I suspect that some Tesla service centers (or individual Rangers) will be willing to swap pads, perhaps on the QT. That is a trivial and very safe modification.
I doubt any would take on rotors.
I doubt any would take on rotors.
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Understood.
Yes, for S owners its almost exclusively an unsprung/rotating mass thing. The brakes are plenty good for normal, spirited, and emergency braking.
Tesla in Long Island will not. Silly really.
The stock pads are weak. They really should allow some non-factory upgrades to allow for safer modifications.
IMHO.
Best,
T
I had a vehicle with aluminum (or something similar) brake rotors on it. If any of the members here ever owned a Rav4-EV they had them also. They were very light weight and the rotor and hat were a one piece design. I bought a spare set for the car as I was worried that they might be hard to get after the vehicle went out of production as they were specific to the EV. I remember that during the design of the EV model, Toyota was trying to maximize the vehicle range and one of the things was to reduce the rotational mass in the driveline---therefore the lightweight rotors. The rotor surface was extremely hard---after 40K miles there was no wear or marks on the surface. The factory pads caused the rotors to squeak on many owners cars but someone found that changing to a different pad (Raybestos quiet stop II) eliminated the problem. As they were aluminum, there was no painted surface on the hat section to deal with and no corrosion either. Tesla engineering should find out how those rotors were made and look into that type of design to address several problems at one time.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Reading through the Roadster 3.0 blog post, I don't see enough information to answer this question - only enough information to cause the question to arise: will Roadster 3.0 package changes be effected by the presence of the custom rotors we're looking at doing?
Of course it gets simple if it's a package deal and we can pick and choose the pieces we want. I don't have an answer - only a detail that I plan to keep an eye on as we get more details.
Of course it gets simple if it's a package deal and we can pick and choose the pieces we want. I don't have an answer - only a detail that I plan to keep an eye on as we get more details.
I was thinking the same thing. Don't know what to expect from Tesla, they mentioned that they're reducing drag from the braking but have no mention of an improvement with its performance when its used for braking. If it was the big brake upgrade they were working on over a year ago, I would think for sure they'd mention that it greatly enhances the stopping characteristics too.
Changing the rotors should not have any effect on the warranty. If anything it helps out the car, less heat transferred to the wheel bearing since the hat is aluminum. Cast will transfer the heat more directly to the wheel bearing, and heat dries out grease then kills the bearing. I've had it happen before on a Mercedes. Never will I buy that crappy car again unless its the forever living Classic! 1999 E300 Turbo Diesel. Wheel bearings didn't have enough grease, at 80k miles one side dried out, catastrophic failure, and completely and left me stranded in the middle of no-where. Called a friend to take me home, next day had to bring my air tools and grinder to cut the inner race of the bearing that was welded onto the front axle due to the intense heat. Cleaned it up, put a new bearing on and away I went. Was a Japanese bearing on a German car. The Japanese don't know how to make bearings, Germans do. But for some reason I presume saving a few cents, Mercedes (partly owned by Chrysler) put Japanese bearings in. Anyways, pulled off the opposite wheel and the grease was so minimal that it heated up and dried out. Hence why the other side failed was my conclusion. Too much grease is bad, not enough grease is really bad. There has to be enough in there for the known heat generated so it does not dry up and damage the bearing. When your wheel does not spin, and nobody is around, you really start to think about a proper design and also how many other people are out there stuck in this condition, possibly worse, over an over looked spec and QA evaluation.
But as we know with Tesla, each service center is different. Some are very cool and understand cars very well as well as the dynamics of them. Others go by the "Tesla" book. So best thing to do is ask someone you know well there.
Also will be going over to my friend's place who has the previous "unreleased" Tesla brake upgrade to take a gander at it. I believe its a dual piston front caliper. I don't recall if they did anything to the rear calipers which I feel it needs it more there than the front. Also don't know if its a drilled or slotted rotor, most likely they did drilled.
I still want to move forward with these rotors, and those who don't want to commit and go in I understand. Just let me know via a PM and I'll remove you off the list. From the performance I've seen from slots this should clean up the braking very well and what I feel is safe and to what the Roadster can demand in all weather conditions. I'll also get some details from Dave the fabricator about the before and after performance from Elise enthusiasts who're running them. We should see a better outcome since we're trying to stop more weight than the Elise and that's the area where slots work very well at. And if we want to move to a bigger front caliper that's dual piston that should be doable as well. There's a bracket for the Elise that allows this.
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I remain committed to these rotors. If there is another caliper option, please PM me the information or post it here. I HATE THE TESLA STOCK BRAKES!!! THEY ARE UNSAFE IN SUCH A FAST AND HIGH END CAR!!!
Thanks Tobash!
Also added Roadster08 to the list.
Special Thanks to Adiggs who took his time to meetup with Dave the Fabricator who needed to measure the rotors for the project. Will update once we get new status.
Also added Roadster08 to the list.
Special Thanks to Adiggs who took his time to meetup with Dave the Fabricator who needed to measure the rotors for the project. Will update once we get new status.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Oh the sacrifice, driving out into the hills and through the twisty bits, to meet up with Dave and talk about Roadsters
Happy to help, and from the conversation we had while Dave was measuring things out, I think it was important for him to see a Roadster and the braking system in person (even if a whole bunch of the conversation was him educating me!)
Fabrizio
Member
Adiggs/Wiztecy: Do you have the measurements of the rotors? From trying to find an aftermarket replacement rotor, I believe there is the possibility that the Roadster uses the same rotors as a Saab 9-3 or Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Skye. These have a 5x110mm bolt pattern and Brembo has a nice online catalog with dimensions of all their available rotors. Another possibility is the Opel Speedster. I have included a diagram of the rotors for a Speedster to see all the measurements that Brembo has.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Hi Fabrizio, I don't have the measurements, but David - the fabricator Wiztecy has been working with - got a whole pile of measurements from the rotors on my Roadster earlier in the week. The only one I remember is that 5x110 bolt pattern and how unusual seeming that was to him (so he remeasured at least 3 times to confirm).
I suspect that you spotting something in the wild with the same measurements, along with the rest of this technical drawing might be of help to David.
The characteristics we're targeting with the custom rotors are:
a) substantial lower rotational mass due to the aluminum hats - this will improve the Roadster's ability to accelerate, brake, and add overall efficiency which in theory should improve range. Handling also should show improvement. How much? We'll have to find out for ourselves, but these are all the benefits of lowering rotational mass at the wheels/rotors.
b) slotted disc design - better braking in the rain as well as a true way of expelling brake dust from the pad
c) Due to the 2 piece design with the cast rotor ring and inner aluminum hat, heat is evenly distributed and with that heat dissipates faster. Also less chance of the rotor of warping.
d) putting the cast discs into a special treatment to make them corrosion resistant so rust is very minimal when its raining - copying the Volt process
David who's the fabricator is also looking into other options to increase braking, he's doing some research to see if larger pads can be used on the Elise calipers, etc... I'll see what he comes back with.
Interesting enough, there's lots of brake rotor and "big brake" options available for the Elise, however many hardcore guys racing the Elise from the Lotus forum asked David to make these rotors for them and have been very happy with them. So following their footsteps I feel very comfortable this will be a choice where we'll see great results without a big brake uprade.
I don't think we need to go crazy with a big brake on the Roadster for street driving since the Carbotechs work great, it just needs one more notch better so the Roadster can stop safely in the rain and also to be consistent in braking when the Roadster is driven in a spirited manner.
Earlier on I looked at EBC slotted rotors, the guy was helpful and said if I sent him measurements of the rotor he'll cross-reference to see what cars they match up to for both the front and rear. Although they're slotted rotors at a very inexpensive price, I just wasn't sold on them. I don't know if the Saab 9-5, Opel, or other cars have a wide variety of high performance rotors. I don't think there is, I tried doing a quick search and didn't find anything all too exciting.
a) substantial lower rotational mass due to the aluminum hats - this will improve the Roadster's ability to accelerate, brake, and add overall efficiency which in theory should improve range. Handling also should show improvement. How much? We'll have to find out for ourselves, but these are all the benefits of lowering rotational mass at the wheels/rotors.
b) slotted disc design - better braking in the rain as well as a true way of expelling brake dust from the pad
c) Due to the 2 piece design with the cast rotor ring and inner aluminum hat, heat is evenly distributed and with that heat dissipates faster. Also less chance of the rotor of warping.
d) putting the cast discs into a special treatment to make them corrosion resistant so rust is very minimal when its raining - copying the Volt process
David who's the fabricator is also looking into other options to increase braking, he's doing some research to see if larger pads can be used on the Elise calipers, etc... I'll see what he comes back with.
Interesting enough, there's lots of brake rotor and "big brake" options available for the Elise, however many hardcore guys racing the Elise from the Lotus forum asked David to make these rotors for them and have been very happy with them. So following their footsteps I feel very comfortable this will be a choice where we'll see great results without a big brake uprade.
I don't think we need to go crazy with a big brake on the Roadster for street driving since the Carbotechs work great, it just needs one more notch better so the Roadster can stop safely in the rain and also to be consistent in braking when the Roadster is driven in a spirited manner.
Earlier on I looked at EBC slotted rotors, the guy was helpful and said if I sent him measurements of the rotor he'll cross-reference to see what cars they match up to for both the front and rear. Although they're slotted rotors at a very inexpensive price, I just wasn't sold on them. I don't know if the Saab 9-5, Opel, or other cars have a wide variety of high performance rotors. I don't think there is, I tried doing a quick search and didn't find anything all too exciting.
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Fabrizio
Member
The Roadster was engineered with a lot of off-the-shelf parts. With GM's relationship with Lotus, it is not surprising to find GM parts on the Roadster. I had confirmed that the bolt pattern for the rotors and wheels is 5 x 110mm. In doing a internet search I found that the Cadillac Catera, Chevy Cobolt/HHR/Malibu, Pontiac G5/G6/Solstice, Opel Speedster, Saab 9-3/9-5/900/900S and Saturn Astra/Aura/L/LW/Skye all have the same bolt pattern.
On another post, the diameter of the rotors are listed as 300mm front and 310mm rear. AP Racing made the OEM rotors/calipers/pads on the Roadster and they make 2 piece racing rotors in the 300/310 mm diameters (slotted, drilled & slotted/drilled). Here is a diagram of the 300mm rotor with dimensions.
If David can share the measurements he took from Adiggs' Roadster, it would help locate the sourced part for the rotors and then from there, we may be able to find replacement parts that meet our performance needs and save us money (such as these).
Of course, who knows what new changes to the brakes for 3.0 will entail.
On another post, the diameter of the rotors are listed as 300mm front and 310mm rear. AP Racing made the OEM rotors/calipers/pads on the Roadster and they make 2 piece racing rotors in the 300/310 mm diameters (slotted, drilled & slotted/drilled). Here is a diagram of the 300mm rotor with dimensions.
If David can share the measurements he took from Adiggs' Roadster, it would help locate the sourced part for the rotors and then from there, we may be able to find replacement parts that meet our performance needs and save us money (such as these).
Of course, who knows what new changes to the brakes for 3.0 will entail.
The AP Racing 2 piece rotors for the VX220 are a direct fit. They come in several sizes. http://www.vx220parts.com/products/category/2/braking-systems/
This whole thread about custom making something that already exists from the OE supplier puzzles me. The Lotus guys might want to save a couple hundred bucks, but I think most Roadster owners want OE parts.
FYI -you can buy a set of four (yes FOUR) generic Centric 308 mm slotted rotors from Ebay for $181 shipped. The rear are a direct fit (the loss of 2mm dia. is of no concern as the rear pads are 1mm from the edge already, as is the 1mm thickness). Just install a 3/16 washer under each front caliper bolt and you're done-instant wet weather brakes. I take the AWD STI if I need to go out in the rain, so the damp/rusty brakes problem never bothers me.
This whole thread about custom making something that already exists from the OE supplier puzzles me. The Lotus guys might want to save a couple hundred bucks, but I think most Roadster owners want OE parts.
FYI -you can buy a set of four (yes FOUR) generic Centric 308 mm slotted rotors from Ebay for $181 shipped. The rear are a direct fit (the loss of 2mm dia. is of no concern as the rear pads are 1mm from the edge already, as is the 1mm thickness). Just install a 3/16 washer under each front caliper bolt and you're done-instant wet weather brakes. I take the AWD STI if I need to go out in the rain, so the damp/rusty brakes problem never bothers me.
I was considering this set http://www.vx220parts.com/products/show/21/1498/full-brake-upgrade-package/ for the Speedster/VX220, but I think I will wait for the 3.0 spec and price first.
