Cruise and Waymo - When will they give up like CCS to NACS?

[kriskros91]

This is sort of meant to be clickbait-y but with Ford and GM going in favor of NACS instead of CCS and Elon stating that he is looking forward to license software like FSD when will people give up on these other options?

Mary Barra (GM CEO) said she will save $400 million by not making chargers in the future. Similar cost savings (at least in the short term) would be gained by getting rid of these alternative solutions right? She did openly say that she has Cruise cars on roads in 3 cities but even when I heard it in person it sounded so laughable that it was funny. 3 cities compared to a nationwide solution in the USA and Canada and soon parts of Europe and Asia?

 

[JB47394]

This is sort of meant to be clickbait-y but with Ford and GM going in favor of NACS instead of CCS and Elon stating that he is looking forward to license software like FSD when will people give up on these other options?

Everything in North America should converge on NACS now, though it'll take a few years. That includes both car manufacturers (Rivians that use Superchargers!) as well as companies with fast charger networks (Electrify America, etc). Fortunately, people with CCS cars should be able to get an adapter because NACS is supposed to be compatible. The Supercharger "magic dock" is just a slick way to make an adapter available at the charger instead of forcing CCS car owners to carry one around and fumble with it while charging.

I expect that "magic dock" rollouts should quickly vanish. Tesla agreed to that in order to get government money for chargers. Now that Tesla is providing charging to multiple car manufacturers, they can get the money without clowning with CCS adapters. Incidentally, Tesla was going to sneak through that loophole earlier by Aptera adopting the NACS connector, but Aptera hasn't started production yet, and they may never start.

Just as everything will go NACS in North America, I assume Ford and GM will still build cars with CCS for Europe and GP/T for China.

I'm curious to know how competing North American fast charger companies will respond. The CCS companies have created a mess out of charging with their initial effort. Do they have the capability to get their act together and build something that competes?

 

[EVNow]

Waymo will not give up until the monopoly money is flowing.

Cruise will probably close down / merged if there is a serious recession affecting GM.

Intel is the smart one for spinning off MobilEye and slowly reducing their stake.

 

[JB47394]

I'll add that I wonder whether Ford and GM will go to a "standard" driver-side-rear charge port location.

 

[kriskros91]

Waymo will not give up until the monopoly money is flowing.

Cruise will probably close down / merged if there is a serious recession affecting GM.

Intel is the smart one for spinning off MobilEye and slowly reducing their stake.

If FSD is rolled out officially before Waymo has more penetration or better reliability will they go bankrupt? Or is this a future where multiple options are available for autonomous driving?

 

[EVNow]

If FSD is rolled out officially before Waymo has more penetration or better reliability will they go bankrupt? Or is this a future where multiple options are available for autonomous driving?

I don’t think world’s governments will allow any kind of monopoly. There will be multiple players with different solutions, features and quality.

 

[Bladerskb]

3 cities compared to a nationwide solution in the USA and Canada and soon parts of Europe and Asia?

Tesla has driverless cars nationwide in the USA, Canada and soon parts of Europe and Asia?

 

[kriskros91]

Tesla has driverless cars nationwide in the USA, Canada and soon parts of Europe and Asia?

No they don't. But their solution will be able to be made into that soon. I am certain that they will solve autonomy faster than these other companies. And because they are doing training in these other countries already in a shadow fashion or in employee cars they will generalize it Worldwide much faster.

To me this is what makes TSLA so valuable.

 

[Cheburashka]

Everything in North America should converge on NACS now, though it'll take a few years. That includes both car manufacturers (Rivians that use Superchargers!) as well as companies with fast charger networks (Electrify America, etc). Fortunately, people with CCS cars should be able to get an adapter because NACS is supposed to be compatible. The Supercharger "magic dock" is just a slick way to make an adapter available at the charger instead of forcing CCS car owners to carry one around and fumble with it while charging.

