Supercharger bypasses the onboard charger as the onboard charger is a AC-DC converter. The contractors flip and pass the current straight to the pack. Superchargers are DC chargers.
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Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time
- Thread starter vadimr
- Start date
I most certainly want to keep the car! I just want to be able to use supercharger like everyone else. My brother has a Model 3 which is even 2 weeks older than mine and he never experienced these issues. His supercharging experience is slightly more limited than mine since he did not take as many road trips as I have. However he had gotten a charge rate of around 100kW for about 10 minutes the few times he had charged.
That bulletin is very interesting. I always get a little less than advertised range but I always assumed it is normal. I usually get around 270-280 to a charge on a trip.
Not sure what you are implying with the statement where you say I worked with batteries for years. I clearly state I am hobbyist and have experience as a hobbyist with LiPos and also clearly stated I am not sure how it applies to Lithium Ion used in Teslas.
P.S: NJ Lemon law is 24 months or 24,000 miles.
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Ok, then something is wrong. I'd highly suggest using some type of logging to get your supercharger curve so you have some hard data to send to Tesla. TeslaFi has a 2 week trial period (double if you use referral) and I'm sure there is other software that could do the same.
This was sad to read. I'm not sure but I think you as an owner are required to have the car in for a certain number of times and over a certain time period. You should look into that. Did you order your car at this store on Day 1? Anyone there like a store manager (not service) you can talk to? I get the bullshit comment and while that guy might have felt it was offensive it does describe perfectly when someone is told one thing when the answer given is really made up or let's come out and say is a lie.
So if there is some balancing issues, can't the car's battery be rebalanced by fully charging and then letting it get low again and doing it several times. Thought I read something like this on the forum. Do you typically charge to a certain level most of the time? Do you plug in and charge every night or only when you are getting low on SOC? I ask so that others who might be having a similar issue can better understand the situation.
I would try escalating the issue through other channels. Forgot how that is done. Clearly this guy you had to work with won't be of any help.
So if there is some balancing issues, can't the car's battery be rebalanced by fully charging and then letting it get low again and doing it several times. Thought I read something like this on the forum. Do you typically charge to a certain level most of the time? Do you plug in and charge every night or only when you are getting low on SOC? I ask so that others who might be having a similar issue can better understand the situation.
I would try escalating the issue through other channels. Forgot how that is done. Clearly this guy you had to work with won't be of any help.
No I was wrong to say bullshit. That he is right about, I'm sorry but I agree with him on that. He was just doing his job and that is either what his manager said to do or corporate culture. If I was in his place I'd say the same to me. I was talking to my wife after and I told her I was more pissed at myself for saying that than the fact that they treated me like that.
I usually have my charge rate set to 70%, car is always garaged. I don't charge every single day but every other day or so. I try to never let it go below 30%. Again, I am not too familiar with the chemistry in these packs but LiPos have an ideal life between 30% and 70% so I try to keep this Li-on in the same range. I researched that before and had found supporting evidence about that. I charged the car to full capacity only a like 2-3 times when I was going on a long road-trip and was trying to avoid supercharging an extra time.
This actually reminds me, the very first time I charged my car to 100% the car threw an error and the charger and port turned red and an error message appeared saying something is wrong with the battery and before I could do anything about the message was gone. That was on June 1, 2018 when we were about to set off for our first road-trip. I totally forgot about that until you asked the question above.
The bulletin that was linked here is really bothering me because I never do get 310 miles in my car. I always seem to have reduced range. I contributed it to weather but perhaps that is accurate.
I'm only learning about EVs and batteries since we bought our MS in 2017. But I do wonder if by charging to only 70% you've in effect told the battery that's the high range of the battery so conditioned it to a lower range. I charge my Model 3 to 90% generally after seeing Elon's tweet about that a little while back. Don't try to let it get below 60 miles range and only been in the yellow a few times. However I've only Supercharged once so far as we have home charging (which I do as needed not daily) and for longer trips we've taken our Model S where we have used Supercharging. Should be lots of people who can chime in on this battery issue however. Will be following. Our Model S hasn't always had high charge rates this past year we've noticed and I think lately been in that same 70 range. I'll ask my husband what he's noticed, but like you, you kind of wonder if it's just the particular Supercharger stall you're at and pass it off. He generally only charges to 80% and we've only touched on talking about a need to balance a few times.
Just called Tesla, my build date is May 9th, 2018 so it falls into that SB but he checked and it was not listed under my VIN so no joy there.
