Cybertruck and the Baja 1000

[JRP3]

This guy near me has built two battery trailers from Tesla packs, one with a camper on top

 

[Discoducky]

I've been to the Baja 1000. I'd be interested in hearing more about how you think it would be more competitive. The Boot idea is that they would just swap the storage tank which should take a few minutes. I'd have to imagine charging will take much longer. And, also, don't you think the lack of suspension travel on the Cybertruck would be a massive disadvantage?

p.s. As a former Tesla employee can you tell me. Is it possible to charge while driving? Let's just say, hypothetically, that I was driving across the country quickly and removed the charge port cover. What would happen if a Cybertruck pulled up next to a moving vehicle and [somehow] plugged in. Would it charge? Would the driving car suddenly be put into park? Any thoughts on this?

Not possible to do that but it's always possible to modify. What you are suggesting wouldn't make much of an advantage I feel as the weight would be an issue.

 

[JRP3]

Also since he is boasting to build a special vehicle with huge hydrogen tanks for extended range than I find it perfectly acceptable for Elon to add more batteries to give the Cybertruck 2000 miles of range. Anyone can just add more fuel. The Cybertruck has the hauling capacity.

The 500 mile EPA rated Cyber might get 200 miles at race speeds so it would need 5 times the stock pack size to make the full 1000 miles of range. I don't think 2k miles is even close to possible.

 

[phantasms]

Yeah I don't think the Roadster would do well pulling a trailer of batteries. Interesting though. So, for now, the all time cross country record is off the table. Having to charge half as much, and quicker each time, it should be a leisurely pace to beat the current record.

 

[Discoducky]

Not sure of your point. I've seen the races, I know how long it would take to stop and charge a Cybertruck vs not stopping for the hydrogen truck, if it's as he claims.

OFFICIAL Overall Finish Results – 2016 SCORE Baja 1000 – SCORE Race Info
I think are assumptions are just different and that ok.
The currently fictional hydrogen truck would have to refuel or it would be too heavy to be competitive IMO. Watching races it is easy to see that engineering is what keeps cars in races and drivers win them. I'd bet Tesla engineering against hydrogen anything as it is inherently more efficient and effective.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah I don't think the Roadster would do well pulling a trailer of batteries.

Actually a streamlined trailer shaped to fit the rear of the Roadster would probably do quite well in highway driving.

 

[callmesam]

I'm very interested in this topic and hoping all discussion can be contained here.

Couple of things:

I'd be interested in donating to a team to helping build a team. I'm a Tech Product manager and former Tesla employee.

To do the race it would seems that a few superchargers would be needed as well as power packs. The usual suspension upgrades and spare parts on at least two support trucks. 3 drivers for a A, B and C team. While I doubt Tesla would officially support an independent team, I'd hope to get some help. I know of a few possible drivers and many vehicle engineers could be contacted for assistance.

Zach and Jesse at Now You Know sponsored a Model 3 up Pike's Peak. This is something they might be interested in sponsoring if you can figure out the charging.

 

[hobbes]

I think the Extreme E is the kind of car that would be more like it for Baja:

Extreme E Electric Racing Series Unveils Format, 2021 Launch

 

[Sudre]

The 500 mile EPA rated Cyber might get 200 miles at race speeds so it would need 5 times the stock pack size to make the full 1000 miles of range. I don't think 2k miles is even close to possible.

Hydrogen won't make the distance either then. It also uses more fuel the faster you go, everything does. If they can cram 2 tons of hydrogen tanks in for 1000 miles a range then Elon can cram in the batteries. What's with your exactness. Obviously I was exaggerating about the 2000 miles of EPA range. LOL. The EPA isn't rating for racing...LOL. ALSO if you are insisting on "stock packs" then that Baja Hydrogen vehicle better use Toyota's stock tanks and fuel cells.... since stock parts are required in your book.

When throwing batteries in the back of the Cyber for added range, just swap those batteries at the next pit stop. This is racing right? so make a Cyber racer battery system. It's not like a Stock Car race is everything typical for stock cars. I never had a pit crew at the gas station waiting on me with my "stock" car. I bet Elon could make a battery pack to set in the back of Cyber with a fork truck (or even self installing). The pack could plug into the charge port with a right angle flat plug, add in some software to pull in the DC relay and power straight off that pack.... and yes it would require a very complicated DC charge controller to provide power from the swap battery to the vehicle in this manner. Unplug and swap in 30 seconds at the pit stop. Yes it's very complicated because the pack dynamics would have to match the permanent pack dynamics but it could be done. Probably only Tesla could do it because I imagine only Tesla knows it's main pack well enough.

I have a funny feeling all the racers at the Baja1000 are stopping for fuel, even if it's out of a gas can, but for some reason EVs are not being allowed?
Does the Baja1000 have categories like other races? Like, modified vehicles and factory stock vehicles? If you are insisting on a factory stock Cyber then it would not be allowed to race in the modified vehicle class with 1000 miles of hydrogen range that is not built at any factory and obviously not stock. If we are going to talk modified then with budget and the time I am sure something the Cyber can be modified... particularly on the battery swapping side.... and a lot cheaper than the Frankenstein hydrogen bomb waiting on a roller over to take out the whole race. Just because EV racers require battery swapping does not mean BEVs are not suited. in the real world, no one races. Racing is a fun way to show ingenuity, endurance and advancements. One day someone will actually try to build a BEV for racing currently IMO no one (at all) is. Probably because they don't have the budget.

Other than that I am not actually interested in racing. Racing is ALL OUT. It is fine to burn fuels to accomplish the goal. The world is not going to end because the Indy 500 or Baja1000 burned some carbon. Good for them, have fun. I plan on continuing to have camp fires because I like them. We can burn some carbon and still end global warming. When racing comes to Mars or the moon or some asteroid, I would love to see those gas cars compete. You build to race for the environment you are in. In that since you are right.

