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From the investor thread:
She explained to me that the local Enterprise car rental just recently took delivery of 25 MSs and the in-house loaner program just started. Only bad part is that she explained the car has AP disabled. I guess Enterprise is worried about liability. Zzzzz

Takeaway: I think tesla sold a fleet of new MSs to Enterprise at the end of the quarter. So, if this Orange County Enterprise got 25 MSs you can imagine it was a lot of cars nationally.
And someone linked this from there.
...and the Enterprise rep at Buena Park told me Enterprise had just purchased eight Model S 75 kWh cars, and had just taken delivery of the first two. These cars will be rented to service center customers when the SC runs out of loaners.
Wonder how many of those were in the Q2 numbers or this is just happening now.

Interesting move, since Tesla usually loves vertical Integration. Frees up some cash, but probably comes at a higher cost.
 
I estimate natural order rate to be 84 000 S+X / year. Here is how.

At the end of 2016, 6500 cars were in the pipeline. At the end of the second quarter there were 3500 in the pipeline. Over that time period, Tesla delivered 47 000 cars. The average wait time for a new order at the end of 2016 stood slightly longer than it does today (March for US/April overseas vs August US/September overseas now). Not all of that difference can be attributed to a reduction in order book. At the end of 2016, Tesla was prioritizing HK for end of incentives there, likely setting back regular orders somewhat. Still an order book reduction of at least one week (2000) seems plausible. Putting it all together, that means Tesla received 47 000 - 6500 + 3500 - 2000 net customer orders for new (inventory+custom) cars in 6 months.

This leads credence to the theory that there is a real osborne effect surpressing demand, because this is a lower level than the second half of last year. The release of the model 3 full specs, option release schedule and pricing can't come early enough! It's fairly possible it will unleash a rush on entry level model S's.
With the shift to a higher % of purchases coming from inventory off the lot rather than custom orders, wouldn't you expect the "cars in transit to customers" at the end of a quarter to naturally decline?
 
With the shift to a higher % of purchases coming from inventory off the lot rather than custom orders, wouldn't you expect the "cars in transit to customers" at the end of a quarter to naturally decline?

IF, possibly; depends on timeline for an inventory delivery which isn't always swift either. But I am not really seeing the relevance to the topic of this thread (and my post)?
 
IF, possibly; depends on timeline for an inventory delivery which isn't always swift either. But I am not really seeing the relevance to the topic of this thread (and my post)?
Wasn't the drop of cars in transit part of your calculation that demand for S+X was 84K? Which you postulated in spite of the fact that Tesla just guided to at least 94K S+X deliveries for 2017.
 
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Wasn't the drop of cars in transit part of your calculation that demand for S+X was 84K?

Yes, it is. But it doesn't change the conclusion. Had net order rate been higher with more coming from inventory instead of custom build orders then the drop in cars in transit had been more than compensated with more straight up sales throughout the two quarters. That didn't happen so the net order rate was in fact not higher.

Which you postulated in spite of the fact that Tesla just guided to at least 94K S+X deliveries for 2017.

My conclusion is obviously based on the last 6 months and in the same post I indicated a reason why net orders could pick up in the second half. There are at least a few more imaginable (lower prices, maybe a new development, Tesla opening new markets, starting an ad campaign, ...) Any of these may raise demand sufficiently that Tesla sees orders going forward increasing from current level of 84k to 97k over the next 6 months.
 
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I will point out that we'll probably see a rush on S/X in the US as the federal tax credit phases out (i.e. first half of 2018 through first half of 2019). We've been seeing this sort of dynamic in other countries already. At least the US one is a staged phaseout so it won't be quite so lumpy. Honestly we won't see what steady-state demand looks like until at least the second half of 2019. I think increased awareness alone is likely to increase sales over the next two years -- it's amazing how many people have still never heard of Tesla.
 
My conclusion is obviously based on the last 6 months and in the same post I indicated a reason why net orders could pick up in the second half. There are at least a few more imaginable (lower prices, maybe a new development, Tesla opening new markets, starting an ad campaign, ...) Any of these may raise demand sufficiently that Tesla sees orders going forward increasing from current level of 84k to 97k over the next 6 months.
You left out a very big one - increased traffic in Tesla showrooms because of the Model 3. Call it the reverse Osborne effect.
 
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@bonaire - as part of you VIN analysis have you compiled estimates for how many inventory cars have been produced and how many have been sold for the past 4 quarters? If so, could you please share?

