Did this mechanic damage my steering system?

[Yozer34]

He had finished lubricating my brakes - in case that was relevant - and parked the car outside. Before I left his shop, he wanted to show me the wear pattern on my tires, so he cranked the steering wheel all the way to the left. There was a very loud and discernible thump/snap that occurred as he finished turning the wheels.
Since then, the steering wheel has been tilting rightwards slightly (as if turning right) when driving straight. There's also a slight pull to the right, and steering to the left feels a tiny bit more stiffer than the right when driving. I'm definitely not imagining it!
I wasn't able to reproduce the noise when steering all the way to the stop in either direction, and the steering is currently smooth and quiet. I did have the alignment checked and everything was within spec.
Could he have damaged a part in the steering system, like the pinion/rack? What could be the issue, if not?

(Also, here's the alignment report I got, in case that helps. The tech at the alignment shop said the steering wheel offset is less than 0.2 of a degree. )

 

[ODWms]

I can’t imagine how the tech could have done damage in the way described. The steering components are made to handle that lock to lock action, and shouldn’t be damaged by it. Can’t deny you heard a distinctive sound though, so I don’t know. Maybe have Tesla take a look and they can give you some guidance?

 

[Yozer34]

I can’t imagine how the tech could have done damage in the way described. The steering components are made to handle that lock to lock action, and shouldn’t be damaged by it. Can’t deny you heard a distinctive sound though, so I don’t know. Maybe have Tesla take a look and they can give you some guidance?

Thanks for your response.

Even if they turned it with too much force?
From prior experience, I dont really trust Tesla’s service in diagnosing or fixing issues.

 

[father_of_6]

Could it have just been a rock under the edge of the tire?

 

[afadeev]

He had finished lubricating my brakes - in case that was relevant - and parked the car outside. Before I left his shop, he wanted to show me the wear pattern on my tires, so he cranked the steering wheel all the way to the left. There was a very loud and discernible thump/snap that occurred as he finished turning the wheels.

That's OK.
Turning steering wheel to full lock can NOT damage anything.

Since then, the steering wheel has been tilting rightwards slightly (as if turning right) when driving straight. There's also a slight pull to the right, and steering to the left feels a tiny bit more stiffer than the right when driving. I'm definitely not imagining it!
(Also, here's the alignment report I got, in case that helps. )

Your alignment print-out shows that everything is within spec.
Very few roads are perfectly even, with most design to shed water off the surface onto one side or the other. So some off-center steering input is not unexpected when driving straight.

Don't panic.
Everything is fine.

 

[Yozer34]

Could it have just been a rock under the edge of the tire?

That is possible since the car was on an unpaved surface with gravel, but it seemed too loud for it to be rock, if that makes sense.

 

[Yozer34]

That's OK.
Turning steering wheel to full lock can NOT damage anything.



Your alignment print-out shows that everything is within spec.
Very few roads are perfectly even, with most design to shed water off the surface onto one side or the other. So some off-center steering input is not unexpected when driving straight.

Don't panic.
Everything is fine.

I appreciate your input. I'm just concerned because of the noise I heard (which may have been a rock, but sounded very loud), and the tilt, which was definitely not the way the steering wheel was before; I've confirmed that on the same roads I always drive on.
The guy was in a hurry and was being a dick about me asking him questions after the service, so he probably cranked the wheel forcefully.
I am thinking of getting it inspected just to be safe.

 

[KenC]

He had finished lubricating my brakes - in case that was relevant - and parked the car outside. Before I left his shop, he wanted to show me the wear pattern on my tires, so he cranked the steering wheel all the way to the left. There was a very loud and discernible thump/snap that occurred as he finished turning the wheels.
Since then, the steering wheel has been tilting rightwards slightly (as if turning right) when driving straight. There's also a slight pull to the right, and steering to the left feels a tiny bit more stiffer than the right when driving. I'm definitely not imagining it!
I wasn't able to reproduce the noise when steering all the way to the stop in either direction, and the steering is currently smooth and quiet. I did have the alignment checked and everything was within spec.
Could he have damaged a part in the steering system, like the pinion/rack? What could be the issue, if not?

(Also, here's the alignment report I got, in case that helps. The tech at the alignment shop said the steering wheel offset is less than 0.2 of a degree. )


View attachment 980780

He barely adjusted it at all! Maybe he didn't re-center your steering wheel? How about the angle offset? You can take a look at it in your service menu.

