Difference between Model 3 and its competitors?

[Brando]

Example airflow and direction, something that I change pretty often....They already showed how it`s done for the model 3 ..and suprise suprise......touchscreen.
Also even in that model s video ...with so few buttons you have to CHOOSE BEFOREHAND what exactly you want them to do. Want anything else...screen again.

There`s a reason why smartphones are forbidden while driving...and that model 3 basically put a giant ipad in the middle of the board.......it`s seriously ironic.
If you can`t understand why haptic feedback is important for blind control then you`re a lost case.

This might be a non issue for anyone who doesn`t do anything but change radio channels, but the moment you want to do more those 2 buttons on the wheel reach their limits very fast.
This simple fact gave birth to systems like audis mmi f.e. which gives some feedback over the wheel...so you can blind-control most of the stuff with some practice...and even that system suffers from tree-menus.

Constantly adjust air flow, right.
Seems most simply ask for the song they want in their Teslas. Guess you are old school radio station hunter?
Think you should actually TRY the model 3 before complaining.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Constantly adjust air flow, right.
Seems most simply ask for the song they want in their Teslas. Guess you are old school radio station hunter?
Think you should actually TRY the model 3 before complaining.

Because there have never been touchscreens in any car, or....on a smarthphone/tablet.

Can you use your tablet blind? go through the menus without looking at the screen? How`d you like it for phones to get rid of dedicated volume control buttons?
Ever tried using touchscreen control in a car? It´s disgusting in dense traffic, slightly less on highways.

A nice touchscreen as an extra for the passengers to play around with or when parked is great...a touch screen as central input and control mechanism for everything and anything in the car is nonsense as long as the car doesn`t literally drive itself.

 

[gambit48]

I would never consider owning German cars when I have been fortunate to experience Honda and Toyota reliability and cost of ownership. Some luck out on their German over engineered vehicles but I don't want to try my luck.

For now until late 2018, there will only be the Bolt, Hyundai/Kia Kona Niro Ioniq, Nissan Leaf and possibly a Honda offering that will likely topple 200 miles. My next car will be a BEV because gasoline is expensive in Canada and because every test drive of any BEV has been quite positive.

I see no reason to get a third car if it will be another ICE vehicle since we have enough of those already in an Accord coupe and RAV4 hybrid.

I've owned German. It's only overengineered in things most people don't notice. It's that solid feeling when cruising down the highway. That satisfying thunk when closing the door. As an auto enthusiast, I pay attention to things like that. My mom never noticed a difference in driving between her $60k Mercedes and the $13k (new) cheapo minivan (yes, in this century and bought just a couple years apart from the MB) she had. It's things like maintenance and overall reliability (like how many times you have to bring the car into the dealer and how much will it cost) where most people "notice" a car and yeah, the "German engineering" doesn't really show up there as an advantage. BMW lost it's "driving" feel advantage several years ago. About the last cars that still had the "feel" that made BMW famous were the E46 3 series and E39 5 series. After that, there wasn't much difference between them and the other Germans. Now, I really see no point in buying a BMW because they never made up in other ways when they lost their driving feel advantage.

Anyways, I think Tesla overdid it in terms of putting EVERYTHING into the screen. I think they did that intentionally and knowingly. It's awful for the driver. Other manufacturers went in that direction (taking away all buttons they could), but went back to adding some buttons after so many complaints. You need tactile feel and muscle memory to drive without distractions. However, my theory is that Tesla knows and doesn't care. They're pushing the autonomous car route. Like Apple and dropping legacy connectors cold turkey, I think Tesla did it this way to push people towards autonomous driving by making things harder for the driver so that they'll just choose the full autonomous autopilot when possible.

 

[internalaudit]

I've owned German. It's only overengineered in things most people don't notice. It's that solid feeling when cruising down the highway. That satisfying thunk when closing the door. As an auto enthusiast, I pay attention to things like that. My mom never noticed a difference in driving between her $60k Mercedes and the $13k (new) cheapo minivan (yes, in this century and bought just a couple years apart from the MB) she had. It's things like maintenance and overall reliability (like how many times you have to bring the car into the dealer and how much will it cost) where most people "notice" a car and yeah, the "German engineering" doesn't really show up there as an advantage. BMW lost it's "driving" feel advantage several years ago. About the last cars that still had the "feel" that made BMW famous were the E46 3 series and E39 5 series. After that, there wasn't much difference between them and the other Germans. Now, I really see no point in buying a BMW because they never made up in other ways when they lost their driving feel advantage.