In the morning, will look to do that. Problem is, what do we call q1 dump in Hong Kong to what some called shell company(ies) and no exposure to China? I can offer data from US inventory and could run some analysis on GB and DE. Also, in the US they will put up cars as visible to inventory, then take it down and put it back up later. Estimates are that they leave a lot as a long term loaner, for major repairs, then come back a few weeks later. Also big blocks of P100D were visible pre end of quarter then disSapeared, then started coming back recently. So, I think some were held as ABL backed for end of quarter numbers for a short period.
 
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I estimate natural order rate to be 84 000 S+X / year. Here is how.

At the end of 2016, 6500 cars were in the pipeline. At the end of the second quarter there were 3500 in the pipeline. Over that time period, Tesla delivered 47 000 cars. The average wait time for a new order at the end of 2016 stood slightly longer than it does today (March for US/April overseas vs August US/September overseas now). Not all of that difference can be attributed to a reduction in order book. At the end of 2016, Tesla was prioritizing HK for end of incentives there, likely setting back regular orders somewhat. Still an order book reduction of at least one week (2000) seems plausible. Putting it all together, that means Tesla received 47 000 - 6500 + 3500 - 2000 net customer orders for new (inventory+custom) cars in 6 months.

This leads credence to the theory that there is a real osborne effect surpressing demand, because this is a lower level than the second half of last year. The release of the model 3 full specs, option release schedule and pricing can't come early enough! It's fairly possible it will unleash a rush on entry level model S's.

Why are you ignoring the pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory? It should be added to your calculation in the same manner that you accounted for the pipeline of cars going to customers.

The pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory is flowing (at least partially) to replace demo/loaner/inventory cars that were sold. The pipeline also could increase either because of addition of new stores and service centers or an increase in new cars used for loaners.
 
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Why are you ignoring the pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory? It should be added to your calculation in the same manner that you accounted for the pipeline of cars going to customers.

Why? I wanted to estimate net customer orders for H1. The pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory are cars that have no corresponding customer order (yet) in H1 and therefore shouldn't be counted.

The pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory is flowing (at least partially) to replace demo/loaner/inventory cars that were sold.

The part of the inventory/loaner pipeline that is flowing because a car is sold out of it to a customer in H1 is counted in the 47k units sold. The part of the pipeline that is sold but not yet delivered is counted in the 'cars in transit' number. I have no indication that Tesla does not include those in that number. But even if that is not true, I suspect the difference between that pipeline at the end of 2016Q4 and 2017Q2 to be rather small because the nature of a sale out of inventory is that it happens much more swift and therefore that at any given moment the number of cars outstanding for inventory delivery is small (this opposed to cars outstanding for CPO delivery because then Tesla needs to refurb the car which can easily take a few weeks in itself)
 
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Why? I wanted to estimate net customer orders for H1. The pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory are cars that have no corresponding customer order (yet) in H1 and therefore shouldn't be counted.

The part of the inventory/loaner pipeline that is flowing because a car is sold out of it to a customer in H1 is counted in the 47k units sold. The part of the pipeline that is sold but not yet delivered is counted in the 'cars in transit' number. I have no indication that Tesla does not include those in that number. But even if that is not true, I suspect the difference between that pipeline at the end of 2016Q4 and 2017Q2 to be rather small because the nature of a sale out of inventory is that it happens much more swift and therefore that at any given moment the number of cars outstanding for inventory delivery is small (this opposed to cars outstanding for CPO delivery because then Tesla needs to refurb the car which can easily take a few weeks in itself)

Cars in transit is such a loose number that a "customer" could be used as it was in the past where they would include a loaner-replacement or sales lot car within "Net New Orders" - so who knows. Right now, I am integrating new data into my model. Lots of cars in the 200xxx series so far are 100D that are newly showing up (many in Lathrope fleet location). Also re-showing P100D that "came off" visibility near the end of the quarter and since they have the highest value, I still think that they do this to lock in a block of ABL for a few days at the end of the quarter against their highest inventory cars stored at Lathrope or elsewhere. ABL is available for cash-borrowing for a short term on cars that are not yet positioned for sale and seems to be 85% of the "liquidation price", so I assume making P100D for loaners at the end of a quarter also assists this measure of cash management.

Too much data to do much other analysis this morning. I'll get to dennis' question late tonight or Tuesday. However, he's asking for a lot because it is for multiple past quarters. I want to know what happened in the 207xxx - 209xxx jump, was it a clean Vin #? Or much like the Model X 52xxx and 53xxx inventory blocks done in one day each. I sure hope they are not jumping Vin #s just to appear to have more orders than are real. Why would they do that? ;-)

Right now, with the new cars in 200xxx, the inventory/loaner layout per 1000 Vin #s looks like this right now and of course, does not include Asia or many unavailable Euro locations. Canada has been very quiet. Given the 10% population of the USA, it doesn't seem to keep up with 10% inventory or 10% of sales of the USA division.

upload_2017-7-10_7-38-50.png
 
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Why? I wanted to estimate net customer orders for H1. The pipeline for demo/loaner/inventory are cars that have no corresponding customer order (yet) in H1 and therefore shouldn't be counted.

