Discussion: Powershare [V2X feature currently announced for Cybertruck]

[CrazyRabbit]

Will you be able to charge your powerwalls from your truck? I could then charge the truck from a small inverter generator and then dump that power from truck to powerwalls!

 

[BGbreeder]

Will you be able to charge your powerwalls from your truck? I could then charge the truck from a small inverter generator and then dump that power from truck to powerwalls!

Or not so small generator...48A@240V is 11,520W, plus reserve and that is a 15-20kW unit, and then you need fuel...

 

[mongo]

Will you be able to charge your powerwalls from your truck? I could then charge the truck from a small inverter generator and then dump that power from truck to powerwalls!

Per Lars on the Leno interview, Powershare only does V2H, so it won't charge ouout power while also connected to the grid (and possibly will not charge your Powerwalls when off grid)
Also, you could not charge the truck while also exporting power.

 

[h2ofun]

Per Lars on the Leno interview, Powershare only does V2H, so it won't charge ouout power while also connected to the grid (and possibly will not charge your Powerwalls when off grid)
Also, you could not charge the truck while also exporting power.

Seems for now, Ford, and now tesla, this stuff is marketing gimmicks.

 

[mongo]

Seems for now, Ford, and now tesla, this stuff is marketing gimmicks.

Nah, it's a valid backup solution (bigger than my genset), it's just not trying to be a full Powerwall.

 

[Jones1]

After going through Hurricane Harvey , Rita and the Texas Freeze. Give me the most backup storage options available.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

…
Mobile connector will likely never be bidirectional because the blades would be energized at 240 V and one cold potentially be electrocuted when they are unplugged and exposed. Even thought it would be possible to de-energize with software, it would be a stretch to get it UL listed.

It is perfectly permissible to install a wall connector with a plug and receptacle too….

 

[mongo]

Mobile connector will likely never be bidirectional because the blades would be energized at 240 V and one cold potentially be electrocuted when they are unplugged and exposed. Even thought it would be possible to de-energize with software, it would be a stretch to get it UL listed.

It would have a socket adapter with unique ID pin value (like how it differentiates 15, 20, 30, 50 Amp and does temperature monitoring) to enable power output.

 

[h2ofun]

Nah, it's a valid backup solution (bigger than my genset), it's just not trying to be a full Powerwall.

One PW is not enough do backup much, for very long, so if something is less than a PW, why use. Just buy a small cheap generator

 

[mongo]

One PW is not enough do backup much, for very long, so if something is less than a PW, why use. Just buy a small cheap generator

A full Powerwall in terms of functionality.
Cybertruck has the same power output as PW, higher charge rate, and higher total energy, but it isn't a grid tied load shifting solution.

 

[h2ofun]

A full Powerwall in terms of functionality.
Cybertruck has the same power output as PW, higher charge rate, and higher total energy, but it isn't a grid tied load shifting solution.

If I look at the amount of money I have spend for the generator, solar panels, power walls, EV stuff, etc. , then maintenance of these NO WAY did it EVER make sense to do this, no matter what electricity costs! I will never recover. And I have basically had no power outages since I got all this stuff.
So, if I have just purchased a few small generators, I would be way way ahead on money!!!

 

[cali8484]

If I look at the amount of money I have spend for the generator, solar panels, power walls, EV stuff, etc. , then maintenance of these NO WAY did it EVER make sense to do this, no matter what electricity costs! I will never recover. And I have basically had no power outages since I got all this stuff.
So, if I have just purchased a few small generators, I would be way way ahead on money!!!

But then you wouldn't have had all the fun

 

[mongo]

If I look at the amount of money I have spend for the generator, solar panels, power walls, EV stuff, etc. , then maintenance of these NO WAY did it EVER make sense to do this, no matter what electricity costs! I will never recover. And I have basically had no power outages since I got all this stuff.
So, if I have just purchased a few small generators, I would be way way ahead on money!!!

I hear ya. I have dual 200a panels, but my backup system is a manual connection 7.2kW portable generator I picked up for $700 on Black Friday.
Would like to add solar, but house orientation and topography are poor (on top on being in Michigan).

