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Do I just sue Tesla? New record for getting Powned

Mark_T

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,290
1,127
UK
I'm just waiting to hear what Tesla billed for restoring the 12V to standard parts, as I'm betting there will be a bill for the labor...
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,912
2,209
SoCal
Something tells me reading through this thread that the quality of the service is commensurate with the quality of the customer's attitude. I'm sure OP was pretty upset off the bat, and I can't blame him, but just like getting pissed off and irate with a gate agent at an airport, no good will come out of it.

You probably think OP exhibited bad attitude toward Telsa service center workers from reading the title of this thread. But when I read thru the descriptions, I don't think it was the case. It seems OP was handling things relatively cool headed. Want him to pay for windshield... sure... Want to restore the battery to the original? Sure I will shop the original battery to you....

I am interested to see how much they charge OP for the 12v thing.
 
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Zooomer

Member
Apr 3, 2016
199
295
grand rapids mi
CONCLUSION!!!

I had an employee of mine drive me to Tesla today with notice that the vehicle was completed last night.
Show up, it's outside, I go in. 2 reps, guy takes over from girl I spoke to. Guy is super nice, listens to everything I eventually say and doesn't really have anything to say about it but 'sorry, we don't have the infrastructure yet to handle service'.
He tells me my bill is $1250 and I hand him my card. (Until this point I have no idea what to expect).
I give him my CC and he says 'oh wait, it updated. $1750. There's 500 labor to swap your battery out'
I tell him NO! I'm not paying. I'm just not. He goes and talks to someone else, comes back in a bit. 'yeah, that was a mistake. $1250'
I give him my card again but get no paperwork, sign nothing, he never asked for ID. I could have stole someone's car or card unless they have my pic online which I doubt.

I leave with 69%, charge at a stop to make it home. Air leaks I complained about are fixed but there are two new small ones in door trim which I'll handle locally.

I did make sure I got my old parts back which were in the vehicle.
I pull into work, open a service bay and pull in. Old Battery measures 12.8 volts.
I swap it out in 15 min to EXACTLY how it was when I brought them the car.
Everything works, everything works just fine.

Tesla service in Chicago just lied and tried to scam (did out of 1250 kind of) but at least I have my baby back....
 

Zooomer

Member
Apr 3, 2016
199
295
grand rapids mi
GetAttachmentThumbnail

Spoke too soon. Doesn't look like the windshield is sealed. FML
GetAttachmentThumbnail
 

ahkahn

Active Member
Jun 22, 2017
1,089
1,481
Houston, TX (formerly Chicagoland)
CONCLUSION!!!

I had an employee of mine drive me to Tesla today with notice that the vehicle was completed last night.
Show up, it's outside, I go in. 2 reps, guy takes over from girl I spoke to. Guy is super nice, listens to everything I eventually say and doesn't really have anything to say about it but 'sorry, we don't have the infrastructure yet to handle service'.
He tells me my bill is $1250 and I hand him my card. (Until this point I have no idea what to expect).
I give him my CC and he says 'oh wait, it updated. $1750. There's 500 labor to swap your battery out'
I tell him NO! I'm not paying. I'm just not. He goes and talks to someone else, comes back in a bit. 'yeah, that was a mistake. $1250'
I give him my card again but get no paperwork, sign nothing, he never asked for ID. I could have stole someone's car or card unless they have my pic online which I doubt.

I leave with 69%, charge at a stop to make it home. Air leaks I complained about are fixed but there are two new small ones in door trim which I'll handle locally.

I did make sure I got my old parts back which were in the vehicle.
I pull into work, open a service bay and pull in. Old Battery measures 12.8 volts.
I swap it out in 15 min to EXACTLY how it was when I brought them the car.
Everything works, everything works just fine.

Tesla service in Chicago just lied and tried to scam (did out of 1250 kind of) but at least I have my baby back....

Which Chicago location?
 
Mar 1, 2015
253
365
Melbourne
Old Battery measures 12.8 volts. I swap it out in 15 min
GetAttachmentThumbnail
Doesn't look like the windshield is sealed.
GetAttachmentThumbnail
Seriously? The first thing you do when you get your car back is put the Li 12V battery back in after all the grief Tesla gave you? You couldn't, like, you know...wait for a day or two?

Hope you at least put the Tesla original 12V battery back in before it goes back for more service.
 

rdskill

Member
Apr 18, 2019
170
110
South Florida
hmmm.. pretty sure Li-Ion batteries have a very different charge, absorption and float voltages than lead-acid or AGM batteries. I was under the impression the OEM battery was Lead-Acid, but I could be wrong.

Spent years cruising a sailboat and you live, eat and breath batteries. The battery charging/monitoring settings were all dependent on the type of battery you used. No way could you mix/change batteries once the system was setup.

