations like Consumer Reports and J.D. Power. I think forums will give you a better idea of what the issues a car has and how reliable it is.
I agree with you. I was on both Bimmerpost and AudiWorld and people don't post on the forums when they've had a good experience. They vent when things go wrong. Tesla owners are a bit more vocal.
Generally speaking, persons tend to go to the effort of creating accounts/posting on forums to report issues, not to report "all is well". Thus, ability to gather meaningful metrics, would be challenging.
I agree with your analysis but not your conclusion.
I expect a product to be good, so what I am most interested in is what problems people have had. For instance, I rarely read the 5 star reviews but do note that they are most of the ratings (say the overall is 4.5 or so). I discard the lowest ratings/reviews as they are typically "this is garbage" etc. For me, the sweet spot are the 3 and 4 ratings. These people in general like the product but have had some issue. If the issues are all over the map, no I don't get much from it. But some times you see some consistent complaint. That is worth paying attention to. The MY for example. Fit and FInish. I did more looking than usual. While panel gaps and the like are worse than my Outback or Camry Hybrid, I decided it was good enough for me. Probably others on this forum would have rejected the car. But the forum gave me provided me with the information to look at something I would not have otherwise. I also checked some of the other common complaints. But my seats folded down fine from both latching positions for example.