 

[Yozer34]

He barely adjusted it at all! Maybe he didn't re-center your steering wheel? How about the angle offset? You can take a look at it in your service menu.

No the alignment tech didnt, since it was within spec.

 

[P90D]

Those before/after numbers are too close across the board.
Those numbers are within the variation from just jouncing the suspension or turning the steering wheel one turn off center in either direction.
Why was the Model 3 getting an alignment?
Why get an alignment on worn tires?
Given the close before/after numbers, it would be practically impossible for the steering wheel to turn away from "straight ahead" centered after this work.
Customers first notice if the steering wheel is centered, they then notice if the vehicle doesn't track straight down the freeway.
In a previous life I was factory trained in alignments and spent my days setting up race cars, setting up customers' daily drivers as a sort of business courtesy if they had something they wanted to be dialed in, not just "set the toe and let it go" (which is what happened here.

As for the "loud thump/snap" yes that can be damage and yes a steering rack and other components can be damaged by being turned to full lock and then forced too far. It would take wildly excessive force, or it would indicate a component already damaged or deteriorating.
Is the steering wheel off-center in the direction the "tech" had turned the wheel and then forced it at full lock?
It's also possible that a ball joint or tie-rod has started to fail.
I'd just take the vehicle back and say "let's go for a ride-along, I have had to come back because the steering wheel is off-center."
Shops treat "come backs" seriously and they'll be wanting the alignment tech to fix the problem.
If they have more than one alignment tech, the idea is to have a different tech check the work and fix the problem.

 

[holmgang]

Nothing should be damaged by merely turning the steering wheel lock to lock. That's literally within the mode of operation.

Servicing the brakes should have nothing to do with affecting the alignment. They just remove the wheels.

If the toe values are within spec, and also roughly symmetric, but the steering wheel is off-center when driving straight ahead... the only explanation is the tie rod (which controls the effective length of the steering arm) had been adjusted on both sides. There is zero reason for the tech to have done that.

Based on the sound and the symptom, maybe something did get damage OR "settled" into a new state...but it wouldn't be the fault of the tech for having caused it.

 

[Freedom]

While I still think you are imaging things, confirmation bias. Find a really flat road to really test, let the car coast and see if it tries to go right. Under acceleration, it is normal for cars to turn one way or the other even in AWD. Google "torque steer".

As for technical side in case you aren't, the tech didn't break anything that wasn't going to already. No way turning the steering wheel one way or the other really quickly/to the max will damage anything unless it was going to fail already. What you should do if you are really worried is have a tech check the steering racks mounting points. I recall a couple times where Tesla on the model 3 did not properly torque the control arm and bolt came out while driving.

 

[EatsShoots]

That is possible since the car was on an unpaved surface with gravel, but it seemed too loud for it to be rock, if that makes sense.

It makes sense.... I also am sure you heard something but I find it exceptionally hard to believe he could have broken the steering like this. Heck, the in-game car game in the tesla literally involves turning the wheel back and forth while parked.

As mentioned it's absolutely normal for a car to pull. And I would expect that turning to be to the right, because of camber in the road designed to shed rain (roads aren't flat). I'm sure none of my cars track straight on most roads. If the wheel is offset now that is kinda weird if it's more than a few degrees (i.e. if you have to think about it to notice it I wouldn't worry about that).

 

[Yozer34]

Those before/after numbers are too close across the board.
Those numbers are within the variation from just jouncing the suspension or turning the steering wheel one turn off center in either direction.
Why was the Model 3 getting an alignment?
Why get an alignment on worn tires?
Given the close before/after numbers, it would be practically impossible for the steering wheel to turn away from "straight ahead" centered after this work.
Customers first notice if the steering wheel is centered, they then notice if the vehicle doesn't track straight down the freeway.
In a previous life I was factory trained in alignments and spent my days setting up race cars, setting up customers' daily drivers as a sort of business courtesy if they had something they wanted to be dialed in, not just "set the toe and let it go" (which is what happened here.

