Do I just sue Tesla? New record for getting Powned

[ElectricLove]

Hi Zoomer

This is Sean from Ohmmu Energy. First off we want to thank you for supporting us and buying one of our batteries back when we were “BattMobile Batteries” - folks like you got us to where we are today and we don’t take that for granted! I just started reading through this thread and learning about your saga with Tesla service on your new Raven S. Really disappointed to hear that Tesla is giving you a hard time and passing blame on roof wind noise and a windshield crack to the 12V battery. That’s obviously absurd.

As others have stated in this thread, we all know it isn’t logical from a technical standpoint to blame the 12V battery for any of these issues and the Magnusson-Moss Act was put in place for this exact situation. Tesla has the legal obligation to take care of your vehicle’s problems under their warranty. The only component they aren’t obliged to warrant is your 12V battery itself, and we, of course, would cover that for you if it failed to work.

We stand behind our batteries 100%: we have nearly 1,000 in use and our batteries are proving themselves — we have had zero units die prematurely!

I want to help; please let me reach out to Tesla on your behalf. Please pm me or use our web-chat feature at www.ohmmu.com/support if you can share the names of the service center employees with whom you have spoken.

Thank you again for your faith in our product; we won’t let you down!

 

[MP3Mike]

Really disappointed to hear that Tesla is giving you a hard time and passing blame on roof wind noise and a windshield crack to the 12V battery. That’s obviously absurd.

Maybe you should go back an re-read what he wrote, he never said that Tesla is blaming the battery for the windshield and wind noise/water leak, at least that I saw. Tesla said that the 12v system blew a fuse and they are blaming your battery for that.

 

[Zooomer]

Tesla has finally responded. Here's what they said. Sounds like they are making progress although the car doesn't seem to be ready yet. I'm feeling a little better as it seems like I'm on a path to getting my vehicle back. the note about the 'aftermarket foam? I put a piece of foam in the rear window to stop winter air from blowing in while driving it.

-Installed correct Tesla Spec parts that had been shipped by client. 12 volt battery at 12.38 volts and does not appear to be damaged by discharge (we do not know history of battery charge as it was uninstalled from vehicle). Reinstalled correct negative battery cable and corrected improper grounding point. Reinstall proper battery B+/B- cable clamps, rerouted cables correctly and install provided 12-volt battery. Reinstalled battery retaining bracket and missing mounting hardware. Paint marked all connections and mounting hardware post torque checking. Retimed all 4-window glasses and confirmed vehicle operation. Also advised client not to modify any portion of vehicle electronics.


-Door seal replaced, need test drive for wind noise. – not sitting properly, looks like there was aftermarket foam seal on the inside of the car that was preventing this

- The roof glass installation is in process. Fitment was off.

-We inspected the side pillar glass side pillar glass and the placement is within specification.

Insanely stupid thread. Lower weight in a car produces LESS regen, period end of story. Nothing else is relevant related to the weight debate all things constant, If you remove 100 pound soff an EV it will get less REGEN. How fast it stops has noting to do with how much REGEN is produced in terms of more regen from less weight which is wrong. Less weight will be more efficient and will allow you to stop sooner for the same stopping power it has nothing to do with more regen. Let's beat the horse into glue now.

EVDRVN, you posted I don't have the facts and you have 20 years of EV experience. I'm asking you now for the 3rd time what facts I need to have? Why won't you give them to me?

2nd. You're engaging in a STRAWMAN debate. No one but you is making a claim about MORE or LESS regen. You've created a statement I didn't make in order to attack it. I never said you get more regen. I said better. There's a huge difference.

Now if you look at the regen gate thread people are angry about Tesla reducing the regen. According to you this isn't true. You get the same regen no matter what Tesla sets the kW to because the energy is the same, you just need more distance to get it. That's YOUR words. So attack this guy for his post because he's not getting LESS regen, he just needs more space to get it. Attack everyone on the forums who got mad after the update for saying the regen got 'worse' or for saying they got less regen. Less regen on 2019.40.2?

