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Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time
- Thread starter vadimr
- Start date
That happens sometimes. There are half a dozen reasons why it might never go above 100 kw.
Still 1 hr to get to 90% is good. The charge will always be on the slow side if you keep it at 90%.
If time is that big of an issue, 80% is more "efficient" of time spent sitting on s SC.
By working in the 20% - 80% you are working in the range that battery can add miles faster.
Stop obsessing on the Kw.
Still 1 hr to get to 90% is good. The charge will always be on the slow side if you keep it at 90%.
If time is that big of an issue, 80% is more "efficient" of time spent sitting on s SC.
By working in the 20% - 80% you are working in the range that battery can add miles faster.
Stop obsessing on the Kw.
I wish my supercharging curve looked like that! I'm one of those blue dots that's way under the curve at every SOC.
It'll be nice once someone interprets everything on the car's CAN Bus and is able to determine what factors (and their levels) come into play when setting supercharge rate. Right now it's a guessing game with multiple variables. The only definite now is that if the car is cold you're screwed.
It would also be nice if the car was smart enough to pre-conditon the battery for optimal supercharging if you set a supercharger 200 miles away as your destination in the nav.
sperkin
Active Member
Your superchargering rate is similar with my experience and it’s normal.
The supercharger stations can’t get full power to hit 120kw due to electricity strains around it out of their controls. So even when no cars around a max rate could be cut almost half. I had a horrible time last night and only charging at 28kw at 3 different stations. It’s the same SC I used in the past 2 weeks. Finally on a 4th station my rate went up to 72kw. These SCs are rated at 120kw.
You should test at a 120kw SC with no cars at lowest battery possible. The car should go from 10-80% in 40minutes. That’s the advertised rate. Don’t worry about what kw is showing. I always hit that mark even when I’m below 70kw. Seems odd, I think the battery balances itself out so it doesn’t over heat. It goes at different rates to reduce heat.
As for the limited regen this is normal too due to temperature. Pull your max charge rate down to 70%. Anything around 80% at 60 degrees get limited regen. It’s only cosmetics, this type of limited regen is same as normal regen. I get -600khw leaving my house in the morning with or without limited regen message. Only heavy regen, where it stops working like on a full charge is when I don’t hit -600khw.
Don’t worry about the car if service states it’s fine unless you can get to 80% in 40mintues.
The supercharger stations can’t get full power to hit 120kw due to electricity strains around it out of their controls. So even when no cars around a max rate could be cut almost half. I had a horrible time last night and only charging at 28kw at 3 different stations. It’s the same SC I used in the past 2 weeks. Finally on a 4th station my rate went up to 72kw. These SCs are rated at 120kw.
You should test at a 120kw SC with no cars at lowest battery possible. The car should go from 10-80% in 40minutes. That’s the advertised rate. Don’t worry about what kw is showing. I always hit that mark even when I’m below 70kw. Seems odd, I think the battery balances itself out so it doesn’t over heat. It goes at different rates to reduce heat.
As for the limited regen this is normal too due to temperature. Pull your max charge rate down to 70%. Anything around 80% at 60 degrees get limited regen. It’s only cosmetics, this type of limited regen is same as normal regen. I get -600khw leaving my house in the morning with or without limited regen message. Only heavy regen, where it stops working like on a full charge is when I don’t hit -600khw.
Don’t worry about the car if service states it’s fine unless you can get to 80% in 40mintues.
When I started reading this thread I thought I might also have a defective battery. I've only supercharged a few times. Most of the time my starting SOC is in the 35% range and I get 60-70 kW max. The highest I have ever had was a couple of days ago starting with 13 mi of range and charged mostly at 85 kW up to 88 mi of range when I stopped. (outside temp in the 40's, but battery warmer, no one else at charger) From reading responses on the thread, my experience seems pretty normal.
pjoseph
Member
The Austin service center has been EXCELLENT. And so was Tony. Are these reports on the BMW forum?
Electric driving certainly needs a bit of a different mindset. Glad you are enjoying the BMW.
They are not getting error codes, doesn't mean there is no problem.
"My car is only doing 0 to 60 in 9 seconds, twice as slow as advertised"
"Well, but I am not getting any error codes.. so there is no defect"
PJoseph that's very good to hear! These were from Yelpers/Google review people. I guess inevitably you get the outliers in such places? I'm willing to accept a few quality issues, but not wiling to accept people unwilling to help fix them, so that helps relieve some of my biggest worries.
sperkin
Active Member
Your screenshots are normal supercharger speed. It will get to 80% in 40min.
It looks like you are on a shared charger. Are you saying you have never seen your car charge at greater than 100kW for more than a few seconds?
And you are charging at 58kW, so in 1 hour you would gain 77% at constant rate.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
That is nowhere near normal supercharging speed.
If pack temperature is 75F or above and you're not paired with another vehicle that's charging, you should be getting a 115 kW charge rate, and it should be sustained until 40-50% state-of-charge in a Model 3.
I have two Model 3s and a previous Model S 85D. Normal supercharging power draw can always be approximated by calculating:
130 - [State of Charge in %] = kW rate
Model 3's and 100kW packs in Model S/X will do even better than this.
Both of my Model 3's do better than this calculation, and my Model S held pretty well to this calculation.
Getting a 58 kW charge rate with a pack at 17% state of charge would only be considered normal at low or near-freezing temperatures.
gilscales
Banned
It appears from your post that you have not read that OP has been unable to stay above 74 kw charge rate for more than a few seconds so this is not normal supercharging behavior.
Some of my Supercharger curves
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It will never do that. Not even close. It has never stayed above 100 Kw for long. I have not timed it.
It should last longer than 10 seconds though if you started out above 100 Kw.
It goes down quick because your adding at rate of over 500 mph.
You will never see over 100 Kw if SOC is over 50%
Most everything you've said follows the chart that was posted. You'll not on the Red line, but not that far off.
I don't have a lot of warm weather experience but if it sees the pack is to warm it will not charge fast either.
Just because it's 75F doesn't mean what your battery is at. You could have been pushing hard and battery is warm.
Or it was a cold night and warmed up fast, but the battery is not warm yet.
You'd really have to state a lot more parameters to judge if your battery has and issue.
But with what you have shown it's all feasible for "normal" behavior.
We'd all love to see 115 Kw for 40-50%. But that would be double what Tesla claims.
115 Kw is over 500 mph. 50% of a 310 mile range battery is 155 miles.
That would be 155 miles in 18 minutes. Sorry pal, that's not gonna happen.
gilscales
Banned
If you are referring to the 4 charge graphs posted above then yes this is normal supercharging, however, I am not the OP and my car charges normally, I was posting these graphs to show the OP what he SHOULD be getting but is not.
sperkin
Active Member
No, he's expecting to be at 115 Kw for 40-50% of his charge.
I think a Video, with all the current conditions, over night temps, current temps, prior driving and a Video showing empty stalls and it only staying above 100 Kw for a "few seconds" would be helpful.
It does go down pretty quick. That's normal.
I think everything he has shown (as examples of a problem) look normal and still fall into Tesla's claims.
Tesla may imply that you always get 170 miles in 40 minutes. But they don't include the fine print (temperatures, stall occupancy, what range you are charging over).
OP may have an issue, but he has not shown it.
BTW I had posted a thread quite while ago with a similar complaint. Not that I thought my car was broken or talking lemon law.
I was not getting above 60 Kw (empty stalls). It's because I was starting at 40-50% SOC. Once I dropped to 20-30% I started seeing the big Kw. I'm not saying that's case here. There are many reasons it may not go above 100 kw.
It appears once the SC decides how many "Banks" (or what ever they call it) it does not ever add any, if conditions change during the charge. It will take "banks" away if someone pulls up next to you. Or your charge starts getting up there. But it never decides, ooh we can go a lot faster here, lets add some more banks. It decides up front.
I think that's why changing a stall sometimes might help. You could charge for a few minutes, warm the battery, then disconnect and connect again and it may choose a different charge plan, because initial conditions have changed.
I was not getting above 60 Kw (empty stalls). It's because I was starting at 40-50% SOC. Once I dropped to 20-30% I started seeing the big Kw. I'm not saying that's case here. There are many reasons it may not go above 100 kw.
It appears once the SC decides how many "Banks" (or what ever they call it) it does not ever add any, if conditions change during the charge. It will take "banks" away if someone pulls up next to you. Or your charge starts getting up there. But it never decides, ooh we can go a lot faster here, lets add some more banks. It decides up front.
I think that's why changing a stall sometimes might help. You could charge for a few minutes, warm the battery, then disconnect and connect again and it may choose a different charge plan, because initial conditions have changed.
sperkin
Active Member
I will check next time I'm at a SC but with my limited experience it's all random but it fixes itself during the charge to be consistently finished at 80% around 40min.
Sometimes starts high and drops. Sometimes starts slow and its goes up.
From my screenshots below 25min after I started, it's closer to 55%. Another 15min it was around 80%. As you can see, it was slow when less cars was there and it sped up when the SC was full.
However, last night was still horrible Most stations were only doing 28kw. There was an event near by Hawthorne so SC couldn't pull max power to support it.
I took a trip after I got my car and here are some charge numbers..with warm battery from driving...(sorry for the horrible format)
(Outside Temp) (SOC Start) (kw start) (SOC End) (kw End) Time
34 20 113 30 112 4
35 30 116 40 113 4
35 40 116 50 107 10
30 40 86 50 72 4
36 50 107 70 66 11
37 70 66 80 41 18
These weren't all necessarily from the same charging stop. This does show however that staying above 100kw is possible at least for me for up to 18 minutes at least from 20-50% SOC.
We drove a Performance Model 3 from Colorado to Nevada and easily got 116 kW for sustained periods of 15 minutes or more. I've also easily charged at 115 kW for sustained periods driving in Colorado and Kansas in an S 100D.
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