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Do/ when will we get NoA in the UK?
- Thread starter ben_c
- Start date
Scared the ever-loving out of me when it automatically left the M4 for the M25 the first time it happened. It indicated itself - moments before starting the lane-change. Has been doing it repeatedly on other M4 junctions - J13, J15 - as well as some on the M27. This was all on 2019.20.4.2 (I might be a point-revision off there but certainly a bug-fix for .20.4.x)
In fairness, I haven't driven it for a couple of weeks and I've had 2019.24.4 pushed to it since I last drove those roads so perhaps I got lucky (unlucky) with a test-fix?
Wow! I'm pretty sure this is illegal under current EU legislation on self-driving. I'm not sure what the implications are for Tesla, but they could get themselves into some serious trouble with this update. I haven't experienced it myself yet, but I haven't had much chance to use NoA over the last couple of weeks.
Copied from the FSD in EU thread:-
Steering restriction & 5-second rule are United Nations regs adopted by the EU and other countries - UN/ECE rule 79 - Transport - UNECE
Here are the relevant sections for Lane Change:- 5.6.4.6.2.
The lane change procedure requires, and shall start immediately after, a manual activation by the driver of the direction indicator to the intended side for the lane change. --[So it can't take the turn-indicator as the initiation of a delayed manoeuvre - needs to start immediately]
5.6.4.6.4. The lane change manoeuvre shall not be initiated before a period of 3.0 seconds and not later than 5.0 seconds after the deliberate action of the driver described in paragraph 5.6.4.6.2. above. --[so it's actually only got a 2 second window to initiate the lane change manoeuvre]
5.6.4.6.5. The lane change manoeuvre shall be completed in less than 5 seconds
5.6.4.6.8.1. The lane change procedure shall be suppressed automatically by the system when at least one of the following situations occurs before the lane change manoeuvre has started:
--The lane change manoeuvre has not commenced within 5.0 seconds following the deliberate action of the driver described in paragraph 5.6.4.6.2.
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I guess they'd argue technically it's not a lane change.
Assuming the amendments go through it's only a short term problem anyway.
http://www.unece.org//fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2019/wp29grva/ECE-TRANS-WP29-GRVA-2019-27e.pdf
Assuming the amendments go through it's only a short term problem anyway.
http://www.unece.org//fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2019/wp29grva/ECE-TRANS-WP29-GRVA-2019-27e.pdf
Yeah, I guess it could avoid the lane-change regs by saying it's exiting the motorway, no/low chance of needing to take account of cars in the 'lane' you're going into.
Also, it could be argued, that if tesla jump directly to no-confirmation NOA in the EU/UK, the regs above don't apply
see:-
1.2. This Regulation does not apply to:
1.2.3. Steering systems exhibiting the functionality defined as ACSF of Category B2, D or E in paragraphs 2.3.4.1.3., 2.3.4.1.5., or 2.3.4.1.6., respectively, until specific provisions are introduced in this Regulation.
2.3.4.1.6. "ACSF of Category E" means a function which is initiated/activated by the driver and which can continuously determine the possibility of a manoeuvre (e.g. lane change) and complete these manoeuvres for extended periods without further driver command/confirmation.
Also, it could be argued, that if tesla jump directly to no-confirmation NOA in the EU/UK, the regs above don't apply
see:-
1.2. This Regulation does not apply to:
1.2.3. Steering systems exhibiting the functionality defined as ACSF of Category B2, D or E in paragraphs 2.3.4.1.3., 2.3.4.1.5., or 2.3.4.1.6., respectively, until specific provisions are introduced in this Regulation.
2.3.4.1.6. "ACSF of Category E" means a function which is initiated/activated by the driver and which can continuously determine the possibility of a manoeuvre (e.g. lane change) and complete these manoeuvres for extended periods without further driver command/confirmation.
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So are we saying it only works automatically for motorway exits and not while changing lanes to overtake slower traffic etc?
Yeah, that's corroborated by today's TeslaDriver video
lane changes require interaction, exits do not
Okay, I see now. Not a lot of use then. As the video shows, the whole thing is really just a novelty. I must admit I do let AP drive the car when I'm bored just to see what it can and can't do, but it's often easier just to drive it yourself unless you are simply cruising along the motorway (it's real use case). As shown in the video, it's also irritating when auto-lane change refuses to work on some dual carriageways or specific parts of them. I'm a little surprised that he appeared to have only just noticed that it slows automatically when approaching roundabouts. Mine has been doing that for at least a year, although it doesn't work on every roundabout and it isn't consistent in its braking point, sometimes a bit late and sometimes way too early.
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