I said 'better regen' Why? because you use the brakes less and regen more. Because the vehicle stopping faster under regen is considered 'better'. Because there is no way to improve the performance of the regen save for lightening the car or reprogramming the software.

Since we're nitpicking details I should add this. Look at the first picture I posted. See the marker on the battery? It's 9.5#. You save more than 10#, it's closer to 20 on the older cars and closer to 15 on Raven's which use a smaller battery.

In Ohio, no written estimate or initialed form from you waiving written estimate? Don’t pay!

I don't know if it' matters but car is in Illinois.

Hi Zoomer

This is Sean from Ohmmu Energy. First off we want to thank you for supporting us and buying one of our batteries back when we were “BattMobile Batteries” - folks like you got us to where we are today and we don’t take that for granted! I just started reading through this thread and learning about your saga with Tesla service on your new Raven S. Really disappointed to hear that Tesla is giving you a hard time and passing blame on roof wind noise and a windshield crack to the 12V battery. That’s obviously absurd.

Thank you again for your faith in our product; we won’t let you down!

Appreciate it and LOVE LOVE your product!

 

[RayW]

Damn, this thread went down a lot of rabbit holes....

I think everyone missed the point -- Over the past year Tesla service has become completely unacceptable for a $100K car.

I love the car, but buying another one will be a tough decision for me.

Signed,
I drank the kool-aid, and now have a handover

 

[MP3Mike]

Reinstalled correct negative battery cable and corrected improper grounding point. Reinstall proper battery B+/B- cable clamps, rerouted cables correctly and install provided 12-volt battery. Reinstalled battery retaining bracket and missing mounting hardware.

Wow! It sounds like you did a lot more than a drop-in replacement of the battery...

 

[ZsoZso]

Wow! It sounds like you did a lot more than a drop-in replacement of the battery...

What I simply can not understand is the logic / thinking of OP in the following process:
1. OP picks up a new car and notices a defect immediately while driving on the way home.
2. OP attempts to contact Tesla to get the defect fixed, but unable to talk to anyone on the phone, app gives appointment 1 month out.
3. OP replaces 12V battery on his new defective car before getting it repaired!
4. OP takes car in for repair 1 month after delivery, then trouble escalates as Tesla service tech notice the after-market 12V battery
...

Why would anybody proceed with step #3 on a defective car that he/she wants repaired under warranty !?!?
It simply makes zero sense!

I am not defending Tesla, delivery of a 100k vehicle with such defects is awful, and I also believe they are over-reacting on the 12V battery. However, step #3 from OP was clearly asking for trouble.

 

[Zooomer]

In Ohio, no written estimate or initialed form from you waiving written estimate? Don’t pay!

3. OP replaces 12V battery on his new defective car before getting it repaired!
[/QUOTE]
Lesson learned. My only defense is
-Said battery was in my old Tesla which was serviced several times w/o issue. Headlight LED 2x, cooled seat 2x, AP camera. No issues.
-My problem was related to glass not being sealed. I did not consider them messing with the battery to fix it. Hindsight 20/20
-I changed out LED lights in the car, added wireless charging, added little cubby below screen. Should I have removed those too?
-I went on a road trip shortly after receiving vehicle. I wanted the new battery in there to improve the trip.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I think everyone missed the point -- Over the past year Tesla service has become completely unacceptable for a $100K car.

That's probably because we knew that before we read the thread.

Heck it took Elon MONTHS to realize Tesla reps were refusing to refund accidental FSD orders because they made it too easy to accidentally order FSD using their app.

We also know from the fact that people don't know who to contact when some major issue happens that impacts a fair number of people (like the accidental FSD orders). There isn't anyone at Tesla to contact? Before the Model 3 there was a Service person at Tesla who could be reached on TMC. He would go into threads where someone had a serious problem, and then a week or two later the problem would suddenly be resolved. There also used to be email addresses of some VP (or someone high up) at Tesla to contact if you did have some major issue. But, all that seems to be gone. It's been replaced by the Elon twitter lottery. That's basically Tesla support at this point.

