Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time

[navguy12]

It isn't used but it isn't bypassed either.

I did not know that,,thanks.

 

[Elmexiken]

This was a marathon reading this....

OP, you'd really benefit from an app that tracks charges. You'd be able to provide Tesla, and anyone else, with actual, data driven evidence. TeslaFi is the most popular, but really any of them will do at this point.

I hope you figure out what your issue is. Please, keep us updated on what the outcome is.

 

[Asicfoo]

I don’t understand why this is so confusing. Tesla states “unlimited mile battery” but then says they won’t cover degradation from usage. Fine, but then I would demand to know what the differentiation is between degradation and failure and I would not accept arbitration decisions on a case by case basis. Demand in writing a percentage of loss to the range that is where the issue becomes a failure, and then post that statement here for all us owners to see. If they refuse, pay a lawyer to draft the request on your behalf, it’ll cost a couple hundred bucks, but I believe you’d be surprised at their willingness to resolve the issue at that point.

Anyway, I want to know what Tesla defines as degradation and what is a failure. It’s hard to understand the long term expense without knowing this.

 

[DrDabbles]

Tesla states “unlimited mile battery” but then says they won’t cover degradation from usage.

In case anybody's curious in what Tesla actually says about the Model 3 battery warranty, from Vehicle Warranty

Model 3 with Standard or Mid-Range Battery - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

 

[mspohr]

In case anybody's curious in what Tesla actually says about the Model 3 battery warranty, from Vehicle Warranty

That seems simple and straightforward and it should be easy to measure.
This thread has had a lot of obfuscation and outrage over something that should be simple so there are probably personal factors at work here with unrealistic expectations.

 

[DrDabbles]

That seems simple and straightforward and it should be easy to measure.
This thread has had a lot of obfuscation and outrage over something that should be simple so there are probably personal factors at work here with unrealistic expectations.

There have been a few of these very long threads I've been part of here, and the overwhelming majority of them have had a simple initial cause. The owner doesn't know or understand something, they don't look for what they don't know, and Tesla has generally done a not great job at providing consumers information.

In the case of claiming Tesla warrants their batteries forever, that was obviously not right because no auto manufacturer has a forever warranty. They publish their warranty info right on their site, and that's no problem. In other cases I've seen, the information has been in the manual and the new owner hasn't bothered to read it.

But in the case of this thread, Tesla offers very little technical information about their charger network and what types of speeds you can expect under what conditions, and what factors will lead to the charger itself charging more slowly. There are hundreds of anecdotes, but no hard facts from Tesla. Meanwhile, the original poster has an answer in his mind that must be the root cause. His battery is defective. But what he doesn't seem to realize is that a defective battery would also show up in missing range, cells with low voltage, missing cells from the BMS's data, and so on. Again, Tesla could demystify this for new owners that maybe don't fully understand how their car works, and how a technician can remotely see that all cells are present, charge is balanced, and there are no problems with getting energy into the pack.

Being the most popular EV brand on earth is a blessing and a curse.

 

[davidc18]

I didn't read the entire thread, but filing a lemon law complaint for any reason is very easy and straight forward. If you feel your car has an issue(s) and Tesla is not addressing it, there is no reason not to file. The rules vary by state of course, but in Florida, if you review all of the Tesla complaints on file with the states attorney general, the results are overwhelmingly in the consumers favor.

 

[Cycle11111]

Taking this as fact. I would drive it down to 10%-15%, plug into a supercharger and then film the screen to show the behavior. Then I would go back to a different SC and show them the video and ask for help. Also not sure if you did it but I would escalate via email and check raise to execs from your Tesla account. Our service experience on our two Teslas varies from amazing to just ok but when shown facts they have always responded well - two examples - replacing the door seals on the FSDs on our MX and replacing the charge port on our M3.

 

[mspohr]

There have been a few of these very long threads I've been part of here, and the overwhelming majority of them have had a simple initial cause. The owner doesn't know or understand something, they don't look for what they don't know, and Tesla has generally done a not great job at providing consumers information.

In the case of claiming Tesla warrants their batteries forever, that was obviously not right because no auto manufacturer has a forever warranty. They publish their warranty info right on their site, and that's no problem. In other cases I've seen, the information has been in the manual and the new owner hasn't bothered to read it.

But in the case of this thread, Tesla offers very little technical information about their charger network and what types of speeds you can expect under what conditions, and what factors will lead to the charger itself charging more slowly. There are hundreds of anecdotes, but no hard facts from Tesla. Meanwhile, the original poster has an answer in his mind that must be the root cause. His battery is defective. But what he doesn't seem to realize is that a defective battery would also show up in missing range, cells with low voltage, missing cells from the BMS's data, and so on. Again, Tesla could demystify this for new owners that maybe don't fully understand how their car works, and how a technician can remotely see that all cells are present, charge is balanced, and there are no problems with getting energy into the pack.

Being the most popular EV brand on earth is a blessing and a curse.

It seems the owner is fixed on the idea that he has a defective battery and wants a new one. However, the sketchy information provided isn't clear. He may have a charger problem or is just confused. I believe Tesla has investigated his car and found no problem but the owner doesn't want to hear that and seems convinced they are acting in bad faith. Not my experience in my four years.

 

[D.E.]

Sorry folks I dropped off this thread for a little while. I appreciate the positive comments from people that actually read the issues. I am currently working on building a very solid case here. Using a 2nd Model 3 (2 weeks apart production same LR RWD) in the same stalls with same SOC and all other controllable variables to demonstrate that no matter what I do I get much slower charge rate. I do not want to reply much because some people are quite uneducated here or they are trolling on behalf of Tesla. I want nothing more but for Tesla to succeed and for my car to be trouble free but that doesn't mean I should swallow their nonsense.

