Difficult situation with a Condo, advice appreciated...

[davewill]

As for someone coming and stealing my power... I might just have to get in the habit of flicking the breaker for it when I leave so that it's de-energized. I wish Tesla had a way to let you lock it to a car or something! Get to it, Elon!

If you're serious about wanting to deengerize on a frequent basis, then have the electrician put in a separate cutoff switch instead of using the breaker. They aren't made to be used that way. If it's just like for vacations or something, then the breaker is fine.

The other idea is to use an enclosure for the EVSE that you can secure. Nice thing about that is that it also protects against vandalism.

Personally, I wouldn't bother, but you know you neighborhood better than we do.

 

[Tam]

...I only need to cool 650 sqft and maybe a newer unit can use less current?

I think so. I think your current heat pump is a luxurious one prepared for the apocalypse of the North Pole Vortex in Los Angeles.

Your current one has an auxiliary (backup) electric heater in case your heat pump can't deal with sub-zero F weather but you are in Los Angeles so that might be overkill.

I don't think Los Angeles winter needs an auxiliary electric heater for a standard heat pump. The record cold temperature in Los Angeles is 28F which modern heat pump has no problem working alone without the backup heater.

 

[Tam]

...As for someone coming and stealing my power... I might just have to get in the habit of flicking the breaker for it when I leave so that it's de-energized. I wish Tesla had a way to let you lock it to a car or something! Get to it, Elon!...

The current Gen 3 HPWC has wifi and I expect that you'll be able to control it once Tesla starts pushing firmware in the future for further functions such as selling and billing your charging electricity to other owners or just shut down your station at will.

But that might be a long future from now so as mentioned by @davewill, a less than $50 lockable conventional safety switch box next to your HPWC would do:



They have a hole both on the handle and the box that you can line them up and put a lock on.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Your current one has an auxiliary (backup) electric heater in case your heat pump can't deal with sub-zero F weather but you are in Los Angeles so that might be overkill.

I was thinking the same. OP will never see cold temperatures that the heat pump can't deal with for a long enough period to care about.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Thought these might be handy...

The first is our in-use 'normal' sized refrigerator, made in 1997... note the short peak at ~700 watts during a defrost... that's 6 amps, and might not even be long enough to trip the main breaker if that's the only unusually high thing going on. 6 amps is only like 8% of a 70 amp breaker's capacity, and you really should be considering it a five amp peak above a one amp typical draw. Its interesting and predictable that there's a long compressor-cycle just after the defrost to get stuff cold again.

The second was another refrigerator that was a bit smaller, I only left it here because it is another datapoint... again its a bit over a one amp load intermittently with a four amp load during defrost. Shows the same recovery cycle, too.

The third is a top load clothes washer running a short-cycle. You can see that it too peaks out at 6 amps or so while the spin cycle is starting up and the water is draining, but after 15-20 seconds it comes back down.

In case you are wondering, these are all from a Watts Up! meter that's no longer made. The software was only okay, but the meter was great.

 

[EfficientWatts]

I'm seeing a lot of agony trying to make it work as-is without using any intermediate devices. I know you're trying to make it work, but honestly I think DCC-10 (or DCC-12 which is a different version of DCC-10, but relies solely on the breaker on the main panel) is your best bet. You won't have to worry about going over 70A, and you'll get the max available charging power whenever there's room (30A setting/24A continuous on a 70A circuit), which I think will be more than what you may be able to get if you somehow have room to be able to install something directly).

 

[MetricExpanse]

You’re right about the amount of agonizing. I do have an electrician coming tomorrow and another one coming next week to really look at this in detail. Hopefully that will be the real load calculation that badly needs to be done at this point. If they suggest that tripping the breaker is probable, then I might just suck it up and go for a DCC unit, especially if it gives me faster charging.

There are some interesting points about the excessive heating I have. I wonder why the heating is so excessive! While I’m not super inclined to replace my HVAC, I hope at least the fact that it’s “overkill” can be factored into my load calculation and give me a bit more headroom!

Also good call on the DCC-12. I knew of the DCC-9, but the 12 seems quite perfect for my situation!