Tesla is really only getting away with this vacuum because most people don't encounter any issues. Or just minor things where the mobile service is fine.

But, people like the OP get completely screwed over.

There is a lot of things I would have done differently than the OP, but it still sucks that he had to go through that ordeal. Especially paying money for something that wasn't his fault at all (the glass). And, the $100 daily idle charge is a bit silly too. Why are they charging idle fees for a $100K vehicle. WTF?

This is also why Porsche can charge $150K for a Taycan, and rich people won't blink at the 200 mile range. They'll be "Thank god I don't have to go through Tesla service anymore"

 

[Ostrichsak]

What I simply can not understand is the logic / thinking of OP in the following process:
1. OP picks up a new car and notices a defect immediately while driving on the way home.
2. OP attempts to contact Tesla to get the defect fixed, but unable to talk to anyone on the phone, app gives appointment 1 month out.
3. OP replaces 12V battery on his new defective car before getting it repaired!
4. OP takes car in for repair 1 month after delivery, then trouble escalates as Tesla service tech notice the after-market 12V battery
...

Why would anybody proceed with step #3 on a defective car that he/she wants repaired under warranty !?!?
It simply makes zero sense!

I am not defending Tesla, delivery of a 100k vehicle with such defects is awful, and I also believe they are over-reacting on the 12V battery. However, step #3 from OP was clearly asking for trouble.

That's a pretty good point actually. I tend to not modify cars at all while they're under warranty (aside from basics that I know can't result in denied warranty claims of big ticket items later) let alone modify anything even remotely in the area of a known issue. Like I said a loooooong time ago in this thread: Telsa service is the worst. That being said, this activity doesn't lead me to believe that the OP is 100% in the right either. By replacing the new 12v battery with another 12v batter when he KNEW the 12v system had issues he chose to set himself up for the potential of them blaming his modification. From Tesla's standpoint, I'd have a hard time doing free work on something that was modified after Tesla built it.

 

[Zooomer]

By replacing the new 12v battery with another 12v batter when he KNEW the 12v system had issues he chose to set himself up for the potential of them blaming his modification.

THERE ARE NO ISSUES WITH THE 12V SYSTEM!!!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

That's a pretty good point actually. I tend to not modify cars at all while they're under warranty (aside from basics that I know can't result in denied warranty claims of big ticket items later) let alone modify anything even remotely in the area of a known issue. Like I said a loooooong time ago in this thread: Telsa service is the worst. That being said, this activity doesn't lead me to believe that the OP is 100% in the right either. By replacing the new 12v battery with another 12v batter when he KNEW the 12v system had issues he chose to set himself up for the potential of them blaming his modification. From Tesla's standpoint, I'd have a hard time doing free work on something that was modified after Tesla built it.

For normal people like you, and I that's really good advice. It doesn't really matter who the company is. There is always the potential for blaming the end users actions. So why risk it when its still under warranty?

But, the OP works in after market mods as far as I understand it. Hence all the imaginary benefits of a different battery. The whole "improve my trip" is just rubbish.

Now I'm not saying that the after market battery isn't a good idea for older Model S/X vehicles in an attempt at longevity of the battery. That's a known weakness. I don't know if the Raven refresh still has that weakness or whether they fixed it. In any case I think it's entirely pointless, and wasteful to replace the 12VDC battery on a brand new Tesla.

 

[Need]

I think the lesson learnt here is that if you take your Tesla into service for any reason, uninstall all your aftermarket stuff first so you don't get blamed!

 

[ArizonaP85]

ArizonaP85 said: ↑
In Ohio, no written estimate or initialed form from you waiving written estimate? Don’t pay!
I don't know if it' matters but car is in Illinois.

I was trying to help mmmk who had service problems in Toledo and quoted his post on page 2 of this thread.

 

[ACA Man]

THERE ARE NO ISSUES WITH THE 12V SYSTEM!!!

Exactly.

 

[P85DBeast]

I think the lesson learnt here is that if you take your Tesla into service for any reason, uninstall all your aftermarket stuff first so you don't get blamed!