A Li-Ion battery is going to be a game changer to a system set for a lead-acid battery. That would have to be a very special Li-Ion battery to mimic the voltages of a lead-acid battery. Sounds interesting.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,671
3,277
mtn view, ca
hmmm.. pretty sure Li-Ion batteries have a very different charge, absorption and float voltages than lead-acid or AGM batteries. I was under the impression the OEM battery was Lead-Acid, but I could be wrong.

in fact, they do.

bms systems are complex and unless the car 'knows' that the thing its going to maintain charge and monitor is now different, this is not a good engineering design!

weight or no weight, I think its beyond stupid to do this.

its your car, but I don't think you fully understand how computerized the car is and how balanced systems are.

anything 'weird' about that battery that the car detects and you are going to have to spend more time and money fighting tesla over it.

an older 'dumb' car may tolerate different battery chemistry better. this is not an older dumb car.

not sure what to say about a customer who re-installs something that just cost him over a kilobuck in money and more in wasted time, for no good reason at all.
 

Mark_T

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,290
1,127
UK
On the one-hand, yes, rushing to put the non-Tesla pack in before making 100% sure all was fixed feels just like the first time around with doing it on a brand new car with known faults so removing it before returning the car for more work would seem like an essential move.

On the other-hand don't rush to condemn the pack the OP is using, he isn't just slapping in the wrong chemistry and hoping... This is a pack designed for Tesla use with its own BMS so it handles the fact that the car tries to charge it as though it was lead-acid.

https://www.ohmmu.com/
 

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
689
620
Northeast USA
Still, probably would've made sense for the OP to at least make sure the issues he had with the car were fully sorted before again putting the aftermarket battery into the car. Only creates more work on his part because he has to remove it again before bringing the car back in for service.
 
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Zooomer

Member
Apr 3, 2016
199
295
grand rapids mi
Any further issues I'll handle on my own with local shops. I'm not going back to Chicago. Comments on the battery are just a train wreck. There's nothing complicated about the 12v electrical system. Nothing special, nothing Tesla only, no high tech computer. Just because the brand Tesla is on it and it's an electric car, people are fearing themselves into issues that don't exist. Lead acid batteries are extremely inconsistent. You cannot monitor them like li ion stuff. It's just a dummy charger and a circuit just making sure voltage is correct. No different than any ICE vehicle.
 
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Wooloomooloo

Member
Jun 29, 2018
820
1,808
Brooklyn, NY
Enlighten me. What facts don't I have?

I'm sorry me saying 'better regen' offends you. The statement is true. You get better regen performance. EVDRVN maybe you're angry because you misread the post and are arguing against something I didn't say. Go back to page one. I did not say 'more' regen. I said 'better regen'

I can't bear to read any more of this without saying something... :D

Better regen (based on a lighter vehicle) is still objectively incorrect. Regen may be more effective at braking and stopping the car if it's lighter (which you clarified later) but the regenerative part if that (as opposed to the braking part of that) is not the part that gets 'better' based on lower weight. If anything you get less 'generation' on regen braking with a lighter vehicle than a heavier one. The comments saying you were not clear are fair, and suggesting someone's anger is getting the better of them is just trolling.

The key to pedant-ism is being both precise and correct. More precision means more chance of being wrong, which is why most people on the internet argue in vagaries so they can shift the intent of that they say to conform to new facts. /takes-a-bow :cool:

I'm also having trouble with your opening post and how this conversation has gone. Tesla service isn't the best, no argument there. But if your car was leaking in cold air from the moment you drove it out of the SC, you should have taken it back immediately. Anything leaking air through the main windshield is surely a safety issue.

Instead you drove it 3 hours, decided the car was good enough to change the battery immediately. Based on your own conclusion near the end of this thread, some issues were fixed, some new ones seemed to have appeared (or they were there before and you didn't notice, given how bad the other issue was) so it sound like the car is literally a lemon. You have a lot of experience with Tesla and with cars in general, surely it would have been much better to reject the car and get another one.

Tesla charging you over $1000 for defects on a brand new car is honestly outrageous, but the judgement calls you made gave them the opportunity to do that. Returning it the same day would not have done so.
 
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Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,912
2,209
SoCal
Tesla charging you over $1000 for defects on a brand new car is honestly outrageous

The $1250 was to replace the cracked windshield. When OP drove the car out, there was no crack, just a problem with wind leak from seals. My new Tesla's windshield also developed a crack after 1 week. It was just sitting at the parking lot and a 3 foot crack appears when I got back to the car after work. Tesla said something must have hit it and I can't argue against that so I also have to pay for the windshield replacement on a new car. Luckily I got $100 glass only deductible on my insurance and $50 per day loss of use, so Tesla has it for 2 days and I paid nothing. So if OP has a glass-buy-back option on his insurance, he maybe able to get that money back if it is not too late.
 