I don't want to go and quote a few people here but a few folks were stating that I am all wrong when I look at the charge rate and instead stated that I should be looking at miles/hour being added. That was the most obnoxious thing I had read in quite awhile. Using some arbitrary unit to measure something that is measured in actual units. You would not be sitting at a gas pump and counting how many miles per minute you are filling up? Would you? You are paying for liquid in gallons, liters, or whatever else you want to measure liquid in and you should not measure current in miles. It's really off the wall statement.

Another thing is someone giving advice on communication and how one should speak to people that are lying and all that other fun stuff. How to do social engineering and how people will stop helping you if you call them out on their lies. Thank you, Mr. Keyboard Psychologist, lucky for you my spouse is a real one so forgive me if I take your advice with a grain of salt.

While I do not agree with some of you I can appreciate that some of you are skeptical in a professional matter. You are right, this is only my side of the story and while I have no reason to lie on my side I can totally understand your concerns.

I'd further like to restate that I do really enjoy my car and the vision of the company. I don't like their how unethical they are but I suppose to compete in this very unethical industry one must stoop down to their level. I just hate how they advertised no middlemen (dealers) structure and that service department is not supposed to be a profit center but in reality everything is totally different. I do plan to place a deposit for the Model Y once it is announced.

I have a funny story to share. Two cars back I had a Subaru LGT. I recently was cleaning out my garage and discovered I still had a roof rack. I listed it on LGT forum and met up with some guy who picked it up. The guy pulled up and was like hey I used to work at Tesla! I figured somewhere locally in NJ but turns out no he was a shift supervisor in the body shop in Fremont. We chatted for about 30 minutes. This guy had so many stories to tell about how dysfunctional production is and why nothing ever lines up and why the paint sucks. He did state that he left them 1 month prior to Model 3 begging production so perhaps things have changed but he explained to me in great detail why the door on the Model S would not line up and man what an interesting inside that was. The guy apparently used to work at Subaru in Indiana prior to going over to Tesla and said the production tightness and overall the way manufacturing is executed is night and day. Obviously as I stated above it's only 1 side of the story but IMHO this guy had nothing to gain. He pointed out a few things on my car and explained how they are built and where discrepancies come from but again this is an unverified source and his only experience was with body production and paint shop.

Finally, someone here had a very nice long quoted post and decided to throw in his parenting advice. I will read everything you have to say but as soon as you start dishing out parenting advice, whomever you are - the conversation ends right there. I stopped reading right after that. I'm sorry if that offends you but giving strangers parenting advice in my book is plain wrong. Most parents I know tell me the same thing, as soon as someone begins telling them what to do with their child they stop listening or write that person off. Unless you are a pediatrician and you are familiar with my kids and I am there to see you for your expert opinion - we got nothing to discuss. Some new parents end up in ER only a few days after discharge because people like yourself begin telling them what to do or what they are doing wrong and they end up in a panic? Unable to feed their child, and reading into things that are not there. Next time you speak your worthless parenting advice to anyone consider that you are contributing to rising health care cost. Perhaps, it's too much in a Tesla forum but you know...

Hi Vlad,

I’ve read this whole thread.

It seems to me whatever we mention in posts becomes fair game for opinions. If you mention frustration with a child crying, you invite comments about how to make that better. You can ignore them if you want. Every child is different. We had two. The difference is night and day. Advice I’d have given after the first one wouldn’t have worked at all for the second one. It was like starting over. But people here generally are trying to help. The same thing with the lose your cool part. No one is instructing you, they are just offering advice. Some will be good, some not so good. The fact that you have access to professional advice couldn’t have been known by the people trying to help. They are doing the best they can to help, just putting it out there.


I think you may have a charging issue. I certainly am not expert enough to say. If I was to guess, I’d think all cars are probably not identical and if one was to plot, there’d be a bell shaped curve. Two standard deviations from the mean should include 95% of the samples. If that’s the case then how far out does it need to be before Tesla regards it as a substandard performance? I can’t say but there must be someone at Tesla that does know. Maybe what you are seeing lies within the range they consider acceptable. Maybe not. It should perform within the published claims made or they should do what’s necessary to bring it up to that level. I think seeing what other similar vehicles do is good to know but I don’t know that is proof that yours is outside design parameters.

Anyway I cannot tell you what you should do, all I can do is tell you what I might try. If going to a different service center, I might try talking to the service manager there. He will have seen an enormous number of your model of car. He might have insight, is it within normals or outside so need to be brought in line with specifications. Maybe this is a common thing, if so maybe there’s insight there. He’d also be able to tell you what the next step would be if the car doesn’t conform to promises made at the time of purchase.

So why do I post this? I think it is because the people here are generally very intelligent and extremely helpful. Not all of them, some have their own loads of baggage. Generally those are their loads, not mine. I’ve got enough baggage without taking on theirs as well. Overall, though, these people are experienced, knowledgeable, and very helpful.

Anyway, you have an interesting issue. I’d like to see how it all works out.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I'll provide a short contribution to this thread as others have pretty much summed up what options remain.

The worse kind of customer is one who dictates the solution to their problem to professionals. Professionals want to solve the problem - it's what they do. Professionals do not want the solution dictated to them from an amateur. Professionals will spend more time proving the amateur wrong then solving the problem because they weren't asked to solve anything - it was already done for them and usually incorrectly. This isn't a Tesla thing - this is a human thing. Helpdesk, IT, plumbing, electrical, and yes, car service.

Perhaps explaining the symptoms and requesting they provide a solution will lead to a positive outcome. Regardless of the method you choose to get a resolution, I hope you get one soon and spend your time enjoying your car instead of being dissatisfied.