 

[Marktm250]

A full Powerwall in terms of functionality.
Cybertruck has the same power output as PW, higher charge rate, and higher total energy, but it isn't a grid tied load shifting solution.

If one the technical issue is "240 VAC split phase" bidirectionality via the J-1772 connection, with inherent bonding issues of neutral/ground, do you believe this can be resolved with an autotransformer at the wall connector, or maybe by the new cybertruck PCM in concert with the wall connector? AC coupling of the vehicle, powerwall, solar, and grid would sure seem to be technically feasible - but I'm surely not that versed in these systems

 

[mongo]

If one the technical issue is "240 VAC split phase" bidirectionality via the J-1772 connection, with inherent bonding issues of neutral/ground, do you believe this can be resolved with an autotransformer at the wall connector, or maybe by the new cybertruck PCM in concert with the wall connector? AC coupling of the vehicle, powerwall, solar, and grid would sure seem to be technically feasible - but I'm surely not that versed in these systems

For homes without existing Powerwalls, the Powershare version of Gateway has an auto transformer in it to handle split phase and the Powershare Wall Connector has the extra smarts to kick the Gateway on.
The limitation is that Cybertruck as a export device would need an interconnection agreement with the utility plus UL certification for a grid tie inverter.

 

[Jones1]

We Definitely needed a PowerShare Day presentation. Maybe Elon can get the Apple TV Foundation cast out for it. They could do the whole presentation. Better than waiting and not really knowing.

 

[miimura]

For homes without existing Powerwalls, the Powershare version of Gateway has an auto transformer in it to handle split phase and the Powershare Wall Connector has the extra smarts to kick the Gateway on.
The limitation is that Cybertruck as a export device would need an interconnection agreement with the utility plus UL certification for a grid tie inverter.

If Tesla only intends it to be a V2H backup system, then they don't need interconnection agreement because it can never feed the grid. You would just need a building permit to make sure that the Gateway is installed correctly and is up to code. In that respect, it's just like a backup generator. The utility only cares that it has a proper transfer switch so that the grid and the generator are never connected at the same time.

 

[mongo]

If Tesla only intends it to be a V2H backup system, then they don't need interconnection agreement because it can never feed the grid. You would just need a building permit to make sure that the Gateway is installed correctly and is up to code. In that respect, it's just like a backup generator. The utility only cares that it has a proper transfer switch so that the grid and the generator are never connected at the same time.

Right, and Tesla/ buyers avoid all that with the limited-to-V2H Powershare operating mode.

 

[Marktm250]

For homes without existing Powerwalls, the Powershare version of Gateway has an auto transformer in it to handle split phase and the Powershare Wall Connector has the extra smarts to kick the Gateway on.
The limitation is that Cybertruck as a export device would need an interconnection agreement with the utility plus UL certification for a grid tie inverter.

dcbel has promised full V2X with both CHAdeMO and CCS connections (DC based) for several years, but continue to seemingly struggle with "certification" issues. Not sure they'll stay in business to provide a true vehicle based microgrid. SolarEdge is promising a similar AC coupled system.
Does it appear to you that Tesla can provide both on grid energy arbitrage with solar and off grid backup technically? Arbitrage use case is an issue that Tesla may not want to address, but may be forced to by legislation (California). Maybe I'm too optimistic.

 

[mongo]

dcbel has promised full V2X with both CHAdeMO and CCS connections (DC based) for several years, but continue to seemingly struggle with "certification" issues. Not sure they'll stay in business to provide a true vehicle based microgrid. SolarEdge is promising a similar AC coupled system.
Does it appear to you that Tesla can provide both on grid energy arbitrage with solar and off grid backup technically? Arbitrage use case is an issue that Tesla may not want to address, but may be forced to by legislation (California). Maybe I'm too optimistic.

With Powershare? It seems like it. Solar to grid or charging based on pricing, and Cybertruck as backup. Though a Powerwall may be needed for seamless switchover during outages.