That could be part of your problem. There is a bug in the BMS that causes estimates to be wrong when you only charge to 70%. I don't know if it would impact Supercharging or not.
Try setting the normal charge to 90%.
When I supercharge I always have it set to 90%. I don't supercharger unless its a road trip and there I am always going for 90%. I change between 70-80% depending on my expected usage. I never get the full charge rate.
Until it is fixed you should have your daily charge set above 80%. I would set it to 90 for a while and see if it gets better. You should charge to 100% to so you know what the full range is reported as.
We really need to know what it reports for range when you charge to 100%. That will tell us a lot. (Or even what it says when you charge to 90%.)
Look at this tweet to see what daily charging to 70% did to one person: LikeTesla on Twitter
I couldn't agree more! But you have to put this in perspective - most do better. They kept telling me they are not getting error codes thus they cannot help me. The problem that the people working at service centers are not software engineers. They don't understand that for an error code to show up one has to be programmed. They think they are magic. So if we break this down it comes down to thresholds, say the developer that wrote that module put that error is only triggered if event X occurs. Let's say that event X is internal resistance of Y or higher. However if the value is Y+(Y*0.01) the alert is not triggered. That's it.
I will do a graph, they topped my car off at 90% so I can't do much until it drops. I'll get TeslaFi installed and find an optimal day and hit up the supercharger in the middle of the night when it's empty.
I'll give my family attorney a buzz tomorrow to see if he has any experience with Lemon Law in NJ. Won't cost me a dime to ask. I looked over the paperwork it's pretty darn good consumer protection law in NJ!
You thought about filming your car then your friends car at the same supercharger. If it shows it going to 113kW then dropping to 60kW in under a minute - that's evidence. Make sure to show that no other car is plugged into the other A/B stall. Wouldn't even expect that slow a speed (in the 15-60%) from the short-range unreleased version!
Film it a few times to show it's not a one-off. Ask Tesla if you preferred for you to post it to youtube if they won't listen ? Contact some of the other youtube channels?
That doesn't tell you anything without knowing that the temperature of the battery in each car is the same. (Which would be less of an issue in the summer.)
Not trying to defend the service center here, but I think I know what they meant when they said 100F was needed for max charge (and I don't think that fact applies to your situation, OP).
You don't need ambient temps to be 100F to charge; the battery needs to be warmed to around that temp to accept max charge. He's basically trying to convince you that when you pulled into a supercharger, your battery is not warmed up from enough driving, and the SC was limiting the charge rate. If that were really the case, I don't think you'd see that spike initially in charge rate. Also, even if your battery temp is still only 60F, you should still be getting very close to the max charge. We're talking freezing or below where there's significant reduction in charge speeds (if you have limited regen, you have limited supercharging).
You don't need ambient temps to be 100F to charge; the battery needs to be warmed to around that temp to accept max charge. He's basically trying to convince you that when you pulled into a supercharger, your battery is not warmed up from enough driving, and the SC was limiting the charge rate. If that were really the case, I don't think you'd see that spike initially in charge rate. Also, even if your battery temp is still only 60F, you should still be getting very close to the max charge. We're talking freezing or below where there's significant reduction in charge speeds (if you have limited regen, you have limited supercharging).
I agree you should video as much as you can and send it to your service advisor via email. That is all supporting evidence and helps them try and fix your issue. I just glanced at the NJ consumer rights doc posted by tesla and I think you need to start the process by certified letter notification. Then there are certain thresholds Tesla needs to meet in order for you to qualify for lemon law. You also have arbitration in NJ, so look at your MVPA to see the exact language on that. In California you are entered into arbitration by default via the MVPA unless you opt out within 30 days via written notice.
Yes, I will film it again as all I did was take a bunch of screenshots. I do not like threatening people/companies with social media as results are very mixed from those avenues. It is one thing if you are Rich Rebuilds with 400k+ subscribers and it's another when you are just another minion with their poor QC product. This is precisely why I said I am pissed at myself for losing my cool and saying "bullshit", had I been more composed and did not allow my emotions get the better of me I think I could have had a more productive conversation with that person. My life experience had always shown that screaming and stomping your feet does not get you anywhere. This is where I failed and I admit it. The problem is that I am sensitive when people lie to my face and it is pretty much the only time where I can lose my composure. Had I said I do not believe you as I have irrefutable evidence to support my story and dispute your fiction I think I would have gotten a little further. Nevertheless, thank you for advice and I hope to update this thread as I get more information from Tesla and/or my attorney.
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