Anyways, I think Tesla overdid it in terms of putting EVERYTHING into the screen. I think they did that intentionally and knowingly. It's awful for the driver. Other manufacturers went in that direction (taking away all buttons they could), but went back to adding some buttons after so many complaints. You need tactile feel and muscle memory to drive without distractions. However, my theory is that Tesla knows and doesn't care. They're pushing the autonomous car route. Like Apple and dropping legacy connectors cold turkey, I think Tesla did it this way to push people towards autonomous driving by making things harder for the driver so that they'll just choose the full autonomous autopilot when possible.

I keep reading about the lack of tactile/feedback once car makers moved from the manual rack and pinion steering to EPS. I also have read Car & Driver comments about how BMW vehicles now lack that steering feel and no soul from the engine. For steering, they said there is still that razor sharp accuracy but no feedback is provided. Why would someone want to feel bumps/roughness on the road through the steering wheel? I can feel that harshness everyday in my 02 Civic and I'm not fond of it.

How does one feel the soul coming from the engine, high RPM, which is almost a thing of the past for turbo charged engines with max torque reached below 2k RPM?

 

[gambit48]

If you're a car person, all those tactile things are part of the experience. Including the "nasty" smell of oil, gas, and tire smoke. It's why car companies spend the effort to create engine sounds and pipe it in through the stereo system.

If you're not, then all that stuff is a bad thing. To each their own.

Feeling the bumps is important when driving faster. It helps you "read" the road. It's like playing video games vs driving a real car. It's just not the same. Even the Motor Trend review of the M3 mentions it I believe. You just have to bother tuning for it.

The reason BMW was so praised by the car mags was because they put that proper "feel" into even the 3 series. You didn't need to pay for a premium sports car like a Porsche or Ferrari to get that sporty feel. Other manufacturers just never managed to fully match the "feel" that BMWs had, even if they had some feel. Then BMW went and lost it and now they're really no better than anyone else. I mean, they're still good. Audi is way worse for example, but plenty basically match it now or it's not really appreciably better.

 

[internalaudit]

I'm not a car person but I do appreciate the handling dynamics for sure, just comparing my Accord coupe (non-EPS) to that fully depreciated Civic, it feels night and day and the Accord is not even a sports car though with such a gutless engine, I'm glad the Civic comes with 5MT.

 

[gambit48]

How does one feel the soul coming from the engine, high RPM, which is almost a thing of the past for turbo charged engines with max torque reached below 2k RPM?

You don't. Not really. With car mags, you have to read between the lines and amplify any negative sounding statement (but not the positives, they basically always stay super positive and barely negative to avoid pissing off the car manufacturers). There's a tone of regret and longing of days past when talking about these new modern turbo engines. They always throw in a "it's just what's going to happen in order to stay ahead of mileage/emissions requirements".

Which is why EVs will have an advantage because car guys (like the car mag reviewers) won't have an ICE option to fall back on for "fun" the more time passes.

 

[gambit48]

I'm not a car person but I do appreciate the handling dynamics for sure, just comparing my Accord coupe (non-EPS) to that fully depreciated Civic, it feels night and day and the Accord is not even a sports car though with such a gutless engine, I'm glad the Civic comes with 5MT.

The feel is different from handling dynamics, but they do play off each other. You can feel the better handling dynamics of my old BMW even when taking your normal left hand turn at 35 miles an hour vs if you took my Lexus. Push it up to 50 and the feelings increase a lot. On my BMW, you don't feel like you're going to slip out of control (handling dynamics) but there's also feel (I can tell if the asphalt is sandy or "loose" and tighten my grip or hold the tightest turn of the steering wheel a split second longer until I'm out of that sketchy patch). On the Lexus, it feel like I'm driving a big boat (handling dynamics) and have no idea what's going on under the tires and just have to hope for the best in terms of traction (feel).