 

[Sophias_dad]

DCC-10 is like $1000, DCC-12 is $750, and both require installation. I'd much rather spend that $1200+ on a good chunk of a new HVAC unit, or just completely disconnect the 5kw strip heaters on the old unit for free.

I sort of doubt a new HVAC will dramatically improve the consumption unless it doesn't have strip heaters, which is a distinct possibility.

 

[MetricExpanse]

The current Gen 3 HPWC has wifi and I expect that you'll be able to control it once Tesla starts pushing firmware in the future for further functions such as selling and billing your charging electricity to other owners or just shut down your station at will.

But that might be a long future from now so as mentioned by @davewill, a less than $50 lockable conventional safety switch box next to your HPWC would do:



They have a hole both on the handle and the box that you can line them up and put a lock on.

I might have to consider something like this. Now, that's one nice thing about the fact that I'll be installing the Tesla Wall plug. It's not going to let anything but a Tesla work. From my observation, nobody else has a Tesla or any EV at all, so at least in the short term I would be safe from power theft. In the long run, probably not especially if Tesla continue to dominate. I might want to install something like this.

Another thing I'm thinking about... how easy is it for someone to steal the Tesla Wall Charger itself?

 

[MetricExpanse]

just completely disconnect the 5kw strip heaters on the old unit for free

Hmm, so you think the electrician would do that if I asked? Is it possible to single out that part of the system and disconnect it?

Also, those are some great plots! I just hope I don't get unlucky with those transients stacking up at the same time.

 

[Sophias_dad]

how easy is it for someone to steal the Tesla Wall Charger itself?

That'd be 'low'! But yes, it could be done, and very safely if you don't mind leaving the baseplate attached to the wall. Its four screws and the expensive part comes right off. Buy a new baseplate for $65 and you are the proud new owner of a wall charger. Note: it would not be all that difficult for Tesla to track down the stolen charger and disable it if it ever connects to wifi, but it might be difficult to get them to do that.

Even if you want to steal the wall connector baseplate it wouldn't be that hard. Snip the ends of the wires off one at a time, one right where it enters the terminal, the other an inch away. For extra-bonus points, put a wire nut or electrical tape on the ends.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Hmm, so you think the electrician would do that if I asked? Is it possible to single out that part of the system and disconnect it?

Also, those are some great plots! I just hope I don't get unlucky with those transients stacking up at the same time.

I'm sure the electrician would do it. There's gotta be a set of wires headed outside and another set headed inside, most likely both from the main panel. I almost wonder if the 30 amp breaker is ONLY for the strip heaters and the ac fan breaker handles the compressor and fan.

Or another perhaps even more likely solution is that the 'AC' breaker is mislabeled and serves the fan and strip heater, and the 'AC fan' breaker handles only the compressor. That would make more sense by far. In fact, looking at the earlier picture that MUST be what has happened. The nameplate says minimum ampacity is 29 amps and max breaker of 30 amps. Clearly that 30 amp breaker for AC is mismarked.

 

[MetricExpanse]

That'd be 'low'! But yes, it could be done, and very safely if you don't mind leaving the baseplate attached to the wall. Its four screws and the expensive part comes right off. Buy a new baseplate for $65 and you are the proud new owner of a wall charger. Note: it would not be all that difficult for Tesla to track down the stolen charger and disable it if it ever connects to wifi, but it might be difficult to get them to do that.

Even if you want to steal the wall connector baseplate it wouldn't be that hard. Snip the ends of the wires off one at a time, one right where it enters the terminal, the other an inch away. For extra-bonus points, put a wire nut or electrical tape on the ends.

Oof. Okay. I can't imagine that it'll be easy to find something that will be able to secure it either. A quick Google turns this up but I can't imagine it's going to add much security in terms of theft.

I almost wonder if the 30 amp breaker is ONLY for the strip heaters and the ac fan breaker handles the compressor and fan.

