Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time

[vadimr]

Not trying to defend the service center here, but I think I know what they meant when they said 100F was needed for max charge (and I don't think that fact applies to your situation, OP).

You don't need ambient temps to be 100F to charge; the battery needs to be warmed to around that temp to accept max charge. He's basically trying to convince you that when you pulled into a supercharger, your battery is not warmed up from enough driving, and the SC was limiting the charge rate. If that were really the case, I don't think you'd see that spike initially in charge rate. Also, even if your battery temp is still only 60F, you should still be getting very close to the max charge. We're talking freezing or below where there's significant reduction in charge speeds (if you have limited regen, you have limited supercharging).

Correct. Except that we are talking about 150-200 miles non stop road-trip in summer and fall and pulling into a supercharger and still getting a slow charge rate. I even get regen limited message almost every day. For example even this morning with the car being in the garage overnight and the temp inside the garage being around 50F as soon as I got in it, I got the message regen limited. I've seen that message on even days like 60F with SOC being around 60-70%. Often it takes 20-30 miles before those little dots go away and I get full regen. However the times I supercharged I did not have those little dots and it was after a very long 2-3 hour road-trip on nice warm days.

The problem is they have 100 variables they will argue with you about when you present with this issue. Too cold, too hot, busy supercharger, empty supercharge, defective supercharger, poor connection, unstable electricity at supercharger, too low of SOC, too high of SOC, windy, raining and etc.

Another issue is that they probably have very limited diagnostics they can do at the service center when it comes to battery health. I do not know this but I venture to guess it's some nice GUI with a few variables and information if any error codes have been tripped. I highly doubt they have full view into how well they are balanced, what the internal resistance is on per cell or pack of cells basis and what is actually happening when HV is applied to the packs. I am sure engineering to which I was told they would need to escalate this to can actually see this but these guys at the service center have so many cars awaiting service that they can't even fit them on their lot so of course nobody will do that. They simply do not care. My car sat there for 2.5 days before they were even able to pull it into the bay. Also they are cutting spending now, excessive warranty repairs are not in their best interest. I am willing to bet you anything that had I been out of warranty I would have been told that I need to pay for a new battery pack and 28 days of labor to do the replacement.

 

[Common_Loon]

This is precisely the sort of thing which makes me terrified of the prospect of buying a Tesla. I drive a fantastic BMW right now (M235i) and I'm fairly confident I want to order a Model 3 next month, but the quality control issues and the service issues leave me really worried. The Austin location apparently has a terrible service manager named Anthony Martinez who is widely hated in reviews and whose crew leaves cars worse when they leave than when left there. It seems some of the other people at the location are decent, however. My experience with BMW service has been largely fantastic and my car problem free. What would I lose by going this route? Will I get into a situation like the OP is in? I want the electric future and driving experiences, but terrible quality and terrible service managers who are incompetent and apparently not even trained really seem to be a common occurence. I've been haunting these forums for a couple months now, reading every thread, and I can think of no other luxury brand with as many problems on so many fronts. Hopefully and surely they will work to continue to address this. This thread in particular really churns the stomach.

 

[vadimr]

This is precisely the sort of thing which makes me terrified of the prospect of buying a Tesla. I drive a fantastic BMW right now (M235i) and I'm fairly confident I want to order a Model 3 next month, but the quality control issues and the service issues leave me really worried. The Austin location apparently has a terrible service manager named Anthony Martinez who is widely hated in reviews and whose crew leaves cars worse when they leave than when left there. It seems some of the other people at the location are decent, however. My experience with BMW service has been largely fantastic and my car problem free. What would I lose by going this route? Will I get into a situation like the OP is in? I want the electric future and driving experiences, but terrible quality and terrible service managers who are incompetent and apparently not even trained really seem to be a common occurence. I've been haunting these forums for a couple months now, reading every thread, and I can think of no other luxury brand with as many problems on so many fronts. Hopefully and surely they will work to continue to address this. This thread in particular really churns the stomach.

Honestly, I would not consider my experience as the rule but rather an exception. I also came from a BMW to a Model 3. I had a 535xi. BMW Dealers have their own faults and their own issues. Funny enough, even after that entire experience yesterday/and prior I'd still recommend a Tesla. In fact, 2 weeks ago I went with my neighbor for a test drive in a Model X he is considering buying. He is terrified of the stuff like the one I am experiencing and I still told him he should get it if he likes the car.

I started my post with "Not all batteries are created equal; most are good, but do you want to know what happens when you get a bad one? If so, this is a story you may want to read." and I mean it. Most likely you would not be in this boat, I got an early production car and that is the price I paid for being one of the first to get one. If you had M2 I'd say keep it! but M235 . Funny enough I was on the waitlist for M2 for over 2 years with 2 different BMW dealers and I never was able to get one. When the opportunity presented itself to order a Model 3 I did, but had the chance to buy the elusive M2 had come up first/or even now? I'd jump all over it.

 

[mspohr]

In case you are not aware, this is what the supercharging profile should look like:

Do you use anything like TeslaFi to track supercharging?

If you start charging at 30% battery, you'll see the charge rate drop from >100kW to <80kW within about 10 minutes.

From the OP, it seems that he is complaining about what appears to be normal Supercharging behavior. It would be good if he would set up TeslaFi or something similar to track charging then he could tell if he really had a problem or was just panicking without cause. Tesla has examined the logs and says no problem so I tend to believe them and not some nooby.

 

[vadimr]

From the OP, it seems that he is complaining about what appears to be normal Supercharging behavior. It would be good if he would set up TeslaFi or something similar to track charging then he could tell if he really had a problem or was just panicking without cause. Tesla has examined the logs and says no problem so I tend to believe them and not some nooby.

Wow! I really wish you'd be in my shoes. "Normal Supercharing behavior" and I am the the one creating fictitious stories and Tesla never lies. See attached screenshots from yesterday after they cooked the car for hours and drove it around for 30 miles and pre-heated it to 80F for 30 minutes while inside 65F degree building; That looks normal to you? Oh yeah, keep in mind this is on the internal supercharger inside the service bay without anyone else using it. Normal!

 

[mswlogo]

I couldn't get through the whole OP story. Because the whole first half sounded completely normal, but was pitched like there was a problem.

 

[vadimr]

I couldn't get through the whole OP story. Because the whole first half sounded completely normal, but was pitched like there was a problem.

What you really should write is this: "I didn't read but I am judging"

 

[MP3Mike]

For example even this morning with the car being in the garage overnight and the temp inside the garage being around 50F as soon as I got in it, I got the message regen limited.

That is completely normal from what I have seen.

 

[SJC3]

Trying to help here, but what stands out with those phone app screenshots? You’re charging at a good clip ~300 m/hr and you’re gaining a charge (42% to 58%) in 10 min.

 

[vadimr]

Trying to help here, but what stands out with those phone app screenshots? You’re charging at a good clip ~300 m/hr and you’re gaining a charge (42% to 58%) in 10 min.

Mileage is not the number that is relevant because you need to look at the kW. Besides, look at that graph posted, it should be much higher.

 

[mswlogo]

What you really should write is this: "I didn't read but I am judging"

You can call it what ever you like. But I could see where it was going. That what you described as normal behavior you go in to SC and ask them to fix what isn't broken. And then it will get ugly.

It is NORMAL to NOT stay above 100 kw for more than just a few minutes. And all the conditions have to be just right to even have it do it for a few minutes. It's normal to plug in and only see 60 kw. It's normal for it to taper down to 20 kw.

You have to look at the AVERAGE for the entire charge. And you start with low SOC (not to cold a battery and not to hot) and not competing with another stall. And that site support 120 kw. It will be fair fast. I forget the exact numbers 170 miles in 30 minutes or something like that.

If you watch the charge it gives a running average. It sometimes will start off at 500 mph. But as it approaches 80% SOC it will come down to 200 mph (which is VERY GOOD). That's 10x faster than my home charging.

You never mentioned how long did it take to get from 20% SOC to 80% SOC, which is all that matters. All you keep hyper focusing on is instantaneous kw.

You could have an issue, but your so hyper focused on kw it's hard to see if there really is an issue.

BTW there is a recall on batteries. Not sure if you car falls into that recall build date range.

 

[mswlogo]

Mileage is not the number that is relevant because you need to look at the kW. Besides, look at that graph posted, it should be much higher.

That's your problem and where you are WRONG. It is NOT Kw. it's mileage for the ENTIRE charge.

 

[vadimr]

You can call it what ever you like. But I could see where it was going. That what you described as normal behavior you go in to SC and ask them to fix what isn't broken. And then it will get ugly.

It is NORMAL to NOT stay above 100 kw for more than just a few minutes. And all the conditions have to be just right to even have it do it for a few minutes. It's normal to plug in and only see 60 kw. It's normal for it to taper down to 20 kw.

You have to look at the AVERAGE for the entire charge. And you start with low SOC (not to cold a battery and not to hot) and not competing with another stall. And that site support 120 kw. It will be fair fast. I forget the exact numbers 170 miles in 30 minutes or something like that.

If you watch the charge it gives a running average. It sometimes will start off at 500 mph. But as it approaches 80% SOC it will come down to 200 mph (which is VERY GOOD). That's 10x faster than my home charging.

You never mentioned how long did it take to get from 20% SOC to 80% SOC, which is all that matters. All you keep hyper focusing on is instantaneous kw.

You could have an issue, but your so hyper focused on kw it's hard to see if there really is an issue.

BTW there is a recall on batteries. Not sure if you car falls into that recall build date range.

IT DOES NOT STAY ABOVE 100KW FOR NO MORE THAN 10 SECONDS!!

 

[Common_Loon]

Thanks Vadimir! That does help ease my butterflies. Without getting your thread off track... For what it's worth, I've been going back and forth between the Model 3 Dual Motor and the BMW M2 Competition. Very similar prices, very different cars. Glad to hear that you are still a Tesla fanboy after all this, because maybe I can become one as well?

 

[MP3Mike]

BTW there is a recall on batteries. Not sure if you car falls into that recall build date range.

No, there is not a recall of the batteries. However, there is a TSB that some batteries will need to be replaced. (And it has been discussed in this thread already.)

 

[mspohr]

Wow! I really wish you'd be in my shoes. "Normal Supercharing behavior" and I am the the one creating fictitious stories and Tesla never lies. See attached screenshots from yesterday after they cooked the car for hours and drove it around for 30 miles and pre-heated it to 80F for 30 minutes while inside 65F degree building; That looks normal to you? Oh yeah, keep in mind this is on the internal supercharger inside the service bay without anyone else using it. Normal!

That looks like normal Supercharging behavior.
If you're still concerned, set up TeslaFi (or similar).

 

[vadimr]

No, there is not a recall of the batteries. However, there is a TSB that some batteries will need to be replaced. (And it has been discussed in this thread already.)

I'm in the build range as mine is May 9th it and it starts with May 7th but they said it does not apply.

 

[mswlogo]

Wow! I really wish you'd be in my shoes. "Normal Supercharing behavior" and I am the the one creating fictitious stories and Tesla never lies. See attached screenshots from yesterday after they cooked the car for hours and drove it around for 30 miles and pre-heated it to 80F for 30 minutes while inside 65F degree building; That looks normal to you? Oh yeah, keep in mind this is on the internal supercharger inside the service bay without anyone else using it. Normal!

This is your screen shot and looks NORMAL. Getting nearly 70 kw on a battery that is at nearly 60% SOC is good and normal.
Looks like your target is also 90%. 90% is perfectly fine, but don't expect it to go very fast between 80% and 90% SOC. That might take 30 minutes alone and will be low kw. It can take another hour to get from 90% to 100% and will go down to 1kw.

Fast charging is really targeted at 80% SOC. After that things are pretty slow. And you want to start fairly low SOC (like 20%) to get that high AVERAGE mph for the entire charge. And high would be 200 mph average.

 

[vadimr]

 

[mswlogo]

That looks like normal Supercharging behavior.
If you're still concerned, set up TeslaFi (or similar).

I think TeslaFi would be a bad idea for this person, that doesn't appear understand how a basic supercharge cycle works yet.