That's the problem. If I purchase a 100k+ vehicle I want to be able to mod it to my liking. I understand some things void warranty because you are risking the electronics of the car (this includes ICE vehicles as well), but if I want to do some upgrades I should be able to with ZERO fuss from the manufacturer. That's just my honest opinion.

 

[linux-works]

I think the lesson learnt here is that if you take your Tesla into service for any reason, uninstall all your aftermarket stuff first so you don't get blamed!

my last car audio install (my own, 16 years ago on my passat) I put all the 'amp stuff' on a single carpet covered board that went the full width of the trunk and was fitted to sit right behind the rear passenger seats, in the trunk. all the connections (power, line-in, amp-out to spkrs, control) were on a single side and went to plugs (if possible) or screw connectors. the whole idea was that I could remove ALL the goodies (not the ones in front, though) at once, in case I had to park extended periods of time at airports or take the car in for service (more than a few days). or even if I wanted to work on the audio 'board' and do it on a work bench instead of breaking my back, doing it in-place in the trunk!

car batteries - that's a bit heavy for me. but the amp, preamp, digital EQ/XO, line drivers, all that fit on one board and while it was heavy, it was ONE board to remove or reinstall.

just an anecdote. I did want an easy option to remove that stuff, for when 'others' (including dealers) didn't need to see certain things.

 

[TripleTrucker]

Looks like in addition to battery swap, cables were changed as well as grounding points altered. I'd lean toward the car stereo guy screwing something up before the Tesla tech.

 

[EVDRVN]

"2nd. You're engaging in a STRAWMAN debate. No one but you is making a claim about MORE or LESS regen. You've created a statement I didn't make in order to attack it. I never said you get more regen. I said better. There's a huge difference."

Show me how your regen got better. Better regen is MORE regen. Better acceleration is MORE acceleration. The strawman argument is yours.

Use the correct application of terminology, You do not get more, better, etc regen you get less or poorer regen with less weight, As I said you may stop sooner but that is not "better regen" it's better braking, Your use of "KW" shows you do not understand how to apply proper terminology and you should have just corrected yourself on both accounts and moved on. Those are the facts, Regen is not measured in how fast it can stop the car it is measured on how much power it can generate, You implied the 12V battery change gave you better regen which is nonsense as they are not the same measure. Others have pointed out that you get better overall efficiency which is correct as less energy is expended in moving less weight. Better regen means more kW from the traction motor. Yes your car does stop better now in a way that is so insignificant in the net efficiency that it would take you about 20 years to pay off the battery from that measure alone.

The real benefit of a battery like this are deeper cycling, less maintenance, and lower weight if you are really shaving pounds in many areas as well as potential longevity due to the negative effects of cycling poor quality lead batteries. Of course in your case it caused you a lot of hassle at the dealership. Enjoy your better regen

 

[ucmndd]

This absurd thread is just too absurd to leave alone.

Show me how your regen got better. Better regen is MORE regen. Better acceleration is MORE acceleration. The strawman argument is yours.

So, I’ll ask you too. How much extra weight do you carry around in YOUR car in the name of “better” regen?

 

[EVDRVN]

This absurd thread is just too absurd to leave alone.



So, I’ll ask you too. How much extra weight do you carry around in YOUR car in the name of “better” regen?

None, as that would be idiotic, However more weight produces more regen but unless you are only going downhill it is less overall efficiency. I put sand bags in my trunk at the top of hills and toss a the bottom. Still does not change the term "better regen" but certainly is valid for "better efficiency" with less weight The horse is now in a vapor form and headed to a fog soon but did you know horses get "better regen" when they are not wet due to lower weight? I see my regen get better on the dash when my 12V battery is full as well but the added electrons make it heavier so I get "worse regen" It's a weight thing in case you did not know but my 12V battery has very high MWaH's and can power the car when the traction pack is over filled with excessive regen, It's a parallel system with a mini contactor and ground isolation. I'lll be selling them soon for $489 plus shipping, www.beteregenforall.com. Carrying a helium tank also gets one better regen.