I expect that "magic dock" rollouts should quickly vanish. Tesla agreed to that in order to get government money for chargers. Now that Tesla is providing charging to multiple car manufacturers, they can get the money without clowning with CCS adapters. Incidentally, Tesla was going to sneak through that loophole earlier by Aptera adopting the NACS connector, but Aptera hasn't started production yet, and they may never start.

Just as everything will go NACS in North America, I assume Ford and GM will still build cars with CCS for Europe and GP/T for China.

I'm curious to know how competing North American fast charger companies will respond. The CCS companies have created a mess out of charging with their initial effort. Do they have the capability to get their act together and build something that competes?

Bidens gov has clarified that CCS must be present for government funding. So unless Elon doesn't want the handout (unlikely), Tesla will still be adding CCS.

Tesla FSD is nothing like Wayno or Cruise so I have no idea what this thread is about. One is driverless, the other is glorified adaptive cruise control that turns the steering wheel.

 

[kriskros91]

Bidens gov has clarified that CCS must be present for government funding. So unless Elon doesn't want the handout (unlikely), Tesla will still be adding CCS.

Tesla FSD is nothing like Wayno or Cruise so I have no idea what this thread is about. One is driverless, the other is glorified adaptive cruise control that turns the steering wheel.

I was using the CCS/NACS thing as an example. With enough support from other manufacturers the White House may change their stance on charging standards and funding. It's sort of silly for the government to be artificially propping up Chargepoint providers that are offering CCS/NACS/ChadeMO but that actually do a really poor job of delivering reliable, fast chargers. It leads to the current public charging situation that is mostly a mess.

And yes Tesla does want a piece of that pie - they have said it as much - but they never had that money before and still were able to develop this great Supercharger network so it's not like they HAVE to comply.

In its current state yes, FSD is driver-supervised autonomy. But it is getting more and more control over decision making that used to always be on the driver so it is definitely trending towards solving autonomy. Fixing roundabouts and parking lot controls will be another big step forwards in my mind towards this which is (reportedly) happening this year. That is what I mean. The software that we know as FSD will lead to actual driverless ubiquitous robotaxis in the (near) future. I think Kathie Woods is right. First it will start as an Uber/Lyft-like service that Tesla offers for actual Tesla drivers in an FSD Tesla driving people around in some particular cities that are already friendly towards autonomous driving. Once it is proven that it is cheaper and better than those other services (I bet this will be in the form of covering more surface area than those geofenced solutions) it will get approved to go full driverless and spread throughout the country in robotaxi form.

 

[EVNow]

One is driverless,

that gets stuck everywhere and SF officials say will not get a driver’s licens.

 

[Bladerskb]

No they don't. But their solution will be able to be made into that soon. I am certain that they will solve autonomy faster than these other companies. And because they are doing training in these other countries already in a shadow fashion or in employee cars they will generalize it Worldwide much faster.

To me this is what makes TSLA so valuable.

Tesla fans have been saying that since 2015, and it still hasn't happened.

 

[Cheburashka]

that gets stuck everywhere and SF officials say will not get a driver’s licens.

Tesla won't even move without a driver in the seat.

 

[EVNow]

Tesla won't even move without a driver in the seat.

Waymo won't even move in my city. They don't even move in front of Google HQ

 

[Cheburashka]

They definitely do move in front of Google HQ. They've been testing in Mountain View since the very first Priuses and I've seen the Waymo semi in Mountain View very recently.

 

[jpk195]

Mercedes just released a level 3 system. Tesla FSD, in the legal documents where it counts, is a level 2 system. The rest is just (dishonest, IMO) marketing. It’s premature to mention FSD and cruise/Waymo in the same breath. They currently are totally different approaches.

 

[EVNow]

They definitely do move in front of Google HQ. They've been testing in Mountain View since the very first Priuses and I've seen the Waymo semi in Mountain View very recently.

Whats your point ? Just proud of being pedantic ?

Ofcourse Tesla is not driverless and Waymo is geofenced. End of story.