As for the "loud thump/snap" yes that can be damage and yes a steering rack and other components can be damaged by being turned to full lock and then forced too far. It would take wildly excessive force, or it would indicate a component already damaged or deteriorating.
Is the steering wheel off-center in the direction the "tech" had turned the wheel and then forced it at full lock?
It's also possible that a ball joint or tie-rod has started to fail.
I'd just take the vehicle back and say "let's go for a ride-along, I have had to come back because the steering wheel is off-center."
Shops treat "come backs" seriously and they'll be wanting the alignment tech to fix the problem.
If they have more than one alignment tech, the idea is to have a different tech check the work and fix the problem.

My bad I should clarify that the alignment shop I took the car to was different than the first shop where the forceful steering wheel turning occurred. I took it to the alignment shop after to get the alignment checked as I was concerned about the new steering tilt that the other shop may have caused. The alignment tech didnt change anything as he saw everything was normal.
I definitely tried to take it back to the original shop but they refused to help and denied anything could happen.
As for the steering wheel direction, it is tilting to the right (as if turning the wheels to the right), whereas the tech turned the steering wheel all the way to the left (i.e. turned the actual wheels to the left), so theyre opposite directions. My thinking was there might something damaged or stuck that is causing slight resistance to left turning, hence the rightward tilt, but I dont really know.
The car only has 26k miles, which doesnt negate there being already damaged parts but makes the scenario unlikely.
I will take it to a nearby repair shop soon to get the relevant areas inspected. Would an inspection involve taking anything apart though?

 

[Yozer34]

While I still think you are imaging things, confirmation bias. Find a really flat road to really test, let the car coast and see if it tries to go right. Under acceleration, it is normal for cars to turn one way or the other even in AWD. Google "torque steer".

As for technical side in case you aren't, the tech didn't break anything that wasn't going to already. No way turning the steering wheel one way or the other really quickly/to the max will damage anything unless it was going to fail already. What you should do if you are really worried is have a tech check the steering racks mounting points. I recall a couple times where Tesla on the model 3 did not properly torque the control arm and bolt came out while driving.

Awesome thanks for the tip!

 

[P90D]

While I still think you are imaging things, confirmation bias. Find a really flat road to really test, let the car coast and see if it tries to go right. Under acceleration, it is normal for cars to turn one way or the other even in AWD. Google "torque steer".

As for technical side in case you aren't, the tech didn't break anything that wasn't going to already. No way turning the steering wheel one way or the other really quickly/to the max will damage anything unless it was going to fail already. What you should do if you are really worried is have a tech check the steering racks mounting points. I recall a couple times where Tesla on the model 3 did not properly torque the control arm and bolt came out while driving.

For a road test of steering, a flat road (no camber, in other words, the road doesn't slope to one curbside or the other for water drainage) and test three conditions. First check all tire pressures are in spec and equal left-to-right. Check tires for unusual wear or changes in the tread pattern. Rounded shoulders or middle tread blocks, "cupping" or "chunking" can occur in tires that were overheated, underinflated or overinflated, or due to misalignment or aggressive driving (acceleration, braking, fast turns, front-wheel-drive or heavy towing.)

1. straight ahead coasting (steady mph) while firmly holding the steering wheel straight ahead
2. straight ahead coasting while allowing the steering wheel to turn slightly in reaction
3. firm acceleration while holding straight ahead, again while allowing the steering wheel to react
(keep steering to the very minimum, just to detect the reaction of the steering wheel left or right)
4. firm braking while holding straight ahead, and again while allowing the steering wheel to react

Indicators are:
1. vehicle changing direction while holding the steering wheel straight ahead (suspension damage, tire wear)
2. steering wheel reacting somewhat (misalignment or tire wear)
3. steering wheel reacting and continuing to react with more force (misalignment, caster or steering angle error or damage)

r.e. "torque steer" this is not relevant to modern AWD or FWD, especially electric vehicles which have equal length drive shafts.
Some FWD (front wheel drive) and AWD, especially older models are notorious for torque steer due to unequal length drive shafts.
This can be accentuated by more powerful engines (and turbo boost onset) or insufficient tire grip.
For a Model 3, any torque reaction will be related to tire grip and uneven road surface between any of the four tires.
It could be possible to diagnose alignment based on torque reaction, but it would be a time-consuming process.