Wooloomooloo

Member
Jun 29, 2018
820
1,808
Brooklyn, NY
The $1250 was to replace the cracked windshield. When OP drove the car out, there was no crack, just a problem with wind leak from seals. My new Tesla's windshield also developed a crack after 1 week. It was just sitting at the parking lot and a 3 foot crack appears when I got back to the car after work. Tesla said something must have hit it and I can't argue against that so I also have to pay for the windshield replacement on a new car. Luckily I got $100 glass only deductible on my insurance and $50 per day loss of use, so Tesla has it for 2 days and I paid nothing. So if OP has a glass-buy-back option on his insurance, he maybe able to get that money back if it is not too late.

You're right and it might not be worth the fight; although I will say a crack caused by an impact Vs a crack caused by stress around the frame or a defect, look very different and it's easy to tell the difference.
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,912
2,209
SoCal
You're right and it might not be worth the fight; although I will say a crack caused by an impact Vs a crack caused by stress around the frame or a defect, look very different and it's easy to tell the difference.

I don't see a star burst entry to the crack so to my eyes it was just a spontaneous crack. Tesla said the technician saw an entry point. There were quite few people posted about windshield/glass roof crack mysteriously appeared just after delivery on this forum. OP car already got problem with glass seals, so some structural integrity was compromised. Driving long distance with that could have caused the crack.
 
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mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,018
39,039
Michigan
Maybe you should go back an re-read what he wrote, he never said that Tesla is blaming the battery for the windshield and wind noise/water leak, at least that I saw. Tesla said that the 12v system blew a fuse and they are blaming your battery for that.

Any further issues I'll handle on my own with local shops. I'm not going back to Chicago. Comments on the battery are just a train wreck. There's nothing complicated about the 12v electrical system. Nothing special, nothing Tesla only, no high tech computer. Just because the brand Tesla is on it and it's an electric car, people are fearing themselves into issues that don't exist. Lead acid batteries are extremely inconsistent. You cannot monitor them like li ion stuff. It's just a dummy charger and a circuit just making sure voltage is correct. No different than any ICE vehicle.

Incorrect. On any ICE vehicle, the 12V battery is the power source. Removing the negative cable cuts power to everything. On a Tesla, the HV pack is the power source and the 12V battery is a buffer. The HV pack charges the 12V battery when needed. As such, removing the negative 12V cable from the battery does not necessarily disable the entire system. If the HV pack was charging the 12V battery when the cable was disconnected, the 12V system could remain active. If the 12V positive cable is then removed and allowed to touch the chassis, it will blow a fuse.

The HV system must be disabled before working on the 12V side of things. This is the proper way to do it.
 

Wooloomooloo

Member
Jun 29, 2018
820
1,808
Brooklyn, NY
I don't see a star burst entry to the crack so to my eyes it was just a spontaneous crack. Tesla said the technician saw an entry point. There were quite few people posted about windshield/glass roof crack mysteriously appeared just after delivery on this forum. OP car already got problem with glass seals, so some structural integrity was compromised. Driving long distance with that could have caused the crack.

Right exactly, agreed - another good reason to return the car immediately that has an obvious problem rather than have other issues arise where the root cause can be challenged.
 

Zooomer

Member
Apr 3, 2016
199
295
grand rapids mi
I"m not sure why we're talking so much about the windshield. I agreed to pay for it. I didn't fight about that. It's easily plausible that it got a stone chip or something external caused it to crack. The issue was the roof glass. I originally thought it was the windshield but I brought it in and the local shop said it was the roof. It took me some time to understand the wind blowing in the car issue. It was a new car, I was excited, driving home 3 hours. I had flown into Chi. It's not like I had an easy option to turn around. They wouldn't have given me another car. The buying experience in itself was bad. They weren't responding to emails, they said they didn't' have payment when I got there, kind of a *sugar* show.

In terms of the battery, I didn't think sealing the glass was a big deal or would require them messing with the 12v system. But they did and lied about the battery. I get the policies of not messing with aftermarket parts. The problem is that they disconnected the battery, then refused to reconnect it. It was one wire! If you didn't want to connect it, you shouldn't have disconnected it. To disconnect it, lie and say it fried the electrical system, refuse to reconnect it, threaten me with $100/day, tell me I have to flat bed it out. That's the problem. The thread turning into a dumpster fire about why I changed the battery and whether it's compatible are stupid. The battery is fine, they just didn't connect the ground wire they removed and wouldn't give me a picture of said wire either. They gave me a picture of the fuse, which wasn't blown proving they lied about that. I reinstalled the battery right away coming back to prove that the battery was indeed fine. And it was so people here can shut up about it being incompatible or not working, etc.
 

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