I think you are right that the 30A is for the compressor. I switched off the 30A breaker and turned on the cooling. Sure enough, the fan worked, but the air was not cold. Next I disabled the 15A breaker, and the fan went off. So the compressor is definitely wired up to the 30A breaker and the fan is on the 15A breaker.

I assume the heating strips are on the 30A circuit. But no idea how to test that idea, since (if I understand correctly) they only come on if the heat pump is insufficient to warm the air. No way I can create that situation.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I think you are right that the 30A is for the compressor. I switched off the 30A breaker and turned on the cooling. Sure enough, the fan worked, but the air was not cold. Next I disabled the 15A breaker, and the fan went off. So the compressor is definitely wired up to the 30A breaker and the fan is on the 15A breaker.

I assume the heating strips are on the 30A circuit. But no idea how to test that idea, since (if I understand correctly) they only come on if the heat pump is insufficient to warm the air. No way I can create that situation.

That's getting even more confusing. I was describing that the 30 amp is for the equipment you took the picture of, which looked like a fan. I've searched a bit for the model number, and have not come up with much.

 

[MetricExpanse]

That's getting even more confusing. I was describing that the 30 amp is for the equipment you took the picture of, which looked like a fan. I've searched a bit for the model number, and have not come up with much.

Yeah, I've been confused about that too. The only thing that feels like makes sense to me is that the unit with the nameplate is my heat pump. I mean, it does say "UL Listed Section Heat Pump" on it. It also has something about refrigerant on it too.

But the rest of the nameplate isn't making a whole lot of sense, nor is the fact that fan unit is missing a nameplate. Is this some kind of "combo" unit which has a heat pump and a fan all-in-one and so somehow the label is describing both devices?

 

[Sophias_dad]

I guess its possible that you have dual lines coming off from the AC breaker, one set to the indoor unit for the heat strips and one to the outdoor unit for the compressor. I'd say they could have the compressor indoors, but then they'd still have to run power to the outdoor unit for its fan. This wouldn't be entirely unreasonable because if you are running the lineset(piping) there's no reason not to have a relatively low-current cable with it.

BTW, I believe the 018 in the part name indicates its a 1.5 ton device(18000 btu/hr), a very small unit indeed. If you wanted to go to a mini-split thing(which you probably don't), I understand some of them will happily provide meaningful heating down to an outdoor temperature into negative single digits without any strip heaters.

 

[LTDHALL]

Put in a 50 amp and it will only charge at 35 amps. Which is half your capacity unless you have electric stove electric dryer and your air conditioner running at the same time the 35 amps when you're charging won't be a problem it would be best to charge at night when you're not using your electric stove or electric dryer.

 

[gdanielp]

I am all confused about how your electrical runs currently.

This is what I assume:

Meter with 70A main breaker that is 400' from parking space->home-main-panel that is 80' from parking space.

Are these options offered to you by electricians:

1) Meter upgraded to 100A main breaker-> then run 400' from there to the parking space without going through the home 70A main panel?

2) Meter with 70A main breaker->to home-main-panel ->new 20A breaker slot and run the wires 80' to parking space.

In general, an electrician needs to worry about how much electricity your whole home would use from A/C to EV charger. If they are not concerned, then there might be electrical fires.

There are different options to deal with your situation so each electrician may offer a different approach and different price.

Electrical upgrades are expensive. If you can afford it, I would go for 100A or even 200A upgrade. It's safer. That could get your EV to charge 30A or more on 240V outlet.

If not, stay the same with your current 70A system and limit your EV charging to 20A 240V outlet.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I think I read somewhere you could get a splitter and run your 110V adapter into 2 110v adapters

 

[justdave]

Your washer and dryer

Put in a 50 amp and it will only charge at 35 amps. Which is half your capacity unless you have electric stove electric dryer and your air conditioner running at the same time the 35 amps when you're charging won't be a problem it would be best to charge at night when you're not using your electric stove or electric dryer.

Makes sense to me and is similar to my setup. Put in a 50amp breaker and run a suitable cable to your parking. You have 40 amps dedicated to your washer and dryer so just don't do laundry at night and your car will charge just fine. You can schedule the charging to start at a certain time so should work very well.