For all such tests of course observe roads laws, apply common sense, find an isolated road with zero traffic and no surrounding obstacles, pedestrians, etc. These tests are all effective at moderate speeds, not require aggressive inputs or high speed and only a few seconds is required to observe the vehicle reaction to each test, not requiring panic braking or sudden stops or loss of traction under acceleration, etc. These tests will isolate vehicle behavior under normal, safe driving conditions.

 

[P90D]

My bad I should clarify that the alignment shop I took the car to was different than the first shop where the forceful steering wheel turning occurred. I took it to the alignment shop after to get the alignment checked as I was concerned about the new steering tilt that the other shop may have caused. The alignment tech didnt change anything as he saw everything was normal.
I definitely tried to take it back to the original shop but they refused to help and denied anything could happen.
As for the steering wheel direction, it is tilting to the right (as if turning the wheels to the right), whereas the tech turned the steering wheel all the way to the left (i.e. turned the actual wheels to the left), so theyre opposite directions. My thinking was there might something damaged or stuck that is causing slight resistance to left turning, hence the rightward tilt, but I dont really know.
The car only has 26k miles, which doesnt negate there being already damaged parts but makes the scenario unlikely.
I will take it to a nearby repair shop soon to get the relevant areas inspected. Would an inspection involve taking anything apart though?

It's sadly common for auto shops to deny anything is their fault (before even checking to see what's going on.)
The noise you describe could be anything from a socket or wrench left on a nut or bolt (sadly again, it happens because auto techs are not trained for procedures, they're trained in basic tasks without the "cleanliness" of an organized work bay where they can "count out" every tool being returned to its correct place and leaving nothing behind in the patient … just like surgery, everything that goes in has to be counted out. But in a small shop doing repetitive work, it's unlikely that the shop operates with the discipline and procedures that would leave no room for error. A competent shop should have each fastener cleaned and then dabbed with marker paint after being torqued to spec. A second tech should "eyeball" every job and the road test should result in a checklist completed and test notes such as "steering wheel off-center" and "tires worn, replace and retest" etc. But you have to pay for that level of competence, if you can find it. : )

As for what to test or inspect, it's pretty much the whole front end, working from the steering wheel alignment. It should be given a "nut and bolt" inspection of the steering and front suspension, then a road test, then they should know what to do, which hopefully is just to correct the alignment so the steering wheel and the steering rack agree on "straight ahead" then recalibrate software for Autopilot and FSD, etc.

At 26K miles and half way through its warranty, it's a good time to have this kind of thing sorted out. It sounds like just a botched alignment and wasted time and money. Damage can be due to bad roads or bad luck. I don't know of any particular weakness of vulnerability in the Model steering or front suspension. All it takes is a wheel turned at just the wrong angle, hitting the edge of a pothole, and the Model 3 is a very heavy, powerful machine. Good luck.

 

[Freedom]

For a road test of steering, a flat road (no camber, in other words, the road doesn't slope to one curbside or the other for water drainage) and test three conditions. First check all tire pressures are in spec and equal left-to-right. Check tires for unusual wear or changes in the tread pattern. Rounded shoulders or middle tread blocks, "cupping" or "chunking" can occur in tires that were overheated, underinflated or overinflated, or due to misalignment or aggressive driving (acceleration, braking, fast turns, front-wheel-drive or heavy towing.)

1. straight ahead coasting (steady mph) while firmly holding the steering wheel straight ahead
2. straight ahead coasting while allowing the steering wheel to turn slightly in reaction
3. firm acceleration while holding straight ahead, again while allowing the steering wheel to react
(keep steering to the very minimum, just to detect the reaction of the steering wheel left or right)
4. firm braking while holding straight ahead, and again while allowing the steering wheel to react

Indicators are:
1. vehicle changing direction while holding the steering wheel straight ahead (suspension damage, tire wear)
2. steering wheel reacting somewhat (misalignment or tire wear)
3. steering wheel reacting and continuing to react with more force (misalignment, caster or steering angle error or damage)

r.e. "torque steer" this is not relevant to modern AWD or FWD, especially electric vehicles which have equal length drive shafts.
Some FWD (front wheel drive) and AWD, especially older models are notorious for torque steer due to unequal length drive shafts.
This can be accentuated by more powerful engines (and turbo boost onset) or insufficient tire grip.
For a Model 3, any torque reaction will be related to tire grip and uneven road surface between any of the four tires.
It could be possible to diagnose alignment based on torque reaction, but it would be a time-consuming process.

For all such tests of course observe roads laws, apply common sense, find an isolated road with zero traffic and no surrounding obstacles, pedestrians, etc. These tests are all effective at moderate speeds, not require aggressive inputs or high speed and only a few seconds is required to observe the vehicle reaction to each test, not requiring panic braking or sudden stops or loss of traction under acceleration, etc. These tests will isolate vehicle behavior under normal, safe driving conditions.

good to know

 

[Yozer34]

It's sadly common for auto shops to deny anything is their fault (before even checking to see what's going on.)
The noise you describe could be anything from a socket or wrench left on a nut or bolt (sadly again, it happens because auto techs are not trained for procedures, they're trained in basic tasks without the "cleanliness" of an organized work bay where they can "count out" every tool being returned to its correct place and leaving nothing behind in the patient … just like surgery, everything that goes in has to be counted out. But in a small shop doing repetitive work, it's unlikely that the shop operates with the discipline and procedures that would leave no room for error. A competent shop should have each fastener cleaned and then dabbed with marker paint after being torqued to spec. A second tech should "eyeball" every job and the road test should result in a checklist completed and test notes such as "steering wheel off-center" and "tires worn, replace and retest" etc. But you have to pay for that level of competence, if you can find it. : )

As for what to test or inspect, it's pretty much the whole front end, working from the steering wheel alignment. It should be given a "nut and bolt" inspection of the steering and front suspension, then a road test, then they should know what to do, which hopefully is just to correct the alignment so the steering wheel and the steering rack agree on "straight ahead" then recalibrate software for Autopilot and FSD, etc.

At 26K miles and half way through its warranty, it's a good time to have this kind of thing sorted out. It sounds like just a botched alignment and wasted time and money. Damage can be due to bad roads or bad luck. I don't know of any particular weakness of vulnerability in the Model steering or front suspension. All it takes is a wheel turned at just the wrong angle, hitting the edge of a pothole, and the Model 3 is a very heavy, powerful machine. Good luck.

Thank you for the advice.

My problem is that I can't find a reputable and honest shop anywhere near me here in the northeast. The shop that I went to was supposedly expert in servicing Teslas and had mostly 5-star reviews on Google, yet they caused the issue at hand and behaved unprofessionally.

Also, I'm not sure if you misunderstood me, but this shop (where the tech turned the steering wheel and caused the clunk/thump) had only performed a brake lubrication that day, and didn't check or adjust the alignment. I suppose it is still possible they left a tool in there after reattaching the calipers.

Finally, just to clarify, do you mean the alignment could be botched even with the specifications being "within normal limits"? (I've only ever had the alignment adjusted by a Tesla SC over a year ago, and the car and steering wheel tracked perfectly in the midline, up until this incident)

 

[P90D]

Thank you for the advice.

My problem is that I can't find a reputable and honest shop anywhere near me here in the northeast. The shop that I went to was supposedly expert in servicing Teslas and had mostly 5-star reviews on Google, yet they caused the issue at hand and behaved unprofessionally.

Also, I'm not sure if you misunderstood me, but this shop (where the tech turned the steering wheel and caused the clunk/thump) had only performed a brake lubrication that day, and didn't check or adjust the alignment. I suppose it is still possible they left a tool in there after reattaching the calipers.

Finally, just to clarify, do you mean the alignment could be botched even with the specifications being "within normal limits"? (I've only ever had the alignment adjusted by a Tesla SC over a year ago, and the car and steering wheel tracked perfectly in the midline, up until this incident)

ok, I didn't realize it was a brake job, but yes, they could leave a wrench on a bleeder or any number of errors

as for alignment, again, a "set the toe and let it go" tech, typical at tire stores, will happily "lean on" the car to budge the numbers into spec for the printout. I don't think that explains how the steering wheel is off-center, but either you or someone driving it caused the problem, or a mechanic messed up the alignment.

finding a reputable shop is a challenge. one way is to go to the nearest Porsche dealer and go to their service/parts counter and ask which alignment shop they use. it's common for any high end shop to send a car out to a tire shop or specialty alignment shop because they usually have one alignment rack and that can be a bottleneck if they have multiple cars waiting for just that one service line-item. If there's no Porsche shop in the vicinity, Mercedes, Audi, BMW or even Tesla will have recommendations.