 

[phantasms]

FWIW The Baja Boot won as a Class 2. Here's the documents on it. Class 2 – SCORE Race Info

They would probably have to make an experimental class and I'm certain they would. SCORE is very cool and chill.

P.S. A funny aspect of all this is the fact that Jim also races cars at the Nurburgring. The driver who drove the Plaid S on the Nurburgring is one of his drivers.

See the uniform. "SCGCars"

 

[JRP3]

since stock parts are required in your book

I never said nor implied that but the simple fact is the volume and weight required for racing 1K miles on a charge in the Cyber isn't possible at this time. Swapping is a possibility but I'm assuming the Cyber will use the integrated floor/cell technology so swapping would be impossible. I suppose they could setup a system that bypassed the integrated pack when depleted and switch to only using swappable packs in the bed.
The hydrogen vehicle has an advantage in that it would be a custom one off and could basically be a rolling hydrogen tank. It's really a silly challenge to begin with since the vehicles have no relation to one another.

 

[mspohr]

The 500 mile EPA rated Cyber might get 200 miles at race speeds so it would need 5 times the stock pack size to make the full 1000 miles of range. I don't think 2k miles is even close to possible.

Looks like the average speed is about 50 mph so shouldn't take too much range.
Lots of room in the back of the Cybertruck for extra batteries.

 

[Sudre]

I never said nor implied that but the simple fact is the volume and weight required for racing 1K miles on a charge in the Cyber isn't possible at this time. Swapping is a possibility but I'm assuming the Cyber will use the integrated floor/cell technology so swapping would be impossible. I suppose they could setup a system that bypassed the integrated pack when depleted and switch to only using swappable packs in the bed.
The hydrogen vehicle has an advantage in that it would be a custom one off and could basically be a rolling hydrogen tank. It's really a silly challenge to begin with since the vehicles have no relation to one another.

My final point at the end was to just skip carbon made hydrogen and stick with other carbon base fuels. You know as well as I do they will NOT make hydrogen from green things when it can be achieved cheaper from other carbon intense methods. For racing it is wise to use the most power possible for the least cubic inches most of the time.

As far as hydrogen. IF it is supposed to be such a great fantastic fuel then why does Toyota's fool cell car have less storage space than it's equivalent Toyota car? Because hydrogen actually takes more space per HP than BEVs. Remember a fool cell is just a charger for the batteries. Fool cell vehicles are BEVs with fool cells added to shrink the battery size. A fool cell can not put out 200kW+ for the acceleration needed in racing. What is the 0-60 of the Toyota Mirage? ROTFLMAO... 10 SECONDS. Yah fool cells are the race car of the future.

 

[LN1_Casey]

I think it'd be a very interesting experiment. Since the batteries charge so much quicker at lower charge rate, it may be productive to have more frequent stops than just one or two to get the distance, and as such may need more assistant drivers. If there were a few mobile teams, it'd be possible, if they had a Super charger set up and a Mega pack on the back, they could strategically go to various distances to top off the cybertruck, then go to somewhere with grid access and recharge themselves.

 

[JRP3]

My final point at the end was to just skip carbon made hydrogen and stick with other carbon base fuels. You know as well as I do they will NOT make hydrogen from green things when it can be achieved cheaper from other carbon intense methods. For racing it is wise to use the most power possible for the least cubic inches most of the time.

As far as hydrogen. IF it is supposed to be such a great fantastic fuel then why does Toyota's fool cell car have less storage space than it's equivalent Toyota car? Because hydrogen actually takes more space per HP than BEVs. Remember a fool cell is just a charger for the batteries. Fool cell vehicles are BEVs with fool cells added to shrink the battery size. A fool cell can not put out 200kW+ for the acceleration needed in racing. What is the 0-60 of the Toyota Mirage? ROTFLMAO... 10 SECONDS. Yah fool cells are the race car of the future.

Why do you think I'm in any way suggesting that fuel cells are practical for general transportation? I'm simply talking about the specifics of this one challenge. You're going a bit off topic here.

 

[JRP3]

Looks like the average speed is about 50 mph so shouldn't take too much range.
Lots of room in the back of the Cybertruck for extra batteries.

The terrain alone will cause a huge loss of efficiency. Average speed doesn't tell you anything if it's from slow speeds digging through sand or mud.

 

[ThomasD]

You can't just run the baja 1000. You have to qualify for it first.

 

[ThomasD]

I think he should go for it Race the Desert

 

[LN1_Casey]

You can't just run the baja 1000. You have to qualify for it first.

Well, if we did, it would allow a test of concept before the big one.

 

[dakh]

Looks like the average speed is about 50 mph so shouldn't take too much range.
Lots of room in the back of the Cybertruck for extra batteries.

Average speed has very little to do with energy consumption. I would be very surprised if you can get more than 20% of highway range at race place in Baja. Sand and loose ground sap a lot of energy, so do repeated max power accelerations.

Just for reference, performance model3 is using about a quarter of its battery life in 10-15 minutes of track driving.

It will be a long while before Baja style race with 500+ mile stages is possible, unless there's rapid battery swaps or mandatory stops with super fast charging along the way.

You can think of this along the same lines as rockets. Takes a certain energy density and specific energy to get to orbit and batteries are not even close. Same with long distance races.

Note the link to e-race series above. Their stages are 5 miles, not 500+. 5 miles! It is essentially a series of sprint races, and extremely short ones even for sprints.

It is hard for non-racers to understand, but racing is totally different from street driving and any comparisons are not that useful.