The part of the inventory/loaner pipeline that is flowing because a car is sold out of it to a customer in H1 is counted in the 47k units sold. The part of the pipeline that is sold but not yet delivered is counted in the 'cars in transit' number. I have no indication that Tesla does not include those in that number. But even if that is not true, I suspect the difference between that pipeline at the end of 2016Q4 and 2017Q2 to be rather small because the nature of a sale out of inventory is that it happens much more swift and therefore that at any given moment the number of cars outstanding for inventory delivery is small (this opposed to cars outstanding for CPO delivery because then Tesla needs to refurb the car which can easily take a few weeks in itself)
Not strictly true. Remember all of those high mileage "used cars" that went onto the Tesla CPO site for around $40K this quarter and were quickly sold? Those were being used as service loaners (I know, I got to drive one last year). They are not counted in the 47K number because they are used cars. However a new inventory car had to be produced to replace them.
 
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Not strictly true. Remember all of those high mileage "used cars" that went onto the Tesla CPO site for around $40K this quarter and were quickly sold? Those were being used as service loaners (I know, I got to drive one last year). They are not counted in the 47K number because they are used cars. However a new inventory car had to be produced to replace them.

Still no. That car Tesla had to build is not a net customer order for a new car in H1, it is a service and sales department order. It will be a net customer order when someone puts down a deposit on the car this month and drives home a week later. Then Tesla will count that car as a new delivery in Q3 and my calculation for net new orders in H2 will pick it up.
 
Still no. That car Tesla had to build is not a net customer order for a new car in H1, it is a service and sales department order. It will be a net customer order when someone puts down a deposit on the car this month and drives home a week later. Then Tesla will count that car as a new delivery in Q3 and my calculation for net new orders in H2 will pick it up.

The term "Net New Order" is challenging. They have used the term in prior ER prints which include (I've done the math) the service loaner re-orders and new-inventory speculation cars within Tesla. So, obviously, we should consider a loaner replacement a "Net New Order" even it sits and collects dust or goes into the loaner pool. Simply put - an untitledcar delivered is a new-car sold. Everything else is pipeline filling. If Jose in Spain orders 1000 for the Madrid store, that is 1000 net new orders. They may not be built all at once and some may be cancelled. Even Vin #s skipped. It is perhaps why they stopped showing the actual ModelS and ModelX production by-type. Now, it is only said how many of each are delivered. Not printing the production of each indicates they don't want us knowing the balance.

Based on cumulative end of Q2 data, it looks like roughly 8500 MS and 8000 MX were "Produced but not Sold" with 3500 in transit at end of Q2. That is a lot of loaner fleet, inventory and marketing cars. As the overall sale number grows by 24000-25000 per quarter, you need to have a good amount of loaners for service cars. With the large # of produced but not sold, you start to see these fleet sales to the rental such as Enterprise, etc. Q2 allowed for about 2500 new inventory build up. Seems appropriate going into Q3 with the very limited Model 3 production schedule - people may want to just jump into Model S 75s.

As with any economic model, sales will increase if prices decrease. Maybe a price shift is coming or some other incentives?
 
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OK, bonaire, here's the problem: you seem to be running an accumulating count of cars going into the inventory / loaner / internal use fleet, which seems to be sound, but you don't appear to be properly calculating cars coming *out* of that fleet. Some of them are sold as new, but some of them are being sold as used, not as new; we have evidence of this. So you're slowly getting an inflated cumulative estimate. (Any car going to crash testing will also be produced and not delivered and will inflate your estimate. And so on.) I don't think you can add up numbers over time in the way you are doing without ending up with an overestimate of the inventory.
 
OK, bonaire, here's the problem: you seem to be running an accumulating count of cars going into the inventory / loaner / internal use fleet, which seems to be sound, but you don't appear to be properly calculating cars coming *out* of that fleet. Some of them are sold as new, but some of them are being sold as used, not as new; we have evidence of this. So you're slowly getting an inflated cumulative estimate. (Any car going to crash testing will also be produced and not delivered and will inflate your estimate. And so on.) I don't think you can add up numbers over time in the way you are doing without ending up with an overestimate of the inventory.

If a car goes into fleet for loaner, it can be sold as new in almost every location after months of use. Other than Colorado which says any "new" car must have less than 1500 miles. I know there has to be some loss in the system. Crash tests, test-drive crashes (sometimes the customer is on the hook to pay for it) and other factors. It's a lossy system and the 16500 total produced but not sold will have some overall losses. Doesn't factor in the overage of Vin #s as well for those gaps that happen over time. How many crash test cars will there be per year? 20? 10? How many will get crashed worldwide during test-drives? hundreds maybe? Europe had 1-week test drives allowed - I suppose customers are responsible to pay if they put one in a ditch during their test drives and it is written off as totaled - I suppose that is a sale (to the insurer) rather than an inventory write-down.

The only way to sell them as used is to self-title the cars (ie. Hong Kong, Denmark, Norway?) and then sell as used with a lower price and capture the incentive internally. I think any "new" car that has more than 10,000 miles on it should be considered used and not qualify for the regional incentives of the country/state/municipality. I am not a CPA but isn't a firm able to write the miles used to sell a car down as a "Cost of Revenue"? And if done using the IRS formula in the USA, that is $0.54/mile? Though, as a loaner - it is more of a cost-of-servicing a customer, something like that.

What is the industry average of fleet-losses prior to sale? I hope it isn't very much. That's expensive write-downs. If we can determine a fleet-wide auto industry scrapping loss of actual production cars, we can figure something out. I go with maybe 1000 units per year - so maybe 4000 since inception, taking 16500 down to 12500. That's a lot of cars - and amounts to $400 Million in possible lost-sales with an ASP of $100k each. If they are that loose with scrapping - why was there such a furor over discounting in Q3 of 2016 for a few k off a car to make a sale? Expense management also included trying to ship by train to east coast buyers rather than truck to save a few bucks. I suspect scrapping is far less than 1000 units a year. But who would really know? Q1 Inventory Writedown was: $26,918,000 - pretty hefty. Inventory is well known as "finished goods" - cars, powerpacks, powerwalls, solar stuff. But what does that quarter's inventory writedown include? 2016 year-long inventory write-down was only $65,520,000. So, what happens behind the curtain is hard to know.

Now, if I see an inventory car sitting in Fremont and I want it shipped to me, I must pay $2k extra. And it hasn't even left Fremont yet. Expense management seems tight there.

Look my numbers over here and I had to take guesses on the MS production the last three quarters because they stopped breaking them out.

upload_2017-7-10_16-49-51.png

upload_2017-7-10_16-57-12.png
 
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So what is the "correct" number of cars for Tesla to hold in inventory for display/test drive, service loaners and purchases "off the lot" instead of custom orders? Let's try some first principles analysis.

Looking at the Tesla website, they have 84 service centers in the US and 82 internationally, for a total of 166. Each service center would require 10-50 service loaners, depending on size. I know of one particular service center has a goal of completing 30 vehicle services per day. So let's say an average of 25 loaners per location which would account for 4000 cars. Another way of getting at this is with a fleet size of 250,000 cars, if an average vehicle requires 1 day for an annual service and 2 days per year for some other issue with 250 work days that would require 3000 cars in the service loaner fleet at 100% utilization. Conclusion: 3000-4000 vehicles in the service loaner fleet.

There are 110 US sales locations, so I will assume the same ratio for international for a total of 220. I initially thought that each sales location would require 4-20 cars for display and test drives. At an average of 10, that accounts for 2000+ cars. However, it was pointed out that Jon McNeil said they were adding 1000 Model X's to the demo fleet. Since they already have some X's out there and a full complement of S demo cars I now believe there are 3000 cars in the demo fleet. The reason for this is that Tesla is using "overnight test drives" for qualified prospects as a way to convert them into buyers. An overnight test drive car only services one prospect in a day, whereas a normal test drive car might serve 8-10 prospects daily.

What about brand new cars to be purchased from inventory? Tesla sells about 25,000 cars per quarter. If we assume that all cars were purchased from inventory, 2 week delivery from factory to sales location and 2 weeks that the vehicle is on the lot, that would require 8000 cars. We know that there is some split between custom orders and purchases from inventory, but don't know what that split percentage is. If we assume 50%, that would mean Tesla needs to carry 4000 new cars in inventory. This number is the most speculative because we don't know the % split or the average days on the lot.

So adding these together Tesla needs a minimum of 3500 service loaner + 3000 demo + 4000 new inventory = 10,500 cars to be carried on the books at Tesla's current level of sales and fleet size. And that assumes a perfect distribution by location, vehicle configuration, etc.
 
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So adding these together Tesla needs a minimum of 3500 service loaner + 3000 demo + 4000 new inventory = 10,500 cars to be carried on the books at Tesla's current level of sales and fleet size. And that assumes a perfect distribution by location, vehicle configuration, etc.

Currently, Tesla has 12000 new cars in inventory. Not sure how many CPO's on top of that, but at least a couple thousands. What do you expect for this quarter in terms of